My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[lokiblossom]

Since your hypothesis states the Templars departed from New Rochelle, in France, would they most likely have used hemp or flax, rather than coir which was less likely to be available - though it WAS the best choice in the EASTERN Mediterranean...unless you are further suggesting that they loaded up with coir in the eastern Med, already planning to stash their booty in NE North America in a year or two, after spending an extended period in France - where "better materials" were available?

Their "stay in France" was less then four months, arriving at La Rochelle sometime after May 1307, knowing of an impending trouble, and leaving sometime in early September 1307. I "premise" the vessels that sailed to Nova Scotia spent the winter of 1307-1308 at Ardchattan Priory in Scotland, but still in Scotland if not Ardchattan. Ardchattan housed a sister order to the Templars own Cistercian's and there are some unique stone carvings at Ardchattan, besides the fact a major side of my family is from near there and I like to think of it that way.

Cheers, Loki

 

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[lokiblossom]

You stated they were detailed enough to record a routine return from voyage of residents...and would ignore the unusual visit of strangers.

As far as alternate explanations of "eastern Mediterranean coconut coir...the arrival of Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites fit the bill, is accepted as FACT by over 10 MILLION people, and was documented over 150 years ago. If you wish to go by preponderance of the evidence, it looks dim for the Templars...

I would like to know more about this information on the "Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites, seems like I've seen this before somewhere, maybe even Salt Lake City.

Cheers, loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Oh boy. A new player has entered the game. ;-) Get out your Urim stone, kids.

Suddenly the Templars in the New World are looking pretty solid by comparison.

 

[ECS]

Wow, I think you have me!
My well recorded comment was that any European vessels that sailed to the Western Atlantic during that period (other than the Templars, who were running from the law) would have been well recorded.
Villiers was the 2nd highest ranking member of the order before the arrest of de Molay, he became the most wanted man in France after 1307. He certainly went somewhere and because of this de Chalons testimony makes perfect sense...

de Villiers went somewhere, but to where is pure speculation, as there as NOTHING to that effect is "well recorded".
There is a difference to "well recorded" facts and "random" facts fallacy fabricated to support an unproven undocumented event.

 

[lokiblossom]

de Villiers went somewhere, but to where is pure speculation, as there as NOTHING to that effect is "well recorded".
There is a difference to "well recorded" facts and "random" facts fallacy fabricated to support an unproven undocumented event.

You're mixing up answers again. My statement "Villiers went somewhere" was in answer to your,"where was it recorded that Gerard de Villers left port?" Which you now seem to agree with. That de Villers became the most wanted man in France "is" well recorded!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Perhaps the "genealogy's" locked away are those "proving" British Royal descent from King David of Israel (thereby "proving" the British Israelism theory of the fate of the 10 Lost Tribes), or substantiation for Geoffrey of Monmouth’s claims of the Royals' descent from King Arthur...no less likely.

I had to revisit this and wonder what was meant Dave? Although this thread is "My abbreviated theory" I am open to hearing other ideas.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

We have yet to "prove" a King David of Israel. There is only one record of his having existed and that is in the Torah. No physical evidence or contemporary mention has surfaced as yet.

 

[franklin]

We have yet to "prove" a King David of Israel. There is only one record of his having existed and that is in the Torah. No physical evidence or contemporary mention has surfaced as yet.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...rical-evidence-of-the-king-david-bible-story/

 

[ECS]

You're mixing up answers again. My statement "Villiers went somewhere" was in answer to your,"where was it recorded that Gerard de Villers left port?" Which you now seem to agree with...

As you are very apt at doing yourself., Loki.
The ONLY mention of de Villiers going "somewhere", is from de Chalons deposition relating that he saw de Villiers leading 50 horses.
de Chalons did NOT mention WHERE he saw de Villiers, WHEN he saw de Villiers, or WHAT was de Villiers destination.
There is NO "well recorded" mention of a large band of Templars traveling to La Rochelle, nor of 18 galleys setting out to sea outside of de Chalons hearsay testimony.
Now it was reported that de Villiers was possibly leading those horses to meet up with Knights who going to Lyon to regroup a force against King Phillip the Fair.
Instead of retribution against Phillip, these Templars fled to Switzerland.
It is not known if they brought any coconut coir into the Swiss Alps.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

