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[Culinary Caveman]

A quick question. Mind you I'm new to the LDM riddle. Why's the gold in the match safe so different than that which Frank has mined in the same area? Is it normal for gold to be so different in appearance in such close proximity? Thanks, CC.

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

A quick question. Mind you I'm new to the LDM riddle. Why's the gold in the match safe so different than that which Frank has mined in the same area? Is it normal for gold to be so different in appearance in such close proximity? Thanks, CC.

Close? We know where frank's claim is, but not where the LDM is.

 

[gollum]

CC,

You say same area? How do you know that Frank's Claim is in the same area as the LDM?

Waltz himself said that "No miner will ever find my mine..." To me, that says that normal methods of prospecting will not trace back to his mine. By normal, I mean start panning way downstream. As long as you keep getting a little color, keep moving upstream. When the color stops, go back to the last spot you got gold, then start looking uphill. Eventually, you will find the vein that begat the gold that has run downstream from it.

There are tons of gold and silver in the Superstition Mountains. Its just covered by a cap of 40-70 feet of volcanic tuff. The LDM is in a spot where what was under the tuff broke through (landslide, earthquake, water washouts, etc). The Peralta/Gonzalez Families had at least eight gold mines in and around the Supers. At least two of them have been found: One is the "Pit Mine" on the East side of the mountains, and "The Mormon Stope" of the Mammoth Mine was the other.

Mike

 

[Culinary Caveman]

My apologies, by close I meant in the sense that it's within the 160,000 acres that encompasses the superstitions. That said, is it common for 2 mines within 10 to 15 miles of one another to produce gold that is so different in outward appearance ? Thanks again.

 

[gollum]

The gold Frank has been finding has a lot of copper in it. The ore in the match safe does not appear so to have so much copper.

Look at a map. Goldfield on the West of the Supers. Globe on the East side of the Supers. Both well known for having produced gobs and gobs of gold and silver. Why wouldn't that same amount of wealth be in between those two places? There is, its just covered by Volcanic Tuff. Under that tuff, we will find all the lost mines of the Peralta and Gonzalez Families (and more).

Mike

 

[wrmickel1]

The gold Frank has been finding has a lot of copper in it. The ore in the match safe does not appear so to have so much copper.

Look at a map. Goldfield on the West of the Supers. Globe on the East side of the Supers. Both well known for having produced gobs and gobs of gold and silver. Why wouldn't that same amount of wealth be in between those two places? There is, its just covered by Volcanic Tuff. Under that tuff, we will find all the lost mines of the Peralta and Gonzalez Families (and more).

Mike

Mike, you believe the mines were covered after they were mined by volcanic activity, I don't see any any recent volcanic activity,

Wrmickel1

 

[Culinary Caveman]

I know, I know. My question was about the composition of the materials coming out of the superstitions, is it common for 2 mines to have such huge differences in the same area? I'm not a miner and I'm curious to know if this is a normal phenomenon?

 

[azblackbird]

I know, I know. My question was about the composition of the materials coming out of the superstitions, is it common for 2 mines to have such huge differences in the same area? I'm not a miner and I'm curious to know if this is a normal phenomenon?

The gold can be different from the very same mine. It all depends on how it came out of solution and what other minerals were mixed in with it. Here in AZ you can have a predominate copper mine, and within a 1/4 mile you could have a gold or silver mine. Mother nature has a strange way of how she deposited her riches.

 

[wrmickel1]

I know, I know. My question was about the composition of the materials coming out of the superstitions, is it common for 2 mines to have such huge differences in the same area? I'm not a miner and I'm curious to know if this is a normal phenomenon?

Yes, it is one could be a visible gold mine one can be a wire gold and one can be a micro there's no rules when it comes to gold.

Wrmickel1

 

[Culinary Caveman]

Thanks blackbird & wrmickel1 that answers my question. I appreciate it.

 

[gollum]

Mike, you believe the mines were covered after they were mined by volcanic activity, I don't see any any recent volcanic activity,

Wrmickel1

Wrmickel1,

The volcanic tuff/dacite was laid down about 25 million years ago.

So...NO. If you read my description of how I believe the LDM came to be found, you will see that through natural actions (earthquakes, landslides, waterwashes), some of that tuffitic cap was broken off or worn away exposing the earth underneath. This is where I think the LDM will be found. Somewhere up high on a ledge, there is probably a shear zone that exposed a rich vein of quartz/gold. The Spanish knew more about mining than most experienced miners today. They knew that both Tuffitic and Iron Caps hide a wealth of mineralization underneath. They also liked to let Mother Nature do as much of the work for them as they could. That's why they liked to explore cave systems with underground rivers. They cut away the mountains from underneath.


Mike

 

[chlsbrns]

If any of you read...

https://books.google.com/books?id=ss8NAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=html_text

You will find much info on the peraltas and more info on gold and silver mines than you will want to read. You will also find that much of what you think or believe is incorrect!

