new show on the dutchman

[Goose MKII]

i missed the show again, did you see the hand symbol, or was
the hand symbol just mentioned
if you did, did it look like these

http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/hand-12.jpg
Hand Symbol ***

http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/hand-print.jpg
Handprint Symbol ***

List of Symbols ***

If you're still up, the show will run again in about 40 minutes from the time of this post

 

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[cw0909]

thanks yep in a few, ill check it it out

 

[Advocat]

I'd like to comment on the "medicine wheel" they found, marked out with stones. Stone medicine wheels of that type are not typical of Southwestern tribes, including the Apache. That type of symbol and usage was common to Plains tribes and north (Ojibwe territory, etc.). However, in the last 40 years (+ or -), it's become a "sacred symbol" that has been shopped around by Nu-Agers planet-wide. It's far more likely that some Nu-Agers put it there for their own purposes, than that it is some ancient construct made by Apaches for any reason. Just sayin ....

 

[cw0909]

cool, Joe Ribaudo knows of the Black Legion, prob others here do too

Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? View topic - The Black Legion and The LDM

 

[cw0909]

I'd like to comment on the "medicine wheel" they found, marked out with stones. Stone medicine wheels of that type are not typical of Southwestern tribes, including the Apache. That type of symbol and usage was common to Plains tribes and north (Ojibwe territory, etc.). However, in the last 40 years (+ or -), it's become a "sacred symbol" that has been shopped around by Nu-Agers planet-wide. It's far more likely that some Nu-Agers put it there for their own purposes, than that it is some ancient construct made by Apaches for any reason. Just sayin ....

do you have an opinion on why the Nu-Agers would put the stone wheel there vs- elsewhere

 

[Advocat]

do you have an opinion on why the Nu-Agers would put the stone wheel there vs- elsewhere

Maybe because it's the Superstitions. Broadly speaking, the Nu-Agers view a medicine wheel circle as a type of "holy ground", as a world-unifying thing, as a celebration of the sun and so on. Building one in the Superstitions I suppose would be viewed by many of them as imbuing the symbol with even more power from these sacred mountains. Could have been done by some kids (or adults) on a hike. I'm not clear on how far out in the tules it was found and thus, how likely it would be that "just folks" would be wandering around out there and pick a spot to build the wheel.

 

[cw0909]

black hand

looks like this one
http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/hand-12.jpg
Hand Symbol ***

 

[cw0909]

the pic showed of the black hand looks like

http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/hand-print.jpg

when is the next part of show

 

[cw0909]

Maybe because it's the Superstitions. Broadly speaking, the Nu-Agers view a medicine wheel circle as a type of "holy ground", as a world-unifying thing, as a celebration of the sun and so on. Building one in the Superstitions I suppose would be viewed by many of them as imbuing the symbol with even more power from these sacred mountains. Could have been done by some kids (or adults) on a hike. I'm not clear on how far out in the tules it was found and thus, how likely it would be that "just folks" would be wandering around out there and pick a spot to build the wheel.

yea depends how far out, is it necessary to go to the wheel for ? whatever, everytime they are
doing ?

 

[jeff of pa]

I'd like to comment on the "medicine wheel" they found, marked out with stones. Stone medicine wheels of that type are not typical of Southwestern tribes, including the Apache. That type of symbol and usage was common to Plains tribes and north (Ojibwe territory, etc.). However, in the last 40 years (+ or -), it's become a "sacred symbol" that has been shopped around by Nu-Agers planet-wide. It's far more likely that some Nu-Agers put it there for their own purposes, than that it is some ancient construct made by Apaches for any reason. Just sayin ....

my opinion also.

someone playing indian

 

[pronghorn]

Damn! I didnt remember posting a date. Not that it matters.

You accuse Gollum of putting words in your mouth that you claim you never posted,
you continually insult, attempt to belittle and demean him and his posts.
Then when he is proven right and you are proven wrong, to you it doesn't matter,
how convenient for you!

 

[jeff of pa]

You accuse Gollum of putting words in your mouth that you claim you never posted,
you continually insult, attempt to belittle and demean him and his posts.
Then when he is proven right and you are proven wrong, to you it doesn't matter,
how convenient for you!

End it now pronghorn !

the Warning was not just for Gollum.

 

[deducer]

I'd like to comment on the "medicine wheel" they found, marked out with stones. Stone medicine wheels of that type are not typical of Southwestern tribes, including the Apache. That type of symbol and usage was common to Plains tribes and north (Ojibwe territory, etc.). However, in the last 40 years (+ or -), it's become a "sacred symbol" that has been shopped around by Nu-Agers planet-wide. It's far more likely that some Nu-Agers put it there for their own purposes, than that it is some ancient construct made by Apaches for any reason. Just sayin ....

The production company put it there.

Next time they fake something like that, someone should tell them to make sure all the lichen stains on the rocks face roughly the same direction, away from direct sunlight.

