My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[lokiblossom]

On POST# 213 on this thread, Franklin responded that 'both" were there.
The question still remains, did de Villers along with other escaped Templars from La Rochelle sail with Sinclair to Nova Scotia, and is de Villers listed with the Templars in Diana Jean Muir's "THE LOST JOURNALS OF PRINCE HENRY SINCLAIR"?

There is some indication that de Villers was not an old man in 1307, so assuming he was in his 40's in 1307 I doubt if he would have accompanied Sinclair in 1398 or what ever year Sinclair is said to have made the trip. As I mentioned, Sinclair is Franklin's area and he knows much more about it than me!

Cheers, Loki

 

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[ECS]

Unless of course de Villers was a French Templar vampyre and traveled with Sinclair to Nova Scotia in a coffin containing soil from his homeland packed with coconut coir. At night, while all were asleep, de Villers piloted Sinclair's Saint Katherine and took an occasional sip from the neck of a fellow Templar on board.
Once on Oak Island, de Villers got out of hand with blood craves, and began a feeding frenzy which Sir Henry Sinclair ended with an iron ship spike to the heart, and placing a lead cross on the vampyre's forehead, burying de Villers at the bottom of a deep pit that was constructed in sectioned layers, separated by oak planks and a layer of coconut coir.
That's the way it happened, give or take a fabrication or two, or maybe three.
Rewriting history is fun, after all.

 

[ARC]

They have nothing new, which is why Gary D still has a job, there is always hope, as Rick constantly reminds everyone

That Gary guy is NOT an "expert" in anything except getting lucky... Period.

As far as a detectorists goes... he holds no skills above or beyond most mid level detectorists.

IMO.. he is slow as molasses as far as getting ground covered / checked / cleared.

 

[lokiblossom]

Unless of course de Villers was a French Templar vampyre and traveled with Sinclair to Nova Scotia in a coffin containing soil from his homeland packed with coconut coir. At night, while all were asleep, de Villers piloted Sinclair's Saint Katherine and took an occasional sip from the neck of a fellow Templar on board.
Once on Oak Island, de Villers got out of hand with blood craves, and began a feeding frenzy which Sir Henry Sinclair ended with an iron ship spike to the heart, and placing a lead cross on the vampyre's forehead, burying de Villers at the bottom of a deep pit that was constructed in sectioned layers, separated by oak planks and a layer of coconut coir.
That's the way it happened, give or take a fabrication or two, or maybe three.
Rewriting history is fun, after all.

I guess thats what you do if your losing a debate?

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Just some speculation based on minimal "facts" similar to your suppositions, except presented as a bit of comic relief.

 

[sasquash]

Unless of course de Villers was a French Templar vampyre and traveled with Sinclair to Nova Scotia in a coffin containing soil from his homeland packed with coconut coir. At night, while all were asleep, de Villers piloted Sinclair's Saint Katherine and took an occasional sip from the neck of a fellow Templar on board.
Once on Oak Island, de Villers got out of hand with blood craves, and began a feeding frenzy which Sir Henry Sinclair ended with an iron ship spike to the heart, and placing a lead cross on the vampyre's forehead, burying de Villers at the bottom of a deep pit that was constructed in sectioned layers, separated by oak planks and a layer of coconut coir.
That's the way it happened, give or take a fabrication or two, or maybe three.
Rewriting history is fun, after all.

 

[ARC]

Man I am sure glad I have not tuned in to Oak Island this whole time... I only catch the re-runs... what a waste of time that would have been.

 

[ECS]

...
The Templar's were based in the Middle East during that time with a headquarters on Cyprus late in the 13th century until the early 14th.
The Templar Grand Master was summoned from Cyprus by the Pope to Poiters, France in late 1306. de Molay left Cyprus with a large retinue of his forces and much of their treasure, more than likely with coir ropes and packing in their holds in early 1307 knowing full well of the impending trouble for his Order.
Once in French port they would not have unloaded their vessels awaiting whatever trouble came their way.
In September of 1307, one month before the arrests of all Templars in France the vessels along with 2nd in Command of the Order Gerard de Villers left port never to be seen again, more than likely with large amounts of coir still on board.
de Villers who is said to have been elected the new Grand Master of the Order (de Molay had been among those arrested on October 13), became the most wanted man in France shortly after this...

