My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[ECS]

I don't know if that sample of coir got to Nova Scotia prior to 1400 as none of the test conducted are conclusive on an exact date.
Nevertheless, IF, even IF the dating is exact, IT is NOT proof of a Templar visit to Nova Scotia.
All that has been presented concerning the coir is speculation on why and how it was there.
No evidence or proof of anyone bringing the coir to Nova Scotia at all.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[lokiblossom]

I don't know if that sample of coir got to Nova Scotia prior to 1400 as none of the test conducted are conclusive on an exact date.
Nevertheless, IF, even IF the dating is exact, IT is NOT proof of a Templar visit to Nova Scotia.
All that has been presented concerning the coir is speculation on why and how it was there.
No evidence or proof of anyone bringing the coir to Nova Scotia at all.

All of the datings show a prior to 1400 date, actually prior to 1300, and most by Beta Analytic. If not proof or evidence of a Templar presence, "how did it get there"? Remember, there is proof that it didn't come from the Atlantic Basin that early!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

FILE UNDER: Loki Logic

The Templars were in the Middle East in the 14th century
Coconut coir was used in the Middle East in the 14th century
A small amount of Coconut coir was found in Nova Scotia in the 20th century
Therefore, the Templars brought coconut coir to Nova Scotia in the 14th century.

This is not evidence or proof, but what is known as a fallacy.

 

[petetherocker]

All of the datings show a prior to 1400 date, actually prior to 1300,
Cheers, Loki

As others have said it's inconclusive

Appendix --Woods Hole Explores Oak Island
Quote from the site above:

....One potentially interesting finding that was made involved the legendary coconut fibres. The Woods Hole team were taken to a site on the Northeast coast of the island by people from Triton, who 'dug down a bit and produced a handful of fibres from under the sand (Aubrey, 2002).' When analyzed, they were indeed confirmed as material from some species of coconut, possibly of Mediterranean origin but too decayed for a positive identification (Aubrey, 2002)

 

[Raparee]

How do you think the coir got to Nova Scotia prior to 1400ad? This should be good!

Cheers, Loki

If it is coconut, and the rating is correct, it could have arrived here any number of ways. I have found it interesting that of all the people who at that time had access to the material, only the Templars could have brought it here.

Tunnel vision.

 

[Robot]

When One Is Talking About Tunnel Vision...One Should ...Think Outside Of The Box!

If it is coconut, and the rating is correct, it could have arrived here any number of ways. I have found it interesting that of all the people who at that time had access to the material, only the Templars could have brought it here.

Tunnel vision.

 

[lokiblossom]

The Templars were in the Middle East in the 14th century
Coconut coir was used in the Middle East in the 14th century
A small amount of Coconut coir was found in Nova Scotia in the 20th century
Therefore, the Templars brought coconut coir to Nova Scotia in the 14th century.

This is not evidence or proof, but what is known as a fallacy.

Not fallacy, process of elimination!

How did it get to Oak Island?

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Not fallacy, process of elimination!...

Not process of elimination but imaginative speculation!

 

[ECS]

...How did it get to Oak Island?

Considering it was too decayed for positive identification and there exists NO official professional historian accepted collaborating documentation that the Templars ever made a voyage to Nova Scotia, flotsam, jetsam, or some Canadian's discarded doormat.
CHEERS, Loki!

 

[lokiblossom]

Considering it was too decayed for positive identification and there exists NO official professional historian accepted collaborating documentation that the Templars ever made a voyage to Nova Scotia, flotsam, jetsam, or some Canadian's discarded doormat.
CHEERS, Loki!

That was one test, it has been "positively" identified several times and dated as many, most by Beta Analytic, all conclusions are from before 1350ad. So how did it get to Oak Island?

Cheers, Loki

 

[DaveVanP]

Not fallacy, process of elimination!

How did it get to Oak Island?

Cheers, Loki

Did you eliminate Arabs? Perhaps it was Sinbad. He made several voyages, that were, in fact, BETTER documented than those of the Templars.
Please describe the process that DEFINITIVELY eliminates ANY and ALL non-Templars from consideration as ever using coconut coir.

Once that is accomplished I may accept the "Templar Theory" as "possible"....but still a long way from "likely".

