More Interesting New Findings From The Beale Ciphers

I do not see an original that anyone can prove the mistake at 155 and 480. All I see is the referenced copy's. And why would someone have to use only the DOI in the copy's of the pamphlet? You can tell someone tried to doctored them just like the Hart's doctored the ciphers.

The Beale Paper ciphers are the originals, all else came afterwards. :laughing7: You can't change the original source to create a new original source or you're simply rewriting new code to suit your own desires.
 

The Beale Paper ciphers are the originals, all else came afterwards. :laughing7: You can't change the original source to create a new original source or you're simply rewriting new code to suit your own desires.

I think it is possible to use the original ciphers and a DOI from the timeline of the 1820's to decipher the page know as 2. The X's, V's and other letters offset by one number would be easy to find as the author did. To sell a book must be dumb down to reach the people of that time. If in fact the original pamphlet had the errors at 480 used 2 times and the others it would seem that the people simply ajusted it to fit there deciphered text. The Hart's also changed the original ciphers to mach these corrections that were needed to have a good text with the page know as 2. They have changed all the numbers in all three ciphers to reflect the fixes that were in page 2. So do you have an original pamphlet of the Beale Papers or are you just giving an opinion?
 

Most of the mistakes are the most used letters is the English language. I would suggest Beale was doing this on purpose. This ciphers is the simplest off all three!
Once again, it is alleged by the "unknown author" of the Beale Papers that the story and ciphers are indeed true, and that he delivered a finished manuscript to James Beverly Ward to publish as agent, and this 1885 published version contains the correct content, mistakes and all.
 

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If we look at the pure ciphers and use the correct DOI you can see more errors then just 155 marker. At 111 marker we find the number 93 that there is the same one off mistake made. 93 is a W and should be a C .

The reason for 93 being a "W" instead of a "C" is because "self-evident" is counted as two words. And if you counted "self-evident" as two words then the other reason you are off is because you are looking to the right of the count for the letter when you should be looking to the left.
 

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I think it is possible to use the original ciphers and a DOI from the timeline of the 1820's to decipher the page know as 2. The X's, V's and other letters offset by one number would be easy to find as the author did. To sell a book must be dumb down to reach the people of that time. If in fact the original pamphlet had the errors at 480 used 2 times and the others it would seem that the people simply ajusted it to fit there deciphered text. The Hart's also changed the original ciphers to mach these corrections that were needed to have a good text with the page know as 2. They have changed all the numbers in all three ciphers to reflect the fixes that were in page 2. So do you have an original pamphlet of the Beale Papers or are you just giving an opinion?

First, myself and others worked on the ciphers for years, this including some of the most advanced computer systems/programs available, others were even written and/or altered for more specific search. So I have a great deal of experience and knowledge regarding the construction of the ciphers. Having said this, yes, one can manipulate the existing codes in any seemingly reasonable fashion they want in order to arrive at a possible correct clear text, or in other words, to make things workout. At face value this all seems reasonable process. However, the existing flaw in these seemingly reasonable processes is that, "they are completely blind and random efforts". This includes even those efforts that are deemed to be completely unbiased because they cannot be completely unbiased since something has to be specifically suspected and sought during these efforts. Again, the two remaining ciphers are just two random sets of a series of numbers and we have no possible way of knowing which is cipher 1 and which is 3, nor do we have any possible way to know what the context of those clear text might be, or if they contain any true clear text at all? All you we have to go on is the author's word and that word has already been seriously discredited by his own narration, and on top of this we have absolutely nothing at ever level in support of a single detail he has offered and in many cases quite the opposite.

So, and here is the real issue now, what provenance do any of us possess that concludes that those ciphers hold any true clear text at all? All we have is the author's word and we already know beyond shadow of doubt that his word cannot be trusted and that much of his narration isn't true. And remember, the computers say that C1 can't possibly hold a grammatically correct clear text, the past 135 years and countless attempts by some of the best and brightest and most sophisticated programs in the business in complete support of that assessment. Sure, you can continue to pursue the C2 & DOI process but it will establish nothing of use other then to establish that the author, once again, did not proceed as he lead readers to believe that he had. We need go no further then his numbering of the ciphers to prove this, and this is just one such case of many. What do any of us possess to establish that the story is true? Still, to this day, only cold hard fact to the opposite. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

Science, research, investigation, it all points to C1 being just randomly selected numbers with no real clear text, "If all of that code is to be used." The obvious problem here, however, is who gets to decided what code gets removed and what code is kept? So with no provenance to work from the sky becomes the limit once again.
 