For what reason did the Pope summon the Templar Grand Master from Cyprus to Poiters, France in late 1306?

If de Molay knew "full well of the impending trouble for his Order" why did he stay in France for 11 months, retaining his friendship with King Phillip IV, and attending the funeral of Phillip IV's sister-in-law, Princess Catherine of Courteney as a pallbearer the day before his arrest on October Friday 13,1307.
That does not appear to be the actions of a man who was well aware on "impending troubles", and academic Templar historians agree that the arrest came as a surprise and that the Templars had NO time to plan an escape.
*NOTE* The Pope issued an arrest order for all Templars in November, 12 months after his summoning the Grand Master from Cyprus.

What port did the galleys from Cyprus dock? Collioure on the Mediterranean where they usually arrived from Cyprus and traveled the road to La Rochelle, or sail through the Straight of Gibraltar to La Rochelle on the Atlantic?
Are you claiming that the galleys from Cyprus were not unloaded for 9 months while in port?

What is the source of Gerard de Villers and his band of Templars leaving port a month before the surprise arrests?

 

[lokiblossom]

For what reason did the Pope summon the Templar Grand Master from Cyprus to Poiters, France in late 1306?

If de Molay knew "full well of the impending trouble for his Order" why did he stay in France for 11 months, retaining his friendship with King Phillip IV, and attending the funeral of Phillip IV's sister-in-law, Princess Catherine of Courteney as a pallbearer the day before his arrest on October Friday 13,1307.
That does not appear to be the actions of a man who was well aware on "impending troubles", and academic Templar historians agree that the arrest came as a surprise and that the Templars had NO time to plan an escape.
*NOTE* The Pope issued an arrest order for all Templars in November, 12 months after his summoning the Grand Master from Cyprus.

What port did the galleys from Cyprus dock? Collioure on the Mediterranean where they usually arrived from Cyprus and traveled the road to La Rochelle, or sail through the Straight of Gibraltar to La Rochelle on the Atlantic?
Are you claiming that the galleys from Cyprus were not unloaded for 9 months while in port?

What is the source of Gerard de Villers and his band of Templars leaving port a month before the surprise arrests?

Have you never attended a funeral for someone that was also attended by someone you didn't care for? Not saying that was for sure the case as there was also a possible diplomatic situation involved. For instance the Templar Grand Master in Britain had a seat in Parliament.

Where or how did you arrive at the arbitrary figures of 11 and 9 months? Sources?

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

...

Where or how did you arrive at the arbitrary figures of 11 and 9 months? Sources?

From your statement that I referenced in my Post #248.
Are you now claiming your dates and information was arbitrary wrong?

 

[lokiblossom]

From your statement that I referenced in my Post #248.
Are you now claiming your dates and information was arbitrary wrong?

My post does not say that, please remove!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

My post does not say that, please remove!

Maybe not what you meant, but what it implies.
You also stated in that quote that these galleys remained in port several months and were never unloaded due to "whatever trouble came their way".
You do realize that the Pope summoning de Molay from Cyprus had nothing to do with King Phillip IV arrests almost a year later and has nothing to do with the galleys anchored at La Rochelle port for months unloaded because of a perceived belief of trouble coming their way.
That is supposition and speculation.

 

[franklin]

What else is there. If we knew all the answers we would not be on a forum we would be rich beyond our dreams of Everest.

 

[lokiblossom]

Maybe not what you meant, but what it implies.
You also stated in that quote that these galleys remained in port several months and were never unloaded due to "whatever trouble came their way".
You do realize that the Pope summoning de Molay from Cyprus had nothing to do with King Phillip IV arrests almost a year later and has nothing to do with the galleys anchored at La Rochelle port for months unloaded because of a perceived belief of trouble coming their way.
That is supposition and speculation.

I did not even indicate that, settle this!

 

[lokiblossom]

The Templar Grand Master was summoned from Cyprus by the Pope to Poiters, France in late 1306. de Molay left Cyprus with a large retinue of his forces and much of their treasure, more than likely with coir ropes and packing in their holds in early 1307 knowing full well of the impending trouble for his Order. Once in French port they would not have unloaded their vessels awaiting whatever trouble came their way.

This is what I posted that you are referring to so how do you get 11 months in port from this statement?

