More Interesting New Findings From The Beale Ciphers

[ECS]

...
Have you ever thought to look into the papers of Clark, Governor of the Territories. He could easily exchange $13,000 of jewelry for silver. Or the Chateau Family founders of St. Louis. It had to be someone trustworthy enough not to let the word out about the silver.

Do you really think that Governor William Clark, husband of Julia Hancock, would work a deal with the Thomas Beale of the famous duel?
The aforementioned Kennerlys would also recognize the Beale name.
The Chouteau, Lisa, Labbadie families were all in the fur trading business and were partners in the Bank of St Louis that was formed in 1816, and would have had a written transaction report.
A silversmith is not a jeweler, and basic research will reveal that St Louis's first jewelry was opened a good 7 years (1829) after the alleged Beale period.
As with everything Beale, there is no evidence to support a trade of silver for jewels ever occurred outside of the narrative text of the story.

 

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[45th_Johnny]

I still believe the treasure in question came from the Santa Rosa, it was carrying GOLD, SILVER and JEWELS, when it was sacked by Lafitte. But what does it matter how they got it, they needed a story for provenance. Nothing else could explain it. Leave Lafitte out, because he was or was not dead at the time the deposits. If you accept that the treasure was real who cares where it came from, the rest we now know was probably window dressing (BS). The second trip could have been more of the Santa Rosa treasure.

 

[franklin]

I had a man send me a letter from California once. He said the same thing you are saying. He said that Lafitte and Beale separated with their wagons on Trammel's Trace. Lafitte and his wagons were run into the lake. But Beale and his wagons went North to a plantation and buried their wagon loads of plunder. Then later came back and removed the wagon loads to Virginia.

 

[bigscoop]

Fellas, there are endless theories out there, all of them lacking any provenance whatsoever "because, as is always the case, there is absolutely nothing that can be directly connected to the the tale. Heck, even today nobody can even establish the existence of said Thomas J. Beale beyond pure speculation, or as one posted noted, "wag." This is why I keep pushing the whole provenance issue, or complete lack of it,....because without it it's all just wag.

 

[masterpoe]

This thread is for new information from the few people who actually have broken the Ciphers. Not the same old 30 years of crappy information reheated.

New information!

 

[ECS]

I still believe the treasure in question came from the Santa Rosa, it was carrying GOLD, SILVER and JEWELS, when it was sacked by Lafitte. But what does it matter how they got it, they needed a story for provenance. Nothing else could explain it. Leave Lafitte out, because he was or was not dead at the time the deposits. If you accept that the treasure was real who cares where it came from, the rest we now know was probably window dressing (BS). The second trip could have been more of the Santa Rosa treasure.

The Lafitte Trammels Trace/Henderson Lake treasure tale first appeared in TRUE WEST magazine, April 1957, an article written by self styled treasure hunter, Harry E Rieseberg, a writer of several treasure books and many treasure magazine articles.
Like Pauline Innis' ARGOSY magazine story on the Beale treasure, padded lore was added to this legend, creating a new interest in this tale and causing many to seek, but never find this treasure.

 

[ECS]

...
Back then, they would only go as far as the nearest town or railroad. The hides and pelts were in demand and buyers were everywhere.

Nearest railroad in pre-1820's?
The buyers of course were the aforementioned fur traders in St Louis who formed a bank during that time period...
...St Louis was only a frontier town during this time period.

 

[releventchair]

Nearest railroad in pre-1820's?
The buyers of course were the aforementioned fur traders in St Louis who formed a bank during that time period...
...St Louis was only a frontier town during this time period.