There is also info on a rich mine north of the salt river that was abandoned and not worked due to indian attacks

Its a whole lot of reading!

 

[wrmickel1]

Alright, I see where on the same page on that, but I believe you can rule out a stream bed since Waltz said he would take his donkey down to a watering whole and not let him drink from a stream.

I mean if the clue is real.

Wrmickel1

 

[JackH]

If any of you read...

https://books.google.com/books?id=ss8NAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=html_text

You will find much info on the peraltas and more info on gold and silver mines than you will want to read. You will also find that much of what you think or believe is incorrect!

There is also info on a rich mine north of the salt river that was abandoned and not worked due to indian attacks

Its a whole lot of reading!

Your quote: ( There is also info on a rich mine north of the salt river that was abandoned and not worked due to Indian attacks. )


Funny how that keeps coming up.......

 

[chlsbrns]

A map showing a few 16th century mines

https://books.google.com/books?id=P...put=html_text&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4

Some land claims

https://books.google.com/books?id=P...put=html_text&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4

A text version of the pdf in my previous post. Its easier to search. Gives more results but was made with a text recognition program. Search for peralta, gold, mines, ect.

https://archive.org/stream/historyarizonaa00oakgoog/historyarizonaa00oakgoog_djvu.txt

 

[chlsbrns]

Your quote: ( There is also info on a rich mine north of the salt river that was abandoned and not worked due to Indian attacks. )


Funny how that keeps coming up.......

These are history books published late 1800's. Not so and so said. It also says how many leages north of the river. A spanish league is about 2.4 miles. You cant search for league because it says L it does not say league. I think it was 20 L but im not sure? Its a whole lot of reading and a whole lot of info!

 

[azblackbird]

This is where I think the LDM will be found. Somewhere up high on a ledge, there is probably a shear zone that exposed a rich vein of quartz/gold.

That's pretty much my theory. He snagged the richest and easiest to get to (exposed) ore/specimens and the rest is history. I doubt there's a proper mine per se. If there is, it's probably pretty shallow, thus the reason for no massive tailing piles or well worn trails. I would surmise he probably made a dozen trips in and out and that was it. I find shallow diggings all the time out here in the Bradshaws. Back in the day, a prospector would come across a nice ore pocket, dig it out until it pinched out, then move on to the next one. Thats why the Supers were never all that active. Just not that many exposed veins, or huge placer deposits like there were in many other parts of AZ. I guarantee that area has been thoroughly covered over the years. A lot of people were hungry back in the day.

 

[sgtfda]

The gold Frank has been finding has a lot of copper in it. The ore in the match safe does not appear so to have so much copper.

Look at a map. Goldfield on the West of the Supers. Globe on the East side of the Supers. Both well known for having produced gobs and gobs of gold and silver. Why wouldn't that same amount of wealth be in between those two places? There is, its just covered by Volcanic Tuff. Under that tuff, we will find all the lost mines of the Peralta and Gonzalez Families (and more).

Mike

Mike the assay on my gold is 79.9% gold and 20%silver. Greg had a assay done on some I gave him

 

[johnmark29020]

That's pretty much my theory. He snagged the richest and easiest to get to (exposed) ore/specimens and the rest is history. I doubt there's a proper mine per se. If there is, it's probably pretty shallow, thus the reason for no massive tailing piles or well worn trails. I would surmise he probably made a dozen trips in and out and that was it. I find shallow diggings all the time out here in the Bradshaws. Back in the day, a prospector would come across a nice ore pocket, dig it out until it pinched out, then move on to the next one. Thats why the Supers were never all that active. Just not that many exposed veins, or huge placer deposits like there were in many other parts of AZ. I guarantee that area has been thoroughly covered over the years. A lot of people were hungry back in the day.

In one version of the ldm. Waltzs said the mexicans dug two mines,and he dug a third. That could refer to shallow diggins.
In the holme manuscripts. He tails dick to be careful opening the mine,but the ledge to the mine was 6 feet deep. Maybe thats shallow in mining.
So I see your point. There is some circumstantial evidence take points to your idea.

 

[JackH]

$200 Million, how did we arrive at that figure ?

In the past I have posted, 100 animals in a pack train have been observed back in their day.
Each animal was expected to carry as much as 200 lbs. But lets safely reduce that burden so
the animal might make the trip, 150 lbs ?

Last I looked $1200 ounce, you should exceed that. Peralta delivered that on a schedule lets
say 75 animals, but exceeding today's values of $200M.

(Troy ounce ? lets not go there since we are approximating.) OK, less than 1 1/2 oz diff.
between the two at a normal Avoirdupois pound.

Who says that's all that's left ? If I remember correctly, that Mine is MILES LONG based on
the reported assay estimated back in the day. But what the hell do I know.

Next !