 

[ECS]

Whether it was 11 months or 5 months, you still claimed these galleys remain in the port of La Rochelle with their cargo unloaded because of "knowing full well of the impending trouble for his Order".
Did you or did you not make this statement?

 

[lokiblossom]

My purpose with providing this theory is to garner support (not funds) for investigating the actual location of this treasure. A site that I have already recently visited. I don't believe this violates the rules of the forum, but will stand down if asked to by the forum moderators. While starting at what I call the beginning, I will add more information as time permits. The story I will tell eventually concerns a visit to Oak Island and ends near Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia.

Part I,
Troyes France 1099: The Holy Land (Palestine) had just been won through the results of the 1st Crusade, and in Troyes The Count of Champagne, Hugh I, who preferred the Title Count of Troyes kept a keen eye to the events unfolding there. He had already heard from the local Rabbi called Rashi about the Ark of the Covenant which had been hidden below the first Temple built by Solomon. It is well known that most Rabbis of the period felt that the Ark was indeed in caverns below the Old Temple.
At the same time it was also well known that the Church was on the hunt for religious relics that could help prove the story of Christianity to their congregations.
Rashi was very famous in Troyes in the very early 12th century as well as in the Court of Champagne located in Troyes. Evidently using information learned from Rashi (who died in 1105) Count Hugh and his Vassel Hughes de Payens went to the Holy Land in 1104. Returning to Troyes in 1108 the two men then founded an order of Knights called "La Milice of Christ", which had as its main objective to uncover religious relics from the area of the Old Temple of Solomon, at this time the location of the Dome of the Rock.
In about 1113 a little known monk named Bernard along with some thirty men from Burgundy (mostly his own relatives) joined the new Cistercian Order at Citeaux Abbey near Dijon. In 1115 Bernard received donated lands from Hugh I for a new abbey at Claire Vallee, or Clairvaux, near Troyes and from then on he is to be known as Bernard of Clairvaux. From this point on Bernard becomes the main campaigner for the, La Milice of Christ.
By 1118 this new supposed military order has nine members, all relatives of Count Hugh and or Hughes de Payens and has adopted the official name of "The Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon", or more simply "Knights Templar" with de Payens as its first Grand Master. As they have been for a few years already this group of Knights continues to excavate under the Temple area and also throughout Jerusalem for highly sought after Christian religious objects. Although we only have the names of eight of these first Templars, it is almost certain that Count Hugh is the ninth member but remains unnamed as such.
This excavation being undertaken at the old Temple Mount is well documented, but what was actually found there (if anything) is open to much conjecture.
It is my opinion that if anything had been found that would help to prove the position and doctrine of the Church it would have been immediately turned over by this staunch Catholic Order.
But what if they had found something from the still existing Christian Church of Jerusalem, the Church that was originally headed by the brother of Jesus, James, that they believed went against the then current orthodoxy?
It is certain whatever it was would be taken back to Troyes and for at least the near future been housed at The Court Of Champagne.
From this humble beginning the Knights Templar Order blossoms into a powerful military organization and begins to actually carry out the original stated purpose of their mission, the protection of pilgrims visiting the Holy Land. Also becoming at the same time very wealthy, a trend that would continue for most of the rest of their existence.
In Troyes a few years later a story is told of brave Knights searching for an object eventually referred to as "The Holy Grail".
In 1181 Chretien de Troyes (Chretien of Troyes), a poet who served his patron Marie, Countess of Champagne, was requested by her to write a romance, nconcerning a sacred object called the "Grail" with brave Knights searching for it, a romance he called "Perceval, the story of the Grail". Although unfinished by Chretien, another did complete the story, Robert de Boron. de Boron connected this Grail to the Christian story calling it "The Holy Grail". Another version of the Grail story was composed by Wolfram Von Eschenbach who identified the guardians of this object as Knights Templars. It is for certain that what I call the Troyes connection cannot be overestimated. Also mentioned is a Grail mountain where the Holy Grail was hidden called, "Montsalvat", an obvious connection to a Mountain in the Languedoc area of France named Montsegur, As discussed by the man many call the original Indiana Jones, Otto Rahn. Rahn believed that the Holy Grail had been hid in the Sacred mountain by the Cathar's in the early 13th century. I will discuss both Rahn and the Cathar's relations to my theory a little later. End of part I

Adjusted Theory Part I, Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Part II,