 

[doverturtle]

I finally watched the first episode. It was nice seeing a Treasurenet member on TV! Frank is actually the second Treasurenet member I have seen on TV in the last week. Justintime was the other.

 

[UncleMatt]

The production company put it there.

Next time they fake something like that, someone should tell them to make sure all the lichen stains on the rocks face roughly the same direction, away from direct sunlight.

I agree, and noticed that none of the rocks had penetrated the soil surface. If they had been sitting there for many years, you would see some of that.

ADDED LATER: Somehiker posted saying this medicine wheel is located on a rock, so that would explain why the rocks were only sitting on the surface, but he also said it wasn't on that rock a year and a half ago...

 

[JackH]

Curse of the Black Legion (Hist. Ch.)

I'm enjoying the video and all the neat Finds you guys came ? upon.

The Arrowhead found. Last I read sometime ago, are indicative of location of original source and time of crafting.
The translucent caramel color is more scarce. As a kid hiking in the southern California hills I found a piece a little
darker in color. When I researched this many years ago, information told me it originated hundreds of miles east
from where I found it. That information also mentioned nomadic tribes ventured east rather than west where more
similar obsidian was found but not native to that further eastern area.

Crafting: the older the arrowhead the better the craftsmanship. There were many sizes as if there were calibers.
According to the crafting article, the art of craftsmanship diminished as metals came into the mix of available tools.

I am not an expert or an authoritarian, but the arrowhead that Wayne has appears to be of the older type which
may be a few to several centuries old.

At frame 27:20 Frank notices three (3) small stones stacked upon a much larger stone. I have no problem with that,
but if a lizard had found those rocks first, they probably would not have remained stacked. What I have a problem
with is the Saguaro spear centered behind them, Clearly is pointing in which appears the direction they are traveling.
It can be seen at 22:13 and 26:50 as well. Appears you guys spent some time in this spot. Leave no stone unturned,
cactus don't count ! Lots of spent bullet's lying around, Eric says.

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

cool, Joe Ribaudo knows of the Black Legion, prob others here do too

Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? View topic - The Black Legion and The LDM

It isn't a matter of "Black Legion" being mentioned here, desertusa, or the lostdutchmangoldmine.com

Search on legends like Victorio Peak, Jesse James, Jesuit Treasures, 1715 Spanish fleet, etc., etc. and so on. You will find PAGES of the many links of information on it and just not limited and not related to 1, 2, or maybe 3 websites, just related to treasure hunting.

Sounds like I could just go out in the wilderness, make up some bogus name on something and convice people it stems back from ancient times because I am the only one whose studied it and posted the info on it on 1 or 2 websites and debate why it isn't known world wide on the internet like all the other factual information that is out there.

 

[sdcfia]

The production company put it there.

Of course they did. Likewise, for many decades, an unknown amount of supposedly "legitimate treasure clues" has likely been faked in the region for essentially the same reason - to rile up the gullibles. Or perhaps to misdirect them. It's unfortunate for the tv participants that they have now painted themselves with a similar brush - abetting disinformation. For America's tv audience, it doesn't matter - then this show ends they'll move on to the next hillbilly topic. However, the small niche of "serious THers" may see the participants in a different light than before.

 

[Azquester]

Good Show got in late from metal detecting and watched it at 10 it's great to be able to skip those nasty commercials!

The Black Legion Apache's Men in Black!

The Shadow People of the Mountains! Nice arrowhead find!

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Curse of the Black Legion (Hist. Ch.)


The Arrowhead found. Last I read sometime ago, are indicative of location of original source and time of crafting.
The translucent caramel color is more scarce. As a kid hiking in the southern California hills I found a piece a little
darker in color. When I researched this many years ago, information told me it originated hundreds of miles east
from where I found it. That information also mentioned nomadic tribes ventured east rather than west where more
similar obsidian was found but not native to that further eastern area.

Crafting: the older the arrowhead the better the craftsmanship. There were many sizes as if there were calibers.
According to the crafting article, the art of craftsmanship diminished as metals came into the mix of available tools.

I am not an expert or an authoritarian, but the arrowhead that Wayne has appears to be of the older type which
may be a few to several centuries old.

I have found many arrowheads laying on top of the ground, (not in that area, but here in Llano, Virginia, Louisiana, Georgia, and in an area between Serria Vista and Tombstone and have yet to find an arrowhead that was "too clean" free of any dirt, even the couple of quartz arrowheads I found. One side of the arrowhead would be cleaner than the other because it was exposed to rain and weathering, while the otherside would have dirt and other minerals stuck to it.

But, it is TV entertainment and on some of the stuff, the medicine wheel, (stones doesn't look old and even the smallest of stones move over time, with rains, winds and natural environments and I believe some of those stones would have been moved out of place), But it could be debated, but either way TV entertainment!