My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[franklin]

I have! A few Templar vessels arrived there in 1308 with coir lines (lines is sailing talk for ropes), packing, sleeping mats and ect., parked at Oak Island for an unknown amount of time repairing vessels, perhaps even scuttling some beyond repair, while planning their next move. The coconut fibre dating is evidence of this.
If not how did the coconut fibre dated to before the mid 1300s by the reliable Beta Analytic, get there?

Cheers, Loki

Loki, You would be correct. The first recorded Knights Templar ship came to Oak Island in 1179.

 

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[ECS]

Loki, You would be correct. The first recorded Knights Templar ship came to Oak Island in 1179.

Franklin, where is this voyage recorded?
Please cite the source of this claim you continue to make, without which, it seems to be just a passed along tall tale of lore.

 

[lokiblossom]

and not being seen by anyone, complete fantasy......

You think maybe Columbus was there or something?

 

[lokiblossom]

That also includes you, Loki, my friend.

I did on post #477 and quite a few times before that!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I have to wonder about your motives with this statement Charlie. Using as an example Polynesians, Chinese and Australian Natives having sailed to Nova Scotia in the 13th or 14th century (a distance of over 20,000 miles with a rounding of Cape Horn) being more likely than a few Europeans with capable vessels, escaping at the very least prison and torture by sailing from island to island across the Atlantic (a trip that had already been made many times and well documented btw). At least the Scandinavians would have been a possibility although again not as likely having not traded in the Eastern Mediterranean that late, with no reason to have sailed directly from there to the Western Atlantic.

Cheers, Loki

My motivation was to counter your statement to the effect that Templars were the choice by process of elimination because: "IF there were coconut fibers on Oak Island therefore Templars". I proposed alternative choices that were potentially more or slightly less probable than the Templar proposal.

Regarding: "a few Europeans with capable vessels, escaping at the very least prison and torture by sailing from island to island across the Atlantic." PS - "Island to Island" past Scandanavian settlements note worthy for RECORDING history that made no mention, and also a folk know to value wealth AND a good fight. You think a Norse outpost seeing a bunch of French knights wouldn't get the spears and axes out?

Further . . . why? Why Oak Island if that was the stopping off point? (Or at least where they dumped the rotten coir out of the holds instead of just tossing it over the side en-route). To achieve a miraculously deep excavation which would have taken months if not years while leaving no surface evidence of habitation, records, artifacts or even having a sensible purpose for bothering to move fabulous wealth only to dispose of it deeply in potentially unfriendly territory? Seems like the first order of business would be to construct shelter and lay up food for pretty harsh winter seasons.

 

[petetherocker]

Loki, You would be correct. The first recorded Knights Templar ship came to Oak Island in 1179.

 

[lokiblossom]

My motivation was to counter your statement to the effect that Templars were the choice by process of elimination because: "IF there were coconut fibers on Oak Island therefore Templars". I proposed alternative choices that were potentially more or slightly less probable than the Templar proposal.

Regarding: "a few Europeans with capable vessels, escaping at the very least prison and torture by sailing from island to island across the Atlantic." PS - "Island to Island" past Scandanavian settlements note worthy for RECORDING history that made no mention, and also a folk know to value wealth AND a good fight. You think a Norse outpost seeing a bunch of French knights wouldn't get the spears and axes out?

Further . . . why? Why Oak Island if that was the stopping off point? (Or at least where they dumped the rotten coir out of the holds instead of just tossing it over the side en-route). To achieve a miraculously deep excavation which would have taken months if not years while leaving no surface evidence of habitation, records, artifacts or even having a sensible purpose for bothering to move fabulous wealth only to dispose of it deeply in potentially unfriendly territory? Seems like the first order of business would be to construct shelter and lay up food for pretty harsh winter seasons.

Those Island people, Icelanders and the Greenlanders, were always excited to see a vessel, any vessel. I would have to find and read the story again about how the children and women would run down to the sea when an approaching ship was sighted which wasn't very often. I doubt that a couple of vessels stopping in on what would be considered an exploratory voyage to get a few provisions would get anybodys dander up. Even the Vikings in Newfoundland got along for awhile with the natives. It was only shortly after that the English began trading with the Icelanders.