As the Templars became a more militant force they also began to acquire sea going vessels and galleys (note; in the early to high middle ages the term"galley"was used generically for any oared or oared with sail type of vessel). From about the middle of the 11 hundreds until 1293 there is documentation that they continually added to their fleet through purchases or by building their own vessels. Most of these would have been of Venetian design, as that type is mentioned many times. "In 1293 they had bought 6 Venetian ships to add to those that in 1300 made a number of raids on the coast of Egypt and Syria, and in November of that year, transported a force of 600 knights to Ruad as a base for an assault on Tortosa" paraphrased from Piers Paul Read's "The Templars".
In 1300 the Templars had ports at Cyprus (after the fall of Acre, their Eastern Headquarters) Marseille, France ( where they were not very welcome), at Collioure, France, and at La Rochelle, France.
At La Rochelle, a port that they had been given control of through an 1139 Charter by Eleanor of Aquitaine, "Queen of France" they enjoyed a very lucrative wine trade. Evidently this trade extended all the way to Briton as they also had a license to operate commercial shipping operations to that country.
In the Templars Paris Headquarters, "Temple Villeneuve", they kept most of their wealth, but on Cyprus, the Eastern Headquarters, they also had a great amount of acquired treasure.
They had received, through donations, large amounts of lands and houses throughout Europe, mostly in France, but even in faraway Scotland there were some 100 separate Templar properties.
As the Templars were building this vast treasure, at the same time a religious group was gathering members in the area around Toulouse, now the Languedoc of Southern France.
Today, they are called the Cathars, a name given to them by their adversaries, the hierarchy of the Roman Church. But in the 12th century they were befriended by the local Catholic Congregations, so much so in fact that in the Crusade that shortly followed in 1209 many Catholics died trying to protect them. Evidently their form of religion did not offend the average Catholic, which makes one wonder why the Church itself thought it necessary to completely wipe out what they called the great heresy.
The last stand of the Cathars was at the mountain pog of Montsegur, where on March 16, 1244, many of the surrendering defenders were burnt in a funeral pyre. Two days prior to this event and according to German author Otto Rahn's 1939 book "Crusade Against the Grail"(from information he gleaned from inquisition records), 4 knights descended the steep cliffs of Montsegur on ropes and carried away a great secret. Rahn also claimed that the Grail itself was hidden in the mountain.
Although there is no evidence the Templars fought on either side during this conflict, there is evidence that they did exist alongside, befriended and had relatives within the heretics following.
Legends tell us, as did the earlier Grail romances that the Templars held the secret of the Grail and after Montsegur in 1244, a physical proof had come into the possession of the Templars.
By the end of the 13th century the Knights Templar had become one of the wealthiest organizations in Europe and, as I premise they held documentation as to the secret of the Holy Grail as well as the Grail itself.
In late 1306 Pope Clement V (a pawn of the King of France, Philip IV), ordered the then Grand Master of the Templars, Jacques de Molay, who at the time was at the Cyprus Headquarters, to come back to France "without delay" and not to bring any Knights with him as he already had many in France. The alleged purpose of this visit was to make plans for a new crusade in the Holy Land, but in reality it was part of a plan of Philips to arrest all the Templars in France and end the existence of the order entirely, with the extended purpose of acquiring their immense wealth held in Temple Villeneuve.
But de Molay knew of the plan, the Templars had friends and allies throughout France, in the Church and even in the Court of Philip himself.
In early 1307 the Grand Master left Cyprus bound for France with (according to Templar historian Charles Addison) 60 Knights, 150,000 florins of gold and a great amount of silver and other treasures, The 60 Knights directly a violation of Clements order.
With each Templar Knight known to own at least three horses and having also at least one squire, as well as the sailors and equipment and the Grand Master with his own entourage, it must have been quite an impressive scene.
With the meeting to have been held in Poitiers, it would have been beneficial for the small fleet (I premise 10 vessels) to sail around the Iberian peninsula and land at the Templar controlled port of La Rochelle. In the late 13th century this type of voyage (around the Iberian peninsula) was becoming more popular, as a matter of fact some 117 years earlier Richard the Lionheart had sent his whole British Fleet around the Iberian.
In early September of 1307, Philip issued a secret order for the arrest of all Templars in France to be carried out of October 13, 1307. This order was sent to all of the sheriffs in France, and again there is no way de Molay could not have received word of this event.
It is doubtful he would have even unloaded the ships valuable cargo's at La Rochelle (a possibility only because they basically owned this port), knowing that they would soon have to make an escape.
The end part II

Adjusted Theory Part II/ Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Part III

This from "The Knights Templar in Britain" by Evelyn Lord, pg 120 "Their main fleet was in La Rochelle, and it was this fleet, berthed away from the theatre of war, that was part of the maritime network linking the order in the British Isles, with the continent."

