My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[tinpan]

Hi A PAPAL BULL is a sort of a Public Decree made by the Pope on behalf of the Catholic Church.

Pastoralis Praeeminentiae issued to All Christian Monarchs 22 November 1307 Arrest all Templars and seize all their property on behalf of the Catholic Church . So how do you come to the conclusion that this was a secret arrest conspiracy and the Christian nobility of Scotland was except ? Well the Papal Bull is clear . More rubbish conjured from cutting up bs history books TP

 

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[lokiblossom]

Part IV

There is some evidence of a Templar presence in the Western Highlands of Scotland in about 1308. Robert the Bruce while preparing to rid Scotland of the English had a secret meeting at the small Abbey of Ardchattan housing a sister order to their own in early 1308. It is said he met with a leader of one of the Western Clans, but being secret nobody knows for sure. I premise he had met with a group of Templars who had wintered at Ardchattan, more that likely to discover their intentions. At the same time a few English and Scottish Knights in the know (of the inner circle) would have shown up at the Priory.
One of the more famous photos in the Jesus, Mary Magdalene, bloodline theory is of a stained glass window in a small church on the Isle of Mull, very near to Ardchattan Priory. A photo that obviously shows a very pregnant Mary Magdalene walking hand in hand with Jesus.
There are also carved stone graveslabs in the Western Highlands that some believe represent Templar Knights. This is questioned by many detractors, who claim they only represent local Scottish Knights. Of course this may be true in part, but I have seen most of them and a few must be questioned. And one fact that gets overlooked is that they do represent an immediate change in the type and quality of the actual carvings that occurred in the very early 12th century in this area of Scotland. In other words, it seems that better qualified stone carvers showed up in the Western Highlands at the beginning of the 1300s.
There was quite a bit of Norse descent (DNA) in this part of Scotland within the Clan Leaders themselves. Even in 1308 the Norse were still making a few voyages to the Greenland Settlements. My premise includes a Norse (Viking), Templar, connection at various times between the acquiring of their first houses in Scotland until the Orders vessels arrived at Ardchattan. A connection that resulted in the knowledge of a water route to the Vikings Vinland. A map that today could have been drawn on a bar napkin.
With knowledge of a new navigation tool not available to the Vikings, the cross staff, giving them the ability to determine latitude accurately they would, in my opinion, have left for Vinland not much later than early summer of 1308. The newer vessels were already some 14 years old with at most a 25 year lifespan,and there was also the possibility of discovery by English or even French authorities.
The routes the Norse had used for some three centuries contained no over water legs of longer then around 250 miles, even to the settlement on Newfoundland.
During the heyday of these legends detractors have always maintained that Templar vessels could not have made these voyages as they couldn't carry enough water and the vessels themselves could not take the rough seas of the Atlantic. But with only about 250 mile legs, I posit water would not be a problem and their seaworthiness had already been well proven after years in the Mediterranean.
Certainly the Vikings had made this same voyage in vessels even smaller then the Templar vessels 300 years earlier.

Adjusted Theory Part IV/ Cheers, Loki

 

[tinpan]

Adjusted Theory Part IV/ Cheers, Loki

Hi .High level of DNA from Norway in Cornwall Cornwall DNA is not a high level Saxon or Norman . Ancient Briton to be correct . Funny wonder what the Cornish where trading with the Turkish in 6 century after the Romans left . And in Norway theres more than 1000 people tested with a higher Cornish DNA than than of Norway DNA . More historical rubbish conjured from a bs TP

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Sooo . . . we have perhaps established Templars in Scotland. 2,600 miles to go to get them discretely to Nova Scotia and then away again without leaving a trace.

 

[ECS]

...
In 1181 Chretien de Troyes (Chretien of Troyes), a poet who served his patron Marie, Countess of Champagne, was requested by her to write a romance, concerning a sacred object called the "Grail" with brave Knights searching for it, a romance he called "Perceval, the story of the Grail".
Although unfinished by Chretien, another did complete the story, Robert de Boron. de Boron connected this Grail to the Christian story calling it "The Holy Grail" and identified the Knights as Templars. It is for certain that in this part of the story, what I call the Troyes connection cannot be overestimated.
de Boron, also mentioned a Grail mountain where the Holy Grail was hidden called, "Montsalvat", an obvious connection to a Mountain in the Languedoc area of France named Montsegur,
As discussed by the man many call the original Indiana Jones, Otto Rahn. Rahn believed that the Holy Grail had been hid in the Sacred mountain by the Cathar's in the early 13th century...

