MAP TO LDM FOR SALE!

[Minstrel]

Here is a link to "62" maps
Take your pick.

http://www.ajpl.org/aj//museum/treasm.htm

Minstrel

 

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[lamar]

Dear group;
On the profile map, there is a site labelled as "CAVE CON CASA". Shouldn't it read "CUEVA CON CASA" if it were an authentic Spanish or Mexican map?
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[RGINN]

Its labelled 'Caverna con casa' which means cavern, or cave with house, literally. Doesn't make the map authentic, though. One thing people overlook is they seem to give way more credit to the spelling ability of some Hispanic speakers. Many times words would be spelled phonetically, thus 'caberna'. Particularly more so if it was an English speaker who was listening to Spanish. That's why I find the 'coazon' word interesting in the Peralta stones. 'Corazo'n.' R's are pronounced more like the d's in 'ladder', with the tongue at the top front of the mouth. So if you weren't real familiar with Spanish, and it was being spoken fast, you would maybe hear 'codazon' or believe it to be 'coazon'. Hispanics who speak Castillano many times have a more clear and classical pronunciaton. And I only get about every fourth word in Portuguese.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

That's what I call the "rolling r trick". With Peralta Stones, though, fairly educated people were supposed to have carved that. Considering that it would take a hand carver awhile to carve all that, you'd think, if they were spanish-speaking, they would know that its not a "d" (which they didn't put either). Leans towards the idea that someone who didn't have a clue wrote it.

B

 

[cactusjumper]

Beth,

You might want to consider an Anglo who had been, informally, taught Spanish in Mexico.......Like Ted DeGrazia. The experts who examined the Stone Maps, came to the same conclusion......Minus the Ted DeGrazia theory.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lamar]

Dear RGINN;
Yes, my friend, after you wrote that I went back at looked at it very carefully and it does read as CAVERNA. I am sorry that I misread it. And yes, the difference in pronounciation between the V and the B in Spanish is minute, in fact about 99.999% of all latinos cannot make a noticeable difference in pronounciation because they were not taught to turn the corners of the mouth downwards into a frown when pronouncing the V and letting the mouth relax for words where the B is pronounced. This is why many lesser educated Latinos tend to use the V and B incorrectly in grammar.

Also, the R is only rolled when it's the first letter of a word or name and also if the R follows the constants L, N, or S , such as Puerto Rico, alredador, Enrique and Israel. In all other positions the single constant R is pronounced with a hard single click or tap. The word CORAZON in Castillian Spanish is pronounced as Core Ahhhh Thon, with the accent stress on the first syllable , almost as if singing the word. The latinos pronounce it differently, but I am not quite sure how they do it so I can't explain it.

Also, the word CAVERNA is relatively new in Spanish and as such I think that the word CAVIDAD would probably have been used in older structures. Also, the word ESCARDADIA confounds me. I know of no such word found in the Spanish language, so unless it's a regional word, it does not exist. The two closest words which comes to mind are ESCARDAR, which means to clear a garden or field of grass and/or weeds, and the word ESCARPA, which is a steep bank or bluff, or even a cliff. Of course the common word for cliff would be RISCO or PERCIPICO.

Also, the word PERFIL seems suspicious to me as well. True, the word PERFIL means profile in English, but if one were describing the profile of a mountain or a mountain chain, then the more proper descriptive word would be CONTORNO. Perfil is mostly utilized in describing a profile in general, whereas the word Contorno is used more when describing the profile of an antimate or inatimate object.

Also, Portugues is simple my friend. We say that Portuguese is just a bad form of Spanish.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

Dear Lamar,

I would suggest that the word, escardadia, means the day or time for weeding or preparing a field for planting, or the time for planting. In essence, it refers to a time of the year......Spring? To make sense, escarda and dia should have been seperated.

It would be interesting to see if someone can make that connection or come up with something better.
Just a blind guess, which will be obvious to someone like you.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lamar]

Dear cactusjumper;
That would make sense, except that it does not make any sense my friend. DIA means DAY whereas a set or certain time of the year would be an EPOCA, a SAZON, ESTACION or a TEMPORADA.

Also, ESCARDAR is not a very popular word therefore it's unlikely to have been used to describe clearing out a field. To describe this, a popular word would be ENTRESACAR.

Since DIA is not a form of a Spanish suffix, it would most likely not have been used in conjunction with a prefix word.To say ESCARDA DIA as two separate words, it would mean "WEEDING DAY" or "CLEARING DAY" with the day in question meaning today. Also, you would not say "EscardaR dia" Because the word ESCARDAR means "TO weed". Used in conjunction with a following word, it would be "Escardo dia" since DIA is masculine, then the verb ESCARDAR would also assume a masculine form.