With the some 10 vessels I premised recently arriving from Cyprus it would be easy to accept the possibility of 18 ships docked at La Rochelle in early September of 1307.
What is called a rumor by detractors of the story from "Holy Blood Holy Grail" of 18 ships leaving La Rochelle, is much more than merely a rumor. It is actually part of a statement made by Jean de Chalons, preceptor of the Temple commandery in Namur during the investigation into Templar activities in Poitou.
de Chalons testimony, now in the archives of the Vatican, "The leaders of the order, expecting the trouble, have fled, and he himself met the brother Gerard de Villiers [Master of France], who had 50 horses with him, and heard people talking that [Gerard] put to sea with 18 galleys and the brother Hughes de Pairaud." To the question, how he managed to keep this secret for so long, he answered, "nobody for anything in the world would dare to reveal it...for if the order's officials would have found out that somebody had let out the secret he would have been killed straight away."
According to a report by Templar Historian Edward Zaborovsky, there were at least 12 very important escapees wanted by the French Crown, one of these men Gerard de Villiers (The Master of France, and many believe the new Grand Master of the Order)was never seen or heard from again. We also discover an inner secret order that should not be a surprise as all orders seem to have an inner circle. In citing a document in the Vatican Archives, Zaborovsky writes, "The brother Hugues de Chalon, the nephew of the visiter and brother of Gerard de Montclair, warriors of the Order of the Sect of the Temple, together with some accomplices from the same sect planned to kill the King." And we also know that during the burning of Jacques de Molay in 1314, he called upon the King and the Pope to both follow him in death within the year. This did happen which leads us to believe the Inner Sect of the Temple was alive and well.
Zaborovsky also writes that any of those who wanted to escape had every opportunity to do so, telling us that at least 2500 French Knights were unaccounted for.
The 18 or so vessels alleged to be at La Rochelle left port with evidently the Templar treasure from Cyprus as well as those treasures held in Paris, sometime in September of 1307 never to be heard from again.
18 vessels, where did they go? There have been many theory's, turning to piracy being one of them, but it is widely understood that many went to Portugal. In Portugal, King Diniz, rather than arrest or prosecute the Templars, reconstituted them into a new order called "The Order of Christ". Any escaping France Templars were warmly welcomed into the order.
History tells us that the Order of Christ was involved in seafaring activities even to the founding of the famed navigators school at Sagres by the then Grand Master of the Order, Prince Henry the Navigator. This Order of Christ is also known to have financed the first great wave of Portuguese seagoing explorations. As a matter of fact, the legendary Portuguese explorer, Vasco de Gama was actually a member of the Order of Christ.
But what of the legends of some Templars escaping to Scotland? At the time it was relatively safe from the arm of the Church and the French King, and there were many Templar holdings already there. In Scotland only two Templars were ever arrested, and those by English authorities who in 1309 had control of a small portion of Scotland which included Holyrood Abbey, where the trials took place.
There was also a small abbey in the western highlands that was built in the mid-13th century for a Cistercian style order, remember the Templars themselves were basically Cistercian. Called the Valliscaulians, (latin for "The Valley Fold) the abbey itself was called the Ardchattan Priory. With the events concerning the arrests of the order happening in late 1307, it is doubtful if any news of this could have reached Ardchattan until the spring of 1308.
End of part III

Adjusted Theory Part III/ Cheers, Loki

 

[tinpan]

Adjusted Theory Part I, Cheers, Loki

Adjusted Theory Part III/ Cheers, Loki

Hi According to some of Portugal's Treasures your talking rubbish again . Clearly seen the painting known as the Kings Fountain that Africans held positions in all levels of society and in institutions . Portuguese Africa Silver Salt Canisters and Japanese Panel Art. Images clearly show that Portuguese Traders traded East. Sorry when did Africans join these latter Templars and Freemasons in Britain and North America ? TP