My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[lokiblossom]

What is correct is that outside of de Chalons contemporary statement, NO other contemporary records or documents exist that can conclusively confirm how many sea worthy galleys or ships were at Templar ports in 1307, how many were Templar owned or were leased fir hire by the Templars, of how many "set to sea" in 1307.
You keep making these grand broad statement like "history agrees" and "Templar historians" agree, but you neglect to name this agreeing Templar historians beyond Evelyn Lord's statement that only mentions Templar ports and vessels, which proves absolutely nothing concerning the great La Rochelle flight you base your "coconut coir premise" upon.
So if you expect your statements to be credible, once again I implore, list these Templar historians that "agree" and their quotes that actually address this point on which they all agree, and the source, knowing as you so eloquently posted:
"The fact is there is no such record because they were gone".

The simple "fact" is that no Templar Historian (none) dispute the fact that after the raids no vessels owned by the Knights Templar were in port, that's any port. Ms. Lord specifically mentions La Rochelle is where their Atlantic fleet was based. And, along with the fact that Templars were not very welcome in the French Mediterranean ports (limited to one vessel a year in Marseilles, for instance), it is most likely that Jacques de Molay in obeying Clement V's order to meet him in Poitiers parked the vessels he sailed from Cyprus in the one port the Templars had full control of, La Rochelle. This information could easily bring the number of vessels in La Rochelle to 18, which adds credence to Jean de Chalons testimony!

None of this effects the "fact" that the Knights Templar owned a sizable number of vessels that were based in the Eastern Mediterranean for 200 years where they would have used coir for all rigging. Also not effected is the "fact" that these vessels all disappeared in 1307 and "coir" was found on Oak Island dated to before 1300. Which is certain evidence of Knights Templars visiting Oak Island.

Cheers, Loki

 

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[franklin]

Since 1307 and 1395 are not that far apart in years their ships would have been relatively the same size. In the 17th Century the ships were two times larger than they were during the 14th Century. Sir Henry Sinclair brought over 7 treasure galleons in 1398 with one half of the Knights Templar treasures. Almost 400 years later another 8 ships carrying the other one half was brought over. Making a total of 15 ship loads. Sir Henry Sinclair's father also brought over at least 3 ship loads of Knights Templar treasures in 1357. All in all it adds up to about 18 treasure galleons.

 

[ECS]

The simple "fact" is that no Templar Historian (none) dispute the fact that after the raids no vessels owned by the Knights Templar were in port, that's any port. Ms. Lord specifically mentions La Rochelle is where their Atlantic fleet was based...
... Also not effected is the "fact" that these vessels all disappeared in 1307 and "coir" was found on Oak Island dated to before 1300. Which is certain evidence of Knights Templars visiting Oak Island.

Where is the quote from Evelyn Lord or any of these other alleged Templar historians that you refuse to name or cite their sources, that unequivocally states that Templar galleys laden with coconut coir and/or possibly "treasure" disappeared from La Rochelle in 1307.
So far, Loki, your attempt to post semi related random information in support on your bold stroke statements, as with another poster that makes grand claims as fact, neither post any real documentation or sources that actually pertain directly to claims and statements being posted as evidential fact, creating questionable content credibility issues.

 

[ECS]

Since 1307 and 1395 are not that far apart in years their ships would have been relatively the same size... Sir Henry Sinclair brought over 7 treasure galleons in 1398 with one half of the Knights Templar treasures...

You seem not to realize that the first galleon was built in Spain about 150 years AFTER Earl Henry Sinclair's death.
No "treasure galleons" were built in Scotland, so what was the source of Earl Henry's fleet of these 7 "treasure galleons"?

The vessels that were in use in Scotland during Earl Henry's time and up until the early 1600's were called Birlinn, and were far from being a treasure galleon.
The Norse inspired Birlinn was a wooden clinker built open deck vessel powered by sail and 12 to 18 oars with three men to the oar. Steering was accomplished with use of a rudder and sail, working in tandem with the oarsmen.
The sails were a patchwork, made from sewing small squares, and the ropes were course wool woven with moss-fir and or heather.

 

[franklin]

The man with all the answers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

He started out with a question of "Where is the quote . . . ?"

I don't see a lot of "perhaps", or "maybe" or "it might just be possible" in your posts . . . ever. Always confident [sounding] statements. ;-)

But then, the one thing that every one of the world's hundreds of religions and sects share is the supreme confidence that only they have it correct.