If it were ESCARDA NOCHE, then with NOCHE being feminine, the precceding verb would also be feminine.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

Dear Lamar,

What you say makes perfect sense.........for a native speaker of the Spanish language. If we look at it from the perspective of someone not having Spanish as there "first" language, and not being formally taught to speak and write it, the parameters are expanded somewhat.

Your own, obviously, formal training in the Spanish language, as well as other languages, might put you at a slight disadvantage in seeing the possibilities of such a simple theory.

I suppose the question might be: Is it possible?

Take care,

Joe

 

[lamar]

Dear cactusjumper;
Your assessment of the situation is 100% correct my friend, except you left out the obvious conclusion. If someone who was not a native Spanish speaker drew the map, why would that person attempt to label all of the map's key features and landmarks in Spanish instead of English, my friend? The only reason that I can possibly think of that makes logical sense is that the person who drew the map did so in order to perpetuate a deception or fraud.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

Dear Lamar,

BINGO!

Take care,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Group,

Try solving this puzzle as if it were an anagram by using all the letters contained on the map. Good Luck!

EB

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies & Gentlemen: I believe that too much attention is being placed in literal interpreting using formal Spanish, ignoring any local colloquial or bilateral meanings.

I have to correct my maid's kiddies homework, and you would be shocked how far the teachers are off on formal Spanish.

My father in law's favorite expressions were "Ya me fui", "Garaste la hondo", "a la mejor".

As for people speaking and writing, using correct language, just look at some of the posts in here. sigh I am not belittling them as swr does, just pointing this factor out.

They were no different then, if not considerably worse. Schools were scarce and for the Royalty and elite. It was considered advantageous to keep the peons illiterate.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jose,

Ah Ha!! You said what I was trying to convey (in this post, and the other one) - but, much better than I.

But, I do tend to agree with one thing - its point was to defraud.

CJ,

I have, indeed considered DeGrazia - but, I just keep circling back around to Storm.

B

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI BETH LUV: You posted -->

I have, indeed considered DeGrazia - but, I just keep circling back around to xxxxxx Reavis.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Beth,

Hmmm.....Barry Storm. I can see where he would do something like that. My guess is still Chuck Aylor as the person who knew the terrain like the back of his hand. His favorite passage from Shakespeare is just too much of a coincidence.

"Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me. You would play upon me; you would seem to know my stops; you would pluck out the heart of my mystery; you would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass; and there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ, yet cannot you make it speak. '..Do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, you cannot play upon me. "
Hamlet. Scene II ~ W.Shakespeare

When you consider the years the Aylor's lived in those mountains, a number of them on the Stone Map Trail, it might make you wonder.........

Take care,

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jose,

What, in particular, brings you back to Reavis? I understand the "Pedro" connection in regards to Reavis land grab, but then, why wouldn't he have used them?

B

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

HELLO ALL IM A NEWBIE ON THIS STUFF BUT I FIND IT QUITE FASCINATING! I HAVE GROWN UP WITH MANY PERALTAS, HERE IN PERALTA NEW MEXICO . I HAVE ASKED MY GOOD FRIEND GILBERT PERALTA, WHAT PERALTA MEANS, AND HE SAYS IT MEANS MALE HORSE OR STUD. OR FOR MANY JUST HORSE SO PERALTA MAPS COULD TRANSLATE TO HORSE MAPS. MUCH SLANG IS AND HAS BEEN PRESENT IN CURRENT NEW MEXICAN LINGO AND MISS PRONUNCIATION, A GENERAL RULE TO FOLLOW IS "A" IS FEMININE AND "O" IS MASCULINE EL CABALLO (MALE? POSSIBLE FEMALE? UNKNOWN HORSE ?) EL COBALLO DEFINATELY MALE "EL COBALLO" MALE HORSE STUD BEAU PERALTA UN CASTERATED "MALE LOOKING HORSE" WILD OR AGGRESSIVE. ("EL COAZON EL COBALLO") THE HEART OF THE MALE HORSE. IF YOU WERE TO SHOOT AN ANIMAL YOU WOULD SHOOT BEHIND THE LEFT FRONT LEG DIRECTLY INTO THE ANIMALS HEART. WHEN YOU LOCATE THE HORSE LOCATE THE HORSES HEART THE TREASURE IS INSIDE THE HORSES HEART... LOOK FOR AN M THAT LOOKS LIKE A 3 FOR M FOR MIGUEL A HORSE FOR PERALTA THE HORSE IS THE SIGNATURE FOR PERALTA... WHO SAYS GOLD MINERS DONT LEAVE NAMES?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Buenas tardes mi amigo nuevo de Santa Fe. Very interesting speculation. Keep posting.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Good afternoon my new friend from Santa Fe.

 

[cactusjumper]

Welcome Mr. Sante Fe,

I believe Peralta means "high rock". Can you tell us your source for it meaning "horse"?

Thank you,

Joe Ribaudo