Otto Rahn was no "Indiana Jones, nor even an archeologist, but a non descript conventional historian enthralled with the Grail romance legends.
A true fanatic devotee of von Eschenbach and Wagner , he wrote " Crusade Against The Grail" based on his beliefs, NOT on fact. but it did attract the attention of Heinrich Himmler.
Rahn jumped at the commission to the SS Abnenerbe with rank of Obersturmfuhrer for three meals day, a black Hugo Bass designer uniform, unlimited funds to search for the Grail, and a team of SS Abnenerbe archeologist at his disposal.
Rahn believed the Grail was the sacred stone, "lapis exilis", not the cup of Christ, and in his zealous conclusion based on various Grail romance tales, sacred geometry relation to other Holy sites, Montsavat became Montsegur of the Cathars, the Grail would not have been removed from such a Holy site, but hidden in a secret location in Montsegur known only to the Cathar Elders, and the Grail Knight Parsifal was a Cathar.
Himmler was displeased with Rahn with his total failure if producing evidence of Montsegur's underground passages containing the Grail and other religious artifacts, and Rahn was forced to resign.
Otto Rahn was last seen alive climbing Kurstein Mountain accompanied by two members of the SS, and his frozen body was found, March 13, 1939, a few weeks after his "resignation".
Otto Rahn is NOT considered as legitimate proof concerning the Frail, Cathers, and Templars.

 

[sasquash]

Otto Rahn was no "Indiana Jones, nor even an archeologist, but a non descript conventional historian enthralled with the Grail romance legends.
A true fanatic devotee of von Eschenbach and Wagner , he wrote " Crusade Against The Grail" based on his beliefs, NOT on fact. but it did attract the attention of Heinrich Himmler.
Rahn jumped at the commission to the SS Abnenerbe with rank of Obersturmfuhrer for three meals day, a black Hugo Bass designer uniform, unlimited funds to search for the Grail, and a team of SS Abnenerbe archeologist at his disposal.
Rahn believed the Grail was the sacred stone, "lapis exilis", not the cup of Christ, and in his zealous conclusion based on various Grail romance tales, sacred geometry relation to other Holy sites, Montsavat became Montsegur of the Cathars, the Grail would not have been removed from such a Holy site, but hidden in a secret location in Montsegur known only to the Cathar Elders, and the Grail Knight Parsifal was a Cathar.
Himmler was displeased with Rahn with his total failure if producing evidence of Montsegur's underground passages containing the Grail and other religious artifacts, and Rahn was forced to resign.
Otto Rahn was last seen alive climbing Kurstein Mountain accompanied by two members of the SS, and his frozen body was found, March 13, 1939, a few weeks after his "resignation".
Otto Rahn is NOT considered as legitimate proof concerning the Frail, Cathers, and Templars.

Good point !

 

[ARC]

Hi A PAPAL BULL is a sort of a Public Decree made by the Pope on behalf of the Catholic Church.

Pastoralis Praeeminentiae issued to All Christian Monarchs 22 November 1307 Arrest all Templars and seize all their property on behalf of the Catholic Church . So how do you come to the conclusion that this was a secret arrest conspiracy and the Christian nobility of Scotland was except ? Well the Papal Bull is clear . More rubbish conjured from cutting up bs history books TP

And eventually disbanded by the pope 1312.

The ones who survived along with King Dinis I of Portugal created "The Order Of Christ" in 1317... which was the beginning of the far more secretive society / order.

 

[ARC]

Bah ... read Tins post wrong... heh

"as you were".. :P

 

[lokiblossom]

Theory Part V

After, what would probably have been an arduous voyage following the route the Vikings constantly used to reach their Greenland farms, later Newfoundland and their storied Vinland;

In mid-1308, after sailing South along the Atlantic Coast the few Templar vessels arrived at the Vikings Vinland (conjecture, as we are not sure where the Vikings Vinland was exactly),of Nova Scotia looking for a site to rest themselves and repair vessels. At Oak Island they found such a location, but is there any outside evidence of this?

Although a secret mission they did leave traces that indicate the presence of a group that had recently (just over a year ago) left the Middle East, Cyprus to be exact. In Cyprus and the rest of the areas of the Far Eastern Mediterranean a material known as "coir" was used for ships ropes and packing in holds of cargo vessels. Made from coconut fibre that during the period in question was only produced in the Far East (China, India, ect.) India being the country that is actually confirmed as a major producer of the coir and India is known to have traded with countries of the Eastern Mediterranean.

On Oak Island, coconut fibre was found and dated in 1993 by Beta Analytic to about 1229 ad give or take some 70 years. Beta also indicated that 'coconut fibre' was an ideal substance to date.
In 1970, samples of fibre from the beach at Smith's Cove were sent to the Chief Botanist at the National museum of Natural Sciences, Canada; He wrote that three of the four samples were coconut fibre, indicating that sometimes other types of materials are accidentally picked off the beach mixed in with or mistaken for the coconut fibre.

At that time coconuts did not exist anywhere in the Atlantic Basin, including The Mediterranean or The Caribbean. They were only introduced to the Atlantic in 1499 by Portuguese sailors.

If any other sailors had visited both the Middle East and Vinland during the period in question ie, such as the Portuguese, although unlikely, it would have been well recorded as all voyages of discovery were. But why would they load a cargo in the Eastern Mediterranean then sail to their own Western Mediterranean port and later take that same cargo to the far Western Atlantic region?