 

[ECS]

The man with all the answers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley

Thank you, Franklin, for posting that link that proves my point that Earl Henry Sinclair did NOT have what you called "treasure galleons" on Post#562.

 

[franklin]

I do not Google or Wikepedia every word I post do you? I meant galley and put down galleon, not big deal. You nit pick too much.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Terribly annoying those little "nits" that cause unsupportable premises to fall apart. We should outlaw them so that any foolish theory holds up. Much more entertaining, if not educational, that way.

Those damn "nits" are also responsible for a lot of deaths in experimental aircraft. They are a damned nuisance! Very unhealthy and inconvient.

Ancient Aliens would be much more believable without those annoying "nits".

 

[lokiblossom]

It appears that the onus is on YOU to prove they ended up in Nova Scotia. The ships could have likely (more likely, actually) set sail and sunk hundreds of miles off shore...as you said, "disappeared without trace". There are no "traces" of Templars in Nova Scotia - despite "claims".

The lead cross that was found a couple years ago is IDENTICAL to one I made myself in Art class in 1971 (from all appearances - I don't have the exact measurements. Mine was about 4"x2 1/2". I lost it soon after I made it - perhaps someone found it and subsequently lost in on a beach on Oak Island). Nearly all of the "structures" and artifacts that have been analyzed have been dated to the mid-late 18th Century, 400 years to late for Templars.

Are you saying that nobody, other than the Vikings, could have sailed this old of vessels to North America?

I don't think I ever mentioned a lead cross!!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Where is the quote from Evelyn Lord or any of these other alleged Templar historians that you refuse to name or cite their sources, that unequivocally states that Templar galleys laden with coconut coir and/or possibly "treasure" disappeared from La Rochelle in 1307.
So far, Loki, your attempt to post semi related random information in support on your bold stroke statements, as with another poster that makes grand claims as fact, neither post any real documentation or sources that actually pertain directly to claims and statements being posted as evidential fact, creating questionable content credibility issues.

None of the Templar historians dispute the fact that the Templar fleet disappeared! If you do believe they didn't show the records and I will have to change my point of view, but in none of the discussions on the subject has anyone contested this particular fact. In other words it is a moot point!

Don't have to show your sources, the coir is at Oak Island, it came from the Eastern Mediterranean, it is dated to the correct period, and the Templars are the only ones who could have logically brought it there.

Sort of like solving a crime. If blood from the perpetrator is found at the scene and tested to be type AB-Positive and one of 5 suspects, who are the only ones who could have committed the crime tests AB-Positive, who committed the crime?

Cheers, Loki

 

[DaveVanP]

The Norse inspired Birlinn was a wooden clinker built open deck vessel powered by sail and 12 to 18 oars with three men to the oar. Steering was accomplished with use of a rudder and sail, working in tandem with the oarsmen.
The sails were a patchwork, made from sewing small squares, and the ropes were course wool woven with moss-fir and or heather.

No...no...no...these were TEMPLAR ships...the ropes were of course, made of eastern-Mediterranean coconut coir.

 

[DaveVanP]

Are you saying that nobody, other than the Vikings, could have sailed this old of vessels to North America?

I don't think I ever mentioned a lead cross!!

Cheers, Loki

You, on the other hand, seem have determined that "since the Templars "could have", they DID..."

I mentioned the cross, because it has been so often brought up as "definitive PROOF of a Templar presence on Oak Island". No - only fuel for conjecture.

 

[DaveVanP]

None of the Templar historians dispute the fact that the Templar fleet disappeared!

Cheers, Loki

Was there, in fact, a "fleet"? Are there documented reports stating they left together at the same time, bound for the same destination?

A fleet must have an Admiral, or Commodore; while it is true that a land-lubber Crusader knight could be in over-all charge of the "expedition", but to command a "fleet" underway at sea, it would require a well-experienced sea-faring man...who was that?

I know the fibers that was tested were tenatively ID'ed as "possible coconut fiber", but where in the report did it state that it was from the eastern Mediterranean? The theory that "coconut/palm trees did not exist in the New World before 1500" does not fly because there are Mayan artworks depicting palm trees and coconuts dated to pre-500 C.E., as well as Toltec and Aztec works depicting the same, from the 1200's.