That fragment (the Tel Dan Stele) was discovered in 1993. Not all archeologists agree on the interpretation the Israelis propose. It describes the death and destruction of 70 kings (in Aramaic) possibly more than a century after Solomon's time (another "if he existed"). The inscription refers to a pair of slain leaders and later what may be the "House of David", or a place (or even structure like a temple or residence) name. It's also noted that the inscription is one word. "BYTDWD" instead of two and is missing a letter. I don't have a Old Phoenician keyboard but "Bayith", written right to left & without vowels still ends with "h" (looks like a backwards "F" with an extra arm). They missed it. Even Hebrew in "Beth" = house of. They didn't use vowels and the context of the stele has been interpreted different ways depending on how the various fragments are arranged (they were found in scattered bits used as parts of a wall).

There is one edge of the stele and the rest is gone - so it is hard to say what the missing bits would have been. Could have been "Guess that proves there never was a . . . "

"BAR" - Biblical Archeology Review. I allowed my subscription to run out after a few years because they are the most skewed and biased group . . . well, among the most biased. Their premise is to prove a tenet rather than keep open minds.

 

[lokiblossom]

Now it was reported that de Villiers was possibly leading those horses to meet up with Knights who going to Lyon to regroup a force against King Phillip the Fair.
Instead of retribution against Phillip, these Templars fled to Switzerland.
It is not known if they bruoght any coconut coir into the Swiss Alps.

What is your source for this information and how did they bruoght this coir to the Alps?

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

It is NOT known if the Templars brought coir to the ALPS, or if they ever used coir, but it is known they brought their banking practices, including the use of safe deposit boxes, which is a mainstay of Swiss banking's numbered accounts.
As for "well recorded" when Leopold V of Austria army invaded the Swiss Alps in 1315, the mountain peasant communities were aided in ambushing the Austrians at St Gotthard Pass, by mountain knights in white, possibly de Villers and fellow Templars mounted in those 50 horses of which de Chalons gave an eyewitness testimony.
Then there is the Swiss flag with a white Templar cross on red, and the Templar warrior shield with cross emblem that is in from of every Swiss embassy, and on every Swiss army knife.

 

[lokiblossom]

It is NOT known if the Templars brought coir to the ALPS, or if they ever used coir, but it is known they brought their banking practices, including the use of safe deposit boxes, which is a mainstay of Swiss banking's numbered accounts.
As for "well recorded" when Leopold V of Austria army invaded the Swiss Alps in 1315, the mountain peasant communities were aided in ambushing the Austrians at St Gotthard Pass, by mountain knights in white, possibly de Villers and fellow Templars mounted in those 50 horses of which de Chalons gave an eyewitness testimony.
Then there is the Swiss flag with a white Templar cross on red, and the Templar warrior shield with cross emblem that is in from of every Swiss embassy, and on every Swiss army knife.

Wow, amazing information, thanks. You must have been doing some serious digging, nice try!

But even if Jean de Chalons was lied to by whomever gave him the information about de Villiers, there was still a fleet of ships at La Rochelle that disappeared and they didn't sail to St. Gotthard Pass. And there is still coir dated to around the 13th century on Oak Island that could only have originally come from the Eastern Mediterranean.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Wow, amazing information, thanks. You must have been doing some serious digging, nice try!

But even if Jean de Chalons was lied to by whomever gave him the information about de Villiers, there was still a fleet of ships at La Rochelle that disappeared and they didn't sail to St. Gotthard Pass. And there is still coir dated to around the 13th century on Oak Island that could only have originally come from the Eastern Mediterranean.

Where is there collaborating contemporary Medieval records and/or documents that state that there was this fleet of 18 galleys, most likely employed as merchant trade vessels and far less than de Chalons hearsay testimony, as for disappearing, is a matter of semantics, you, Loki, have stated they set sail to Scotland, landing near where your ancestors lived.

Now with all that activity beginning with de Villiers seen leading 50 horses by de Chalons, isn't curious that this most wanted man in France and his band of fleeing Templars were not observed by anyone and not documented by anyone outside of de Chalons testimony?
Remember, de Chalons never stated WHERE he saw de Villers, or mentioned his destination, as for the alleged La Richelle galleys, he stated he was TOLD that they set to sea, and, as who told him is not revealed.
While there were established Templars in England, and Scotland, there is NO recorded influx of French Templars seeking refuge in Scotland with 18 galleys full of coir.
...but there is a record of those mounted knights in white that aided the mountain peasants against that 1315 Austrian invasion at Gotthard Pass.

