new show on the dutchman

[Goose MKII]

Yeah, my Boy Scout troop built that in 1971 for our "Order of the Arrow" inductions. Come on people, lets try and get serious here. This TV show is taking advantage of the guys who "star" in it - and us. It is completely contrived and the thing that stands out the most to me is that A) they've killed two snakes for absolutely no reason, and B) none of this is being filmed back in the Superstition range itself. They all wear day packs, none of them look like they could hike five-miles (let alone a full day in the Superstition wilderness) without hurting themselves, and now "Black Hands?" Come on! I watch it because I want to see who gets on Frank's nerves next, and to see if one of them accidentally shoots another cast member while playing with their guns!

Hahaha!!!
That's just too funny!

 

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[Hal Croves]

This is the real medicine wheel located in the superstitions!

View attachment 1126439

Sorry to sound ignorant. What makes that a medicine wheel? I mean is this an archeological interpretation of the stones or an educated guess? It's a symbol that I have seen used before but not used as a medicine wheel. In the sense of healing.

The spokes or arms don't by chance align to the four directions do they?

The word "medicine" really needs to be defined as understood by those who adapted it to describe their beliefs. "Big medicine" vs. white medicine. Not quite the same thing.

 

[Aric]

You just described the mine and cabin ive been working with. My mine does face north west,and the cabin faces west. May I ask where you got your info. You can pm me if you dont want to share it publicly.
I just find it odd your info would match so closely. We may have info we can share that might help us both.

I joined T-net to share all of my information. I have no need to hide what I have been told and what I know to be known as fact. My source of information is as close as I can get to the family Waltz. I'm not from the USA. I'm from a little town of Oberschwandorf, Germany. I moved to Arizona (legally) so I could come and look for the Waltz mine. I'm looking for a foundation of a stone house on the western edge of the Superstition Mountains. I have been told that the entrance to mine is inside the stone house that faced the northwest. I think it's possible the foundation would still be there.

 

[UncleMatt]

You can tell its a medicine wheel from the prescription on the rocks from the medicine man!

 

[bjw]

What about the dreaded "Black Hand"? Quick everyone run for your life! Did Woody wet himself? And Frank, well the cigar does lend an air of righteous to his presence.

bruce

 

[bjw]

Indeed!
bruce

 

[Hal Croves]

What about the dreaded "Black Hand"? Quick everyone run for your life! Did Woody wet himself? And Frank, well the cigar does lend an air of righteous to his presence.

bruce

I don't know about any Black Legion but you can be sure that native groups have their own secret societies. If there is a secret to keep, one of historical importance, they have been given more than enough reason to keep it.

 

[cw0909]

im out on the black/hand/legion/curse thing
could only find ref of associated with the 3Ks
and some black magic from the 15th century
agreed was put in for entertainment value

 

[cw0909]

I joined T-net to share all of my information. I have no need to hide what I have been told and what I know to be known as fact. My source of information is as close as I can get to the family Waltz. I'm not from the USA. I'm from a little town of Oberschwandorf, Germany. I moved to Arizona (legally) so I could come and look for the Waltz mine. I'm looking for a foundation of a stone house on the western edge of the Superstition Mountains. I have been told that the entrance to mine is inside the stone house that faced the northwest. I think it's possible the foundation would still be there.

hi can you share where the source got the info you want to share
and are they in the u.s. or in germany

 

[Aric]

hi can you share where the source got the info you want to share
and are they in the u.s. or in germany

Waltz relatives is my source, and they live in Germany.

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

OK, I got off the phone with one of my Navajo friends that I have known for many years who will put me in direct contact with a Native American Full Blooded Apache, (whom she will inform I can be trusted and she has known me for quite some time), that lives in Arizona and is familiar with the Superstitions and abroad.

But first, I forgot to mention the so called "Black Helicopter" I forgot to post about it earlier because I was focused on the "NEW" black hand print, "NEW" looking arrow, and "NEW" looking medicine wheel.

Apache Helicopter pilots fly around and can fly anywhere they please. They are not subject to fly a particular course, (unless it is for dropping ordinances on targets), mainly because they have to obtain a certain amount of flying hours per week/month. So remember, they are military so they have no limitations on where they fly to as long as it is within a region, (their closest base), they are going to fly around in. So seeing the Apache helicopter over the Superstitions is just that, "pilots flying around" and nothing else!

Now back to my conversation with my friend. Black hand prints means death, red hand prints mean blood was spilled on this spot. I still think the black hand print was "freshly" planted. It makes for good TV I guess along with a story about what it means.

I was told medicine wheels would not be placed on top of a big flat boulder rock, (as it appeared on the show), due to the fact medicine men do ceremonial dances around them and will do them on a ground surface. The place where the medicine wheel was found the medicine man would have most likely fell off the edge of the rock if he was do to a ceremonial dance around it, so that theory is busted.