As for Oak Island, that was in a quiet little bay and close to shore, and like I mentioned before, maybe they thought the native girls were pretty. Coir was more than rotten fibre in the holds, it was the ships ropes, sleeping mats and cargo packing among other uses mentioned by the manufacturers. Why they dumped it, I have no idea, but they did, and btw, there never was as much as everbody seems to think. Several times when it was sent out for testing it was requested that any not used be returned, and when the museum offered me some it was to only be a small quantity. One other point I would like to make is that I never premised anybody digging a deep hole on Oak Island. My mention of scuttling a vessel or two wouldn't involve much more than hatchets and a fire I would think.

For people that require facts to accept any kind of premise, here are some facts proven by science which are simply being ignored for the sake of argument. Sure there are other possibilities, but a Templar presence on Oak Island in the early 14th century is in my opinion the most likely way to explain the dating of the coconut fibre.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

My mention of scuttling a vessel or two wouldn't involve much more than hatchets and a fire I would think.

Scuttling a vessel (holing the hull to sink it) leaves the hull sunk to the bottom. There would be LOTS of evidence. More than a couple spikes and a board. And if the timbers are gone why would much less durable coconut coir (with it's six year life for erosion mats before it biodegrades) still be evident? Perhaps you meant careening? (Laying a ship on it's side for repair).

As I mentioned before when Erik the Red took a settlement party of 25 some vessels along that route only as far as Greenland they lost 11 of the ships; as well as the passengers to exposure and disease. Columbus lost 2/3 of his original "fleet" in calmer waters to the south. I doubt the Temlars would trust themselves or valuables to such speculation. How long did they have to prepare for this trip? You don't just run to the docks with the Inquisition chasing you and liberate a fleet to escape.

 

[lokiblossom]

Scuttling a vessel (holing the hull to sink it) leaves the hull sunk to the bottom. There would be LOTS of evidence. More than a couple spikes and a board. And if the timbers are gone why would much less durable coconut coir (with it's six year life for erosion mats before it biodegrades) still be evident? Perhaps you meant careening? (Laying a ship on it's side for repair).

As I mentioned before when Erik the Red took a settlement party of 25 some vessels along that route only as far as Greenland they lost 11 of the ships; as well as the passengers to exposure and disease. Columbus lost 2/3 of his original "fleet" in calmer waters to the south. I doubt the Temlars would trust themselves or valuables to such speculation. How long did they have to prepare for this trip? You don't just run to the docks with the Inquisition chasing you and liberate a fleet to escape.

I don't know that they did anything to any of the vessels, as for laying it on its side to repair, I have seen that in Nova Scotia, but more so on the Bay of Fundy with the much higher tides. Do we know what time of year Mr. Red made his later voyage? I do know the Draken hit some terrible weather crossing in April, but the crew had dry suits.

They had several months to prepare, knowing something was up when they left Cyprus, finding out for sure at least a full month ahead of time. La Rochelle was a port the Templars had basically been given in 1139 controlling it with their own authorities in 1307. The inquisition was a Catholic institution, they were being arrested this first time by the King of France. A month later the Pope issued an order for the arrests of all Templars in Europe.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

I did on post #477 and quite a few times before that!

You have only established ad nauseum (aka "quite a few times") that pieces of coconut coir were found on Oak Island and were date tested resulting in several conflicting dating results.
What you HAVE NOT established is how it arrived on Oak Island, posting far too many times unproven and unsupported by real facts speculation as to your fabricated pet theory that it was left there by the Templars.

 

[lokiblossom]

You have only established ad nauseum (aka "quite a few times") that pieces of coconut coir were found on Oak Island and were date tested resulting in several conflicting dating results.
What you HAVE NOT established is how it arrived on Oak Island, posting far too many times unproven and unsupported by real facts speculation as to your fabricated pet theory that it was left there by the Templars.