Not sure of Yankee/ gringo tolerance in Taos at the time by the Spanish ( Americans were around during pre-Beale party revolt,I think),or distance from Beale party alleged mineral site , but seems a closer / convenient (?) known going concern at the time.... If they knew of it's existence.

http:// https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taos_Mountain_Trail


http:// https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinez_Hacienda

 

[45th_Johnny]

Food for thought: Right, there was no railroad, there were no buyers, in fact there was no buffalo hunting except the Indians, who's survival depended on them. Buffalo hunting did not start until after the Civil War and even then the going rate for a tanned hides was $3.00. There were stories of Indian gold, but abundant gold was not found in the U.S. until 1798 and not made public until 1803, in North Carolina. Second find was in Georgia, 1830. California was 1849, followed by Alaska. Can't see a person wanting to get rich hunting something that was not in demand. That part of the story does not wash. Let us please move on there is nothing to see hear. People with lots of gold, silver and jewels, who would have that.

 

[releventchair]

Motive,means,opportunity, ability....

 

[45th_Johnny]

I have known some brilliant people in my life like the real Doogie Howser, M.D., and the not so brilliant Dr. X. Dr. X, would make his rounds and you could show him a page from a magazine. He would look at it and continue on his rounds. Next day ask him what the thirteenth word in the third paragraph was and he could tell you. He was assisting in a surgery and after a bone was pined and fused and the surgeon was walking out the room he heard a snap. Dr. X, decided the the thump did not look like the photo in the book. The surgery had to be done again. Doogie started collage at twelve, he said he had to paint on a mustache so others would think he was older. He received his M.D. at 21, one of the greatest persons i ever met. The Chief of Surgeons was great too.

You would think that between all of great thinkers we have here, we could arrive a some point we can all or most, agree on. How many times do you have to kick the can down that same old busy street before you regret it.

 

[franklin]

If you read nothing else and if you use nothing else as a source of reference except the 23 pages of the Job Print Pamphlet. Research it thoroughly, nit pick the works apart, decipher code paper number two for yourself. Then only then can you arrive at a decision on the Beale Treasure. The expedition could not have happened. If the expedition did happen the gold and silver could not have been purified in such a hostile and remote location. Bringing wagon loads of treasure back on two separate trips especially the first trip would have been impossible-------wagons could not be obtained in Sante Fe. Also mining implements could not be obtained in Sante Fe. And thirty one white Americans could not show up in Sante Fe at that time in history. Not until after the Mexican Revolution in 1822. Roads were not made yet to Sante Fe. Becknell did make a wagon trip in 1823. With two trips loaded with gold, silver and jewelry and 4,000 miles in both trips secrecy would have been impossible. Then there is no record of these 31 men being killed out West in any newspapers. Even when a party was missing it made the news. So I say there is no way in HELL this story every materialized in to flesh and happened as the author or agent for the author claimed. This story is FICTION. CASE CLOSED. September 5, 2017

 

[releventchair]

" Sniffle".
[ Somewhere we lost the key].

 

[ECS]

Franklin. I applaud you on the above listings of the plausible information and anachronistic discrepancies found throughout the 1885 Beale Papers that prove that the story was created from the imagination of this "unknown author" who borrowed from many eclectic sources that has intrigued and beguiled so many , and still does and will continue to do so.
Yes, the "STORY IS FICTION", but we both know, the case will never be closed.

 

[45th_Johnny]

"The Lafitte Trammels Trace/Henderson Lake treasure tale first appeared in TRUE WEST magazine, April 1957, an article written by self styled treasure hunter, Harry E Rieseberg, a writer of several treasure books and many treasure magazine articles.
Like Pauline Innis' ARGOSY magazine story on the Beale treasure, padded lore was added to this legend, creating a new interest in this tale and causing many to seek, but never find this treasure."

ECS, I believe you. The treasure was said to be from the Santa Rosa, that ship was reported as sunk by the British well before the story line stated. There was treasure on Galveston at Campeachy. I know that Spanish silver coins were found in the area. There may have been two silver bars found in 1920 at Hendricks Lake. The lake was dredged in the 1950's and nothing was reported found, just as the coins from Galveston were never reported found. As I recall Texas Law states something like any treasure found in Texas belongs to the state. All I am trying to convey is that if the treasure in Beale story is true, it most probably came from Lafitte. He had already lost 1,500,000.00 to Patterson and Ross, because he had no receipts for it.