The reason for 93 being a "W" instead of a "C" is because "self-evident" is counted as two words. And if you counted "self-evident" as two words then the other reason you are off is because you are looking to the right of the count for the letter when you should be looking to the left.

Only looking to the left! And I have two words at marker 78-79 self evident. So how do you suppose Beale use the DOI? I would think he had a master list of the first letter of each word in the DOI! Working from that master list he would create the cipher page two. If this is a correct assumed it would be proved only by all of the same numbers that are off by one would continue to the end of the cipher page 2. If for some reason he found the error before he had completed 2 it is possible he could have changed the order at a given point!
 

Whomever created C2 would have written the text first, then employed the DOI assigning numbers that would match the letters in the pre-written text. Mistakes would be easy to make, especially if one was in a hurry to finish the coding, or if, as I suspect the original coder died before finishing the text, and other completed the coding.
There is a reason that Ward applied for copyright with only the title, even though the "unknown author" states he presented Ward with a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT.
 

Only looking to the left! And I have two words at marker 78-79 self evident. So how do you suppose Beale use the DOI? I would think he had a master list of the first letter of each word in the DOI! Working from that master list he would create the cipher page two. If this is a correct assumed it would be proved only by all of the same numbers that are off by one would continue to the end of the cipher page 2. If for some reason he found the error before he had completed 2 it is possible he could have changed the order at a given point!

And if that is true the key is not the DOI, but a master key paper made from the DOI! Where did you hear that from?
That is sure genius!

It would make perfect sense that the key would be a list of numbers and letters.
 

Only looking to the left! And I have two words at marker 78-79 self evident. So how do you suppose Beale use the DOI? I would think he had a master list of the first letter of each word in the DOI! Working from that master list he would create the cipher page two. If this is a correct assumed it would be proved only by all of the same numbers that are off by one would continue to the end of the cipher page 2. If for some reason he found the error before he had completed 2 it is possible he could have changed the order at a given point!

OK, now you're addressing the meat and potatoes of the obvious problem. First, remember that the codes were to be "easily understood" with the correct key, but even in the author's presentation this is far-far from the truth should you happen to be so lucky to be accurate? Second, as has been detailed many times in the past, a common practice of the times was for both coder and decoder to carry the same identical "key list", this list containing a list of words with numbers already assigned to each. Per example, "the old receipts" said to have been in the iron box contains both numbers and words, so even something of this nature could have been used, etc., etc. This possibility was pointed out years ago but even if accurate, as it might well be, there is still no hope whatsoever of ever decoding either of the remaining ciphers without said, "Missing paper." And to add to this problem, it was also common practice when employing this method to toss in a bunch of meaningless random numbers within the code to further protect the message, which is exactly why I have always tried to draw everyone's attention to this very possibility in the past by pointing out the 19 4-digit codes in C1, the only cipher with 4-digit codes aside from the 1000 that was used in reference to "X". "I can't think of a single hiding place that I couldn't tell you about in a single secure sentence." I've said this many-many times for all the above reasons.

BUT, one also has to remember that if this is the case then the author already had this knowledge so why the ruse unless he was just providing enough fish food to fulfill his fishing trip? Which, if this is again the case, then the details in the entire story become even further in doubt. All of the above has been detailed many-many times in these forums in the past. All possible, but also requiring that vital missing paper referenced in the narration and that could be anything, if in fact it truly ever existed at all?

Only now are you starting to understand the stark realities that cause me to hold many of the educated opinions on the subject that I hold.
 

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To ME, what IF... "CSA MAX" (Guggenheimer, Jr.) wrote it (Jewish writings, read left to right); to be "decoded"... go left to right? Dunno. ALL in NUMBERS! :dontknow:
 

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My thoughts are that Max, Fc, Harriet, and John William contributed and provided input to James Beverly.:icon_thumright:
 

Who possibly penned the narration is all pointless speculation that will no doubt bring forth an endless list of suspects for an untold number of personal fancies and reasons. I could tell you who I think wrote it, and why, but to what avail if I can't prove it?
 