Then you tell me, how did it get there? I will surely read and probably believe your input!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

IF it is coir it arrived by unknown means.

Do YOU have evidence of prior recorded use of coir by Templars?

 

[ECS]

...Remember, no one has come close to explaining the 'coconut fibre' on Oak Island...

...and no one has come close to placing that coconut coir sample on Oak Island in the hands of Templars or anyone else.
Even with all your speculation, Loki, combining unrelated unconnected random facts, you have failed at placing the infamous Oak Island coconut coir sample in the hands of the Templars, just like others who claim Sinclair and Templars voyaged to Oak Island/Nova Scotia due to the lack of real evidence to make a positive solid connection.
Remember, repeating supposition over and over does not make it fact.

 

[ECS]

... The first recorded Knights Templar ship came to Oak Island in 1179.

Where and when was this alleged Templar ship voyage to Oak Island recorded, and by whom?

 

[lokiblossom]

IF it is coir it arrived by unknown means.

Do YOU have evidence of prior recorded use of coir by Templars?

Unknown to you! The evidence is in the fact that everyone in the Eastern Mediterranean used "coir" for ships rigging's and any other place ropes would be used, as well as thousands of other uses. Coir was manufactured in India from where it made its way to the countries of the Eastern Med. through overland trading.

The Knights Templar's who by the middle of the 12th century had developed their own substantial fleet based in the Eastern Mediterranean would have equipped this fleet the same as any Arab vessel of the period. They kept increasing the number of vessels while replacing older ones throughout their 200 year sojourn in the area. While it is also true they had a vessel or two based in Southern France at the Port of Marseilles they were only allowed to make one voyage a year from that port to carry pilgrims to the Holy Land.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

...and no one has come close to placing that coconut coir sample on Oak Island in the hands of Templars or anyone else.
Even with all your speculation, Loki, combining unrelated unconnected random facts, you have failed at placing the infamous Oak Island coconut coir sample in the hands of the Templars, just like others who claim Sinclair and Templars voyaged to Oak Island/Nova Scotia due to the lack of real evidence to make a positive solid connection.
Remember, repeating supposition over and over does not make it fact.

Than how do you think it got there? You must have an idea if you are so adamant about mine!

 

[DaveVanP]

Those Island people, Icelanders and the Greenlanders, were always excited to see a vessel, any vessel. I would have to find and read the story again about how the children and women would run down to the sea when an approaching ship was sighted which wasn't very often. I doubt that a couple of vessels stopping in on what would be considered an exploratory voyage to get a few provisions would get anybodys dander up. Even the Vikings in Newfoundland got along for awhile with the natives. It was only shortly after that the English began trading with the Icelanders.

So, you are saying that the Greenlanders and Icelanders DID get excited, and run down to the shore to meet ships that were at least expected, if not actually scheduled, so much so that they DID record such events ...but a strange ship, appearing unexpectedly, with foreigners would not even warrant a mention in any of the sagas, or other stories?

 

[lokiblossom]

So, you are saying that the Greenlanders and Icelanders DID get excited, and run down to the shore to meet ships that were at least expected, if not actually scheduled, so much so that they DID record such events ...but a strange ship, appearing unexpectedly, with foreigners would not even warrant a mention in any of the sagas, or other stories?

How detailed do you think the Icelandic Sagas are? It is a fact though that English began to show up in Icelandic waters by the 14th century to fish and for the most part were welcomed.

How do you think the 13th century coir got to Oak Island? Lets hear some other ideas!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... The first recorded Knights Templar ship came to Oak Island in 1179.

When, when, and by whom was this 1179 Templar ship landing on Oak Island recorded?
I'd bet Loki a dram of coir that this "record" of a Templar landing first appeared in the late 20th century.

 

[ECS]

Than how do you think it got there? You must have an idea if you are so adamant about mine!

Loki, my friend, I as well as you and everyone else. do not know how the coir found in Oak Island got there beyond supposition and speculation, but what all know, including you,is that the coirsample is not evidence or proof in anyway that the Templars brought it to Oak Island.