 

[franklin]

"The Lafitte Trammels Trace/Henderson Lake treasure tale first appeared in TRUE WEST magazine, April 1957, an article written by self styled treasure hunter, Harry E Rieseberg, a writer of several treasure books and many treasure magazine articles.
Like Pauline Innis' ARGOSY magazine story on the Beale treasure, padded lore was added to this legend, creating a new interest in this tale and causing many to seek, but never find this treasure."

ECS, I believe you. The treasure was said to be from the Santa Rosa, that ship was reported as sunk by the British well before the story line stated. There was treasure on Galveston at Campeachy. I know that Spanish silver coins were found in the area. There may have been two silver bars found in 1920 at Hendricks Lake. The lake was dredged in the 1950's and nothing was reported found, just as the coins from Galveston were never reported found. As I recall Texas Law states something like any treasure found in Texas belongs to the state. All I am trying to convey is that if the treasure in Beale story is true, it most probably came from Lafitte. He had already lost 1,500,000.00 to Patterson and Ross, because he had no receipts for it.

The Henderson Lake Treasure is about two miles from the Lake under a smaller lake or pond. I do not believe the Beale Treasure is about any treasure either the TJB or the CSA. The story was made up to make a few bucks.

 

[bigscoop]

If you read nothing else and if you use nothing else as a source of reference except the 23 pages of the Job Print Pamphlet. Research it thoroughly, nit pick the works apart, decipher code paper number two for yourself. Then only then can you arrive at a decision on the Beale Treasure. The expedition could not have happened. If the expedition did happen the gold and silver could not have been purified in such a hostile and remote location. Bringing wagon loads of treasure back on two separate trips especially the first trip would have been impossible-------wagons could not be obtained in Sante Fe. Also mining implements could not be obtained in Sante Fe. And thirty one white Americans could not show up in Sante Fe at that time in history. Not until after the Mexican Revolution in 1822. Roads were not made yet to Sante Fe. Becknell did make a wagon trip in 1823. With two trips loaded with gold, silver and jewelry and 4,000 miles in both trips secrecy would have been impossible. Then there is no record of these 31 men being killed out West in any newspapers. Even when a party was missing it made the news. So I say there is no way in HELL this story every materialized in to flesh and happened as the author or agent for the author claimed. This story is FICTION. CASE CLOSED. September 5, 2017

And all of this is just scratching the surface of the many inaccuracies and deceptions that exist in the tale once someone actually takes the time to, "research the story details themselves." This is where most treasure stories start to completely fall apart, just as this one has.

 

[bigscoop]

The last hurdle folks need to realize is that seemingly relevant data can be found in any group of randomly selected numbers, especially in random groups of this size and especially when one is expecting to find them and actually looking for them to develop at every turn. Pick any subject/topic and these seemingly relevant events will always present themselves, not because they were placed there intentionally, but simply due to the limited amount of letters in the alphabet and the fact that all of the codes can become anything anybody desires them to be. While there are still a few holdouts in denial of this cold hard fact most are aware of this existing condition/reality now thanks to open forums like this one.

 

[ECS]

... All I am trying to convey is that if the treasure in Beale story is true, it most probably came from Lafitte...

Thomas Beale, of 10 Canal Street, New Orleans, knew Jean Laffite, and they shared the same attorney, John Randolph Grymes, 99 Canal Street.
Grymes represented Beale Sr's wife in the estate dispute with Chloe Delancey, mother of Thomas Beale Jr.
The New Orleans Beales, while both from Virginia, neither had a "J" middle name initial, and Laffite was known as sharing is treasure with those outside of his crew.
One can make a similar connection to Jim Bowie and Laffite with another treasure story.

 

[45th_Johnny]

"Thomas Beale, of 10 Canal Street, New Orleans, knew Jean Laffite, and they shared the same attorney, John Randolph Grymes, 99 Canal Street."
ESC, please tell me which one is the real pirate in that group?

Where to now? I just want to know what was the key to the other two codes?