Who else from the eastern Mediterranean "could have" come to North America in the 1300's...let's see...Arabs, Turks, Cypriots, Egyptians, Libyans, Cretans, Greeks... it appears we have SEVEN "crime suspects", ALL with AB+

 

[metrotec]

I think I will go to Nova Scotia and make me a cabbage farm , sell heads and become VERY rich.
Do you get it?

 

[metrotec]

18th degree Scottish Rite was from my ancestor. Like I said, :go sell cabbage heads to get rich"

 

[ECS]

None of the Templar historians dispute the fact that the Templar fleet disappeared! If you do believe they didn't show the records and I will have to change my point of view, but in none of the discussions on the subject has anyone contested this particular fact. In other words it is a moot point!
Don't have to show your sources, the coir is at Oak Island, it came from the Eastern Mediterranean, it is dated to the correct period, and the Templars are the only ones who could have logically brought it there...

Why are you so reluctant on citing these "Templar historians" that you constantly refer as a source of your information?
So any of these "Templar historians" that you refuse to name, Evelyn Lord the exception, also have "facts" that connect this found coconut coir on Oak Island to the Templars that is implied in many of your posts dealing with the great sudden disappearance of a few well worn galleys at La Rochelle?
When you don't name these "Templar historians" except for Lord, it gives the impression that these "Templar historians" of yours are the purveyors of fabricated pseudo fantasy history that NO professional historian gives the least amount of credence; pulp quasi historians like Baigent, Leigh, Lincoln, Picknett, Prince, Ruh, Muir, and Andrew Sinclair.

 

[lokiblossom]

Why are you so reluctant on citing these "Templar historians" that you constantly refer as a source of your information?
So any of these "Templar historians" that you refuse to name, Evelyn Lord the exception, also have "facts" that connect this found coconut coir on Oak Island to the Templars that is implied in many of your posts dealing with the great sudden disappearance of a few well worn galleys at La Rochelle?
When you don't name these "Templar historians" except for Lord, it gives the impression that these "Templar historians" of yours are the purveyors of fabricated pseudo fantasy history that NO professional historian gives the least amount of credence; pulp quasi historians like Baigent, Leigh, Lincoln, Picknett, Prince, Ruh, Muir, and Andrew Sinclair.

Because its all of them, if you don't like it name a historian that claims Templar vessels were still in port after the raids, again a moot point!

And btw they wouldn't have been well worn vessels, they had continually upgraded the fleet since 1150.

"Michael Haag; states, that they possessed their own fleet and built ships in European Ports, everywhere between Spain and the Dalmation Coast".

"Piers Paul Read; writes, by the mid-twelfth century the Templars had built its own fleet of ships".

"Charles Addison; writes, in 1218 the galleys of the Templars set sail from Acre".

"Addison again; In 1222 mentions, the arming of the Templar galleys, galliots and other vessels of the Order". A galliot, being a smaller single masted and faster vessel.

"Addison again; in 1274 at the council of Lyons, the Templars were ordered to build a fleet of warships".

"Addison again, In 1291, the sea was open and the harbor was filled with the galleys of the Templars and Hospital".

"Piers Paul Read; again, In 1293 six galleys were purchased from Venice, that formed part of the fleet that in July 1300 made raids on Egypt and Syria", and in November, transported a force of 600 knights to Ruad".

This certainly isn't all of the events that required vessels, but only the ones I thought deserve mention.

None of this takes into account the Templars main fleet of commercial vessels already in La Rochelle that Evelyn Lord mentions.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

...and ,Loki, all those quotes do not mention or support that the Templars ever made a voyage to Oak Island/Nova Scotia, just superficial quotes stating that the Templars possessed galleys and ships.
Where are the quotes by Addison, Read, Haag, and Lord concerning the "Have Coir-Will Travel" to Oak Island voyage?
Or their quotes that state that the Templar fleet disappeared?
We both know that answer, Loki, on why you only post apples and oranges comparisons with pretzel logic conclusions.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Sort of like solving a crime. If blood from the perpetrator is found at the scene and tested to be type AB-Positive and one of 5 suspects, who are the only ones who could have committed the crime tests AB-Positive, who committed the crime?

But you have nothing as solid as that at Oak Island. It's not "blood from a perpetrator". Its vegetable fiber that might be coir, that might have been used by someone although there is no evidence it actually was, that is 2,500 miles away from where the "perpetrator" had any business being.

I'm no lawyer but I'd take that case to defend a client if that was all the evidence against him.