Next up, "Clues" if you hide something that must be found lifetimes later you must leave clues that will last lifetimes!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Hi A PAPAL BULL is a sort of a Public Decree made by the Pope on behalf of the Catholic Church.

Pastoralis Praeeminentiae issued to All Christian Monarchs 22 November 1307 Arrest all Templars and seize all their property on behalf of the Catholic Church . So how do you come to the conclusion that this was a secret arrest conspiracy and the Christian nobility of Scotland was except ? Well the Papal Bull is clear . More rubbish conjured from cutting up bs history books TP

I don't understand a lot of your posts tp, but I will ask you this one question, how many Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities?
Actually no Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities!

 

[lokiblossom]

And eventually disbanded by the pope 1312.

The ones who survived along with King Dinis I of Portugal created "The Order Of Christ" in 1317... which was the beginning of the far more secretive society / order.

I mostly agree with this AARC (please read my post #259) except for "The ones who survived" as I don't believe that "all" those who survived went to Portugal.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... I will ask you this one question, how many Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities?

Two were arrested and placed on trial in 1309. One testified that the Preceptor of Blancradok, Jean de Hueflete and "the other brethren , having heard of the arrests if the Templars, threw off their habits and fled".
Just like de Villers, who most likely did the same, were never heard from again.
The charges against the two Scottish Templars were dropped and were free to go, even with the testimony presented against them by the two Sinclair brothers from Rosslyn.

*NOTE* John of Forum ( birth?-1385), priest at St Machary's Cathedral in Aberdeen, wrote the 5 volume history of the Scottish people, Chronica Gentis Scotorum, the last entry dated 1385, and there is NO mention of the Templars in this contemporary medieval work.
No mention of French Templars escaping to Scotland, no mention of the Templar trial in 1309, and NO mention of Lord Sinclair of Rosslyn leading a 300 Templar cavalry at the Battle of Bannockburn.
There is mention of Sir Robert de Keth's Scotts cavalry at the Battle of Bannockburn.

 

[lokiblossom]

I don't understand a lot of your posts tp, but I will ask you this one question, how many Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities?
Actually no Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities!

Cheers, Loki

 

[tinpan]

Cheers, Loki

Hi You edited your original Question some hours later and reposted with your answer . Is there something wrong with you. WTF

 

[tinpan]

Hi Believe like many that fell from grace they lived the life walking the Pilgrims Ways .Living in religous obscurity with many others till their end. TP

 

[lokiblossom]

Hi You edited your original Question some hours later and reposted with your answer . Is there something wrong with you. WTF

Nope, just fixing your mistake in writing that Scotland would have arrested Templars because, as I replied, Scotland never did!

Edward II who was in control of everything South of Stirling including Balantrodoch had the Templars arrested at of the insistence of the Pope.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

...
Actually no Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities!

Actually two Templars were arrested and tried in Scotland, 1309, but after their testimony, were found not guilty and let go.
Read my POST #272 above on this thread.

 

[ECS]

...Edward II who was in control of everything South of Stirling including Balantrodoch had the Templars arrested at of the insistence of the Pope.

A PAPAL INQUISITION was held at Holyrood in 1309. Two Scottish Templar Knights appeared before this tribunal trial, Walter de Clifton, Grand Preceptor of Scotland and William de Middelton, and found innocent of the charges.
Edward II did dismiss the Pope's charges, stated that the Templars served his forebear, Richard I, with honour and courage during the Crusades.
PS: This has nothing to do with the premise that the Templars sailed to Nova Scotia for the purpose of hiding treasure and Holy relics, just an interesting real historical sidebar that adds no proof for this threads topic title.

 

[franklin]

A PAPAL INQUISITION was held at Holyrood in 1309. Two Scottish Templar Knights appeared before this tribunal trial, Walter de Clifton, Grand Preceptor of Scotland and William de Middelton, and found innocent of the charges.
Edward II did dismiss the Pope's charges, stated that the Templars served his forebear, Richard I, with honour and courage during the Crusades.
PS: This has nothing to do with the premise that the Templars sailed to Nova Scotia for the purpose of hiding treasure and Holy relics, just an interesting real historical sidebar that adds no proof for this threads topic title.

Edward II had the two Scottish Templars arrested but they were not arrested in Scotland nor tried in Scotland. Is that not true ECS? Then you are not answering lokiblossom's question correctly? Right?

 

[ECS]

Two different trials, one was in Scotland where the Sinclair brothers testified against the two Scottish Templars, the other was in England for English Templars.
The English trials were conducted October 22,1309 to March 18, 1310 by the Abbot of Lagny and Secard de Vaur.
The charge was whether a Grand Master could grant absolution, mist said no and were set free.
Templar Willian de la More was the hold out concerning the absolution, and spent the rest of his life in the Tower of London.