My Navajo friend also told me she has never heard of "Black Legion" but also said, there are many things that are kept private within their communities and no information on it will ever be told. She is over 50 years old and is very big in her communities across the U.S. traveling around to various tribes pow wows and have very close friends in various nations abroad and she knows whats true and what isn't.

When her Apache friend contacts me today or tomorrow, I will speak with him about the "Black Legion" and see what answers he will give me.

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the show, but TV producers could care less about something being truth, in fact they would rather not have the truth be known, or made up as long as it sells entertainment.

A few days ago I read a news article about the show "Pimp my Ride", I never watched it. But I read the article on how they took motnhs to Pimp out someones car, then after the show, they removed all teh stuff they put on the show becaause it was for TV entertainment so the people who got their cars pimped, was left with the same crappy car they started out with before the show.

But as I said, TV entertainment!

 

[cactusjumper]

TheHarleyMan2,

Having had some personal experience with two men who once followed Chuck, my dad and myself out of the mountains, and to Chuck's home in the middle of a trailer park, I believe they are for real.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[deducer]

If all of that wasn't enough, wait until next week.

Guest appearances by.... the Jesuits!

 

[somehiker]

This is the real medicine wheel located in the superstitions!

View attachment 1126439

The medicine wheel in the show was built on top of this rock formation, and wasn't there when we walked over that spot about a year and a half ago.
A more recent photo ( than when the scene was shot for the show) which was posted on FB by another member of T-Net, had about a quarter of the wheel missing.
But they thought they had found something pretty special anyhow.

 

[gollum]

All,

Anybody that has been around the Lost Dutchman Story for any appreciable amount of time has heard stories about the Black Legion. No tribe (to my knowledge) has ever admitted they exist. But the story is:

Specially bred and raised Apache Boys. They secretly watch out for the Apache Interests in the Superstitions. Modern Apache Warriors. They are all supposed to be linebacker sized. Black suits and hats.

Joe has had personal experience with them. They are mentioned in Kurt Gentry's "The Killer Mountains" and Thomas Glover's "The Lost Dutchman Mine". They have been spoken about on Ron Feldman's LDM Forum.

Is there a secret band of Apache Warriors roaming the Superstition Mountains keeping people away from Secret Sacred Places? There are countless numbers of Apache Graves in those mountains. I won't go into detail about how the Apache bury their dead. I don't discount first hand experiences from people I trust (like Joe). If not for that and one other personal experience I was told, I might have just thought they were figments of some writers' imaginations.

Mike

 

[cw0909]

Waltz relatives is my source, and they live in Germany.

so did JW go back at some point and vist, or did JW send letters
if it was letters, do they still have them,and could we see them
have you started a thread to share all the info you have on JW
and ive missed it

 

[UncleMatt]

Terry Soloman's hilarious post reminded me of that King of the Hill episode about the Order of the Straight Arrow, and the sacred ritual of Wematanye. I was especially fond of the "Silence Sticks" which tested your spirit of shutting up...

 

[chlsbrns]

There are stories about the Black Legion, a group of militant Native Americans, who protect the sacred burial grounds on Peter’s Mesa. They are well trained in traditional Apache culture and their purpose is to prevent looting and robbing of their ancestor’s graves.

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: May 2011

 

[Hal Croves]

All,

Anybody that has been around the Lost Dutchman Story for any appreciable amount of time has heard stories about the Black Legion. No tribe (to my knowledge) has ever admitted they exist. But the story is:

Specially bred and raised Apache Boys. They secretly watch out for the Apache Interests in the Superstitions. Modern Apache Warriors. They are all supposed to be linebacker sized. Black suits and hats.

Joe has had personal experience with them. They are mentioned in Kurt Gentry's "The Killer Mountains" and Thomas Glover's "The Lost Dutchman Mine". They have been spoken about on Ron Feldman's LDM Forum.

Is there a secret band of Apache Warriors roaming the Superstition Mountains keeping people away from Secret Sacred Places? There are countless numbers of Apache Graves in those mountains. I won't go into detail about how the Apache bury their dead. I don't discount first hand experiences from people I trust (like Joe). If not for that and one other personal experience I was told, I might have just thought they were figments of some writers' imaginations.

Mike

gollum,
Only a guess but I would assume that the Apache buried their dead in natural cracks or hollows then filled them in with debris. Many native people did it that way. Miners I read, would have also taken advantage of these natural containers.

Your teasing now. Which Joe and what was the experience?

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Ok, I spoke with Tony as that is his first name, and he IS FULL BLOODED Apache in Arizona. I will post our FB conversation on what he said about "Black Legion"



He also told me, there was no such existance of "Black Legion" in the Superstitions. Black Legion was primarily called blacks as they called themselves "Black Legion" who integrated into the Apache Tribes and nothing else.

Update! Sorry, I don't know how the posting got sideways but it wasn't like that when I saved them. If you can read them you might have to turn your head!