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To ME, what IF... "CSA MAX" (Guggenheimer, Jr.) wrote it (Jewish writings, read left to right); to be "decoded"... go left to right? Dunno. ALL in NUMBERS! :dontknow:
BOTH, the BPP/"JP" mentioned FIGURES, rather than NUMBERS... HEBREW LETTERS...? AND! A mirror will REVERSE "English Numbers" to be read LEFT to RIGHT! "CSA Max" DID IT! Heh...
 

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Only looking to the left! And I have two words at marker 78-79 self evident. So how do you suppose Beale use the DOI? I would think he had a master list of the first letter of each word in the DOI! Working from that master list he would create the cipher page two. If this is a correct assumed it would be proved only by all of the same numbers that are off by one would continue to the end of the cipher page 2. If for some reason he found the error before he had completed 2 it is possible he could have changed the order at a given point!

The author did so many things wrong and the reason is he never proof read anything and he never worked on the cipher codes for years. There are too many errors pointing to this surmise. Multiple times he would choose the adjoining number beside of each other for his next letter. The author several times was off by one count because he forgot which was on the ten count whether on the left or on the right. Then his miscount of ten and that should have thrown everything out of "sink" just like your one count did but no he got every letter perfect 100% of the time 72 for 72. Now that is an impossibility. To get 72 correct when everything should have been wrong. Then when the author transcribed his words out of the decipherment he gets them wrong also. The author placed ciphers for words that should have been spelled out such as "paper number 1" when it clearly said "paper number one" and then again "paper number 3" when it should have been "paper number three" Then the author abbreviated the month as "Nov" when it should have been "November", the author abbreviated "Dec" when it should have been "December" Then he did the years identically the same wrong way, "1819" when the decoded message said "eighteen nineteen" also "1821" when the decoded message said "eighteen twenty-one" Then we come to the author's mistakes of placing thousands in the decipherment instead of hundreds. The author had "one thousand" when it actually was decoded "ten hundred" the author also had in his decipherment "three thousand" and it was decoded "thirty eight hundred"

There are mistakes enumerable and these mistakes were not intentional they were mistakes because the author never proof read his work, he was in a hurry to get them printed and on the market for sale. Mistakes like that not only suggest the story is made up it proclaims the story as fiction and for sell for fifty cents a copy. It was really done so badly I believe that fourteen year old W.W. Watts was the author of something that has baffled the experts and code breakers for the past one hundred and thirty-two years.
 

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To ME, what IF... "CSA MAX" (Guggenheimer, Jr.) wrote it (Jewish writings, read left to right); to be "decoded"... go left to right? Dunno. ALL in NUMBERS! :dontknow:
ALSO, "locaL" (L'burg, Va., 1885), TYPE-SET COULD only BE IN English! WHAT to DO!
 

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DYK? "CSA Max"'s Great-grandson (aka Max Guggenheimer, Jr.) is a VMI Grad & Viet Nam Vet.; wonder if he KNEW. Will ask him, when I see him, again...
 

And if that is true the key is not the DOI, but a master key paper made from the DOI! Where did you hear that from?
That is sure genius!

It would make perfect sense that the key would be a list of numbers and letters.

More than likely Beale used the the DOI as a basic foundation for his key. The off sets are just a precaution so no one would understand the DOI was used if in fact someone tried to decipher it without the key. The numbers that do not mach the DOI at all tell us this. 1005, 807, 810 and so on. So we have learned from the Professor that the DOI was just used as a base source for the key and not the actual key itself for cipher page 2.

The Professor's work is very interesting and I have seen document's that there is much more information coming!
 

More than likely Beale used the the DOI as a basic foundation for his key. The off sets are just a precaution so no one would understand the DOI was used if in fact someone tried to decipher it without the key. The numbers that do not mach the DOI at all tell us this. 1005, 807, 810 and so on. So we have learned from the Professor that the DOI was just used as a base source for the key and not the actual key itself for cipher page 2.

The Professor's work is very interesting and I have seen document's that there is much more information coming!

You really think to highly of your professor. Why does he hid in the shadows claiming he has deciphered C1 over four years ago yet has not dug in Bedford County or anywhere else? You and the professor thought because the "a" was left out of the "author's" DOI that you had made a great historical discovery. Absolutely Nothing.

You have seen documents and there is much more information coming? You do mean dis-information don't you. You are dropping your hook into waters where there is no fish. But continue maybe you like to see the sunrise and the sunset.
 

He's from Canada... MAYBE, they have SOMETHING...? He calls us "YANKS"... heh.
 

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