 

[lokiblossom]

Where is there collaborating contemporary Medieval records and/or documents that state that there was this fleet of 18 galleys, most likely employed as merchant trade vessels and far less than de Chalons hearsay testimony, as for disappearing, is a matter of semantics, you, Loki, have stated they set sail to Scotland, landing near where your ancestors lived.

Now with all that activity beginning with de Villiers seen leading 50 horses by de Chalons, isn't curious that this most wanted man in France and his band of fleeing Templars were not observed by anyone and not documented by anyone outside of de Chalons testimony?
Remember, de Chalons never stated WHERE he saw de Villers, or mentioned his destination, as for the alleged La Richelle galleys, he stated he was TOLD that they set to sea, and, as who told him is not revealed.
While there were established Templars in England, and Scotland, there is NO recorded influx of French Templars seeking refuge in Scotland with 18 galleys full of coir.
...but there is a record of those mounted knights in white that aided the mountain peasants against that 1315 Austrian invasion at Gotthard Pass.

In relation to my premise's, none of what you posted here is accurate. As for your reference to the Battle of Bannockburn Creek, that has nothing to do with my premise's. What is evidence of my premise is the positive identity of coconut fibre on Oak Island dated to around the 13th century.

Cheers, loki

 

[DaveVanP]

My attempt of trying to bring perspective to the claims of Templar visits to America seem to have opened a different can of worms...

Don't let it divert this thread.

 

[lokiblossom]

My attempt of trying to bring perspective to the claims of Templar visits to America seem to have opened a different can of worms...

Don't let it divert this threat.

Last I'll mention it!

 

[ECS]

In relation to my premise's, none of what you posted here is accurate.
As for your reference to the Battle of Bannockburn Creek, that has nothing to do with my premise's.
What is evidence of my premise is the positive identity of coconut fibre on Oak Island dated to around the 13th century.

On my POST# 534, to which you responded, I never mentioned Bannockburn, just that there were existing Templar Orders in England and Scotland, AND that there is "NO RECORDED of an influx of French Templars seeking refuge in Scotland with 18 galleys full of coir".
You do seem to jump to conclusions by misunderstanding what is written.
Now onto what you claim is not accurate in my post, Loki, and your proof that it isn't accurate:
Is there outside contemporary collaborating evidence that there were 18 loaded galleys in La Rochelle during the great flight?
Is there outside contemporary collaborating evidence confirming where de Villiers led these 50 horses?
Is there outside contemporary evidence that these fleeing Templars set to sea and went to Scotland?
Is there outside contemporary evidence that the Templars actually used coconut coir?
Is there outside contemporary evidence beyond you coir claims that the Templars ever made a voyage to Oak Island/Nova Scotia?
Can you prove that the mounted knights in white that aided the Swiss in 1315 Austrian army invasion at Gotthard Pass were not Templars who fled from Lyon , France?
So in relation to your premise, Loki... "NUFF SAID.

 

[ECS]

Last I'll mention it!

That would be a wise decision, as that alleged dated coir only proves that it was found on Oak Island, not when it arrived there, or. if brought, by whom.

 

[lokiblossom]

That would be a wise decision, as that alleged dated coir only proves that it was found on Oak Island, not when it arrived there, or. if brought, by whom.

Again you misdirect and misrepresent! The statement "Last I'll mention it!", had nothing to do with our discussion. As you well know, in that statement I was respecting the wish of poster of "DaveVanP". "Respect; Due regard for the feelings or wishes of others"!

Your mention of the Battle of Gotthard Pass is your attempt at a direct reference to Bannockburn!

I don't know exactly how many vessels left La Rochelle in 1307, could have been 18 or even more, possibly less.

I don't know how many were loaded or where most of them went.

I don't care what Gerard de Villiers did with his 50 horses.

I don't know how many went to Scotland.

It would be impossible for the Templars who were based in the Eastern Mediterranean for 200 years not to have used "coconut coir" and they certainly wouldn't have thrown it away because they sailed to France.

The coir on Oak Island dated to around the 13th century, is direct evidence that they were on Oak Island for an undetermined amount of time.

As far as I know, Templar's could very well have aided the Swiss during the 1315 battle at Gotthard Pass, although after 1312 they wouldn't have been Templar's. Do you have any outside contemporary evidence of this?

Cheers, Loki