 

[franklin]

The Rich do most of the traveling even today. Were not the Knights Templars the richest people on Earth at that time in history. As they were the ones that started the Banking System. Who else would travel to the Orient through the Mediterranean or around Africa to the Orient to get the coconut core?

 

[lokiblossom]

Please describe the process that DEFINITIVELY eliminates ANY and ALL non-Templars from consideration as ever using coconut coir.

I didn't eliminate anybody from using coconut coir, although it wouldn't have been the material of choice in Europe for ships lines and such. Certainly Arabs used it and that's how it got to the Eastern Mediterranean in the first place through overland trading with Indian merchants.

And you are also quite correct in Arab explorations being well documented!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The Rich do most of the traveling even today. Were not the Knights Templars the richest people on Earth at that time in history. As they were the ones that started the Banking System. Who else would travel to the Orient through the Mediterranean or around Africa to the Orient to get the coconut core?

Odd that a sect sworn to poverty would be considered "The Rich". And not even close to the wealth of the pre-Mughal sultans or Chinese Emperors.

I'm pretty sure that "banking" predates the Templars by many thousand years. Babylonian tablets refer to the practice long before Christ, or even Moses, and the Code of Hammurabi gets into topics concerning finance, fraud and interest.

Who else? The Scandanavians ["Vikings"] got as far as Tripoli in Africa in the 11th Century.

 

[ECS]

That was one test, it has been "positively" identified several times and dated as many, most by Beta Analytic, all conclusions are from before 1350ad...

So how many times has that coir sample been passed around for dating until finally one of those labs achieved that date, even though the sample was too decayed and contaminated for any positive identification?
So why do you accept only the findings of Beta Analytic and reject Woods Hole and others analysis that do not support that 1350 CE date?
I believe that answer is rather obvious.

 

[petetherocker]

and just like dated coins found on a beach DO NOT indicate the date they were dropped there, they only indicate the date they were made. Same with the carbon dating, only dates when the material began to decay, NOT the date it was deposited at site.

Sheessshhhhh,

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

For accurate Carbon 14 dating the lab has to use the regional database ("calibration curve") for where the material was when alive and absorbing the Carbon-14. They probably used NE America as if the material was native and natural to that area. Any analysis that depends on "wiggle-match dating" (look it up) should be using multiple fairly large samples (collected without contamination) to reduce possible errors.

And we've already discussed that anything saturated with seawater picks up more ions than a buried sample. Seawater has been around millions of years and cycles the oceans over hundreds and thousands of years. Could be more recent material with "old" C-13 and C-12 ions that skew the proportions vs. C-14 from the seawater inclusion. Lots of variables. They should use more recent and sophisticated dating methods - not that 80 year old method.

Interestingly - it has been found (for the reasons above) that the bones of people who subsisted heavily on seafood tend to test much lower in C-14 than would be expected - giving much "older" interpretations than true age - so it is necessary to "tweak" the Carbon-14 results for a proper age.

 

[ECS]

... The coconut fibre is direct evidence, not proof...

Combined with de Chalons hearsay testimony of having "heard" that 18 galleys set to sea from La Rochelle, the coconut coir still fall short as "direct evidence" of a Templar voyage to Nova Scotia, due to the lack of any other period collaborating documentation.

 

[lokiblossom]

and just like dated coins found on a beach DO NOT indicate the date they were dropped there, they only indicate the date they were made. Same with the carbon dating, only dates when the material began to decay, NOT the date it was deposited at site.

Sheessshhhhh,

The average age that the Oak Island coconuts were picked seems to be around the early 13th century, which had to have happened in either the Indian or Pacific Basins.

It is a known fact that Arabs used coir manufactured by Indians from coconut fibre, in the Eastern Mediterranean.

How did it get to Oak Island?

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Why start making assumptions with no support? How did it get there? Lets looks at the other artifacts and evidence. So far all we can say that if it is coconut coir that it is laying on the upper tide-line. How do most items at the tide line arrive on shore? Tidal action.

Did they recently check additional samples or is this still the stuff that was removed from a museum shelf by Triton and delivered to the lab for testing?

Unless a lab technician collected samples I wouldn't build much of a backstory on so shaky of a foundation. The original sample was so degraded they couldn't determine what the fiber was from originally.

I'd also like to see the original report. The ALWAYS give a probability for a range of ages (i.e.: 75% probable that sample "x" is 400 years BCE). They would not have stated a specific year in the past.