LUE clue...the Obit of Hardrock Hammond

[sdcfia]

'There is something in a treasure that fastens upon a man's mind. He will pray and blaspheme and still persevere, and will curse the day he ever heard of it, and will let his last hour come upon him unawares, still believing that he missed it only by a foot. He will see it every time he closes his eyes. He will never forget it till he is dead - and even then ...'

~ Nostromo, Joseph Conrad

Conrad, what a great writer. Here's another quote from him - for all of us who aren't young anymore:

"This tale, episode, experience--call it how you will--was related in the fifties of the last century by a man who, by his own confession, was sixty years old at the time. Sixty is not a bad age--unless in perspective, when no doubt it is contemplated by the majority of us with mixed feelings. It is a calm age; the game is practically over by then; and standing aside one begins to remember with a certain vividness what a fine fellow one used to be. I have observed that, by an amiable attention of Providence, most people at sixty begin to take a romantic view of themselves. Their very failures exhale a charm of peculiar potency. And indeed the hopes of the future are a fine company to live with, exquisite forms, fascinating if you like, but--so to speak--naked, stripped for a run. The robes of glamour are luckily the property of the immovable past which, without them, would sit, a shivery sort of thing, under the gathering shadows."

The Inn of the Two Witches

 

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[releventchair]

IMO, there is zero chance of discovery for the benchmark treasures. You know, the famous ones that everybody knows about, has been written about and searched for by thousands of hopefuls for the past hundred years or more. They are fun to ponder and debate, for sure, but when you figure how many degrees of separation you are from the "truth", if any, in the long run, these things are primarily sucker bets robbing you of time and energy.

If you're serious about digging up loot somewhere, find a target that intrigues you and has had little publicity. Chances are not great that you'll succeed, but at least the odds are not zero.

The gent who introduced me to metal detecting was ahead of me. By lightyears.
And remained that way as the distance increased ever after.
Close associate of Dads so I had indirect access too.

The places that man got to...Not just ahead of me (sometimes by decades) but places...Well I know one of his tricks. Not an option for me. Right. Don't do it!
But sheesh. It almost was to the point that if I could find a place he didn't know about that was almost a win. Never mind if nothing was on it!

A great man though. And despite his passing leaves legacy to the public including research resource . That's something special.
Museums benefitted. Libraries also. Historical society and old cemeteries and more.

I know some about some recoveries involved. And one nip and tuck one with competition getting a taste it was so competitive by a single article in the local newspaper or something similar that added to those two's long known "somewhere right around heres" better..
But that was only one facet.

Point being , given a hot lead with a hundred other treasure hunters , if one of them is sidelined or something , that'd leave me running around 99th place probably chasing the lead.
And if everyone prior missed it...My genius probably isn't the answer either.
Now there's the stories around my region too. But the published ones...Nah. Not yet anyways.
The unpublished,,,, Well ya know.
I can think of one little can be done about that needed poking at years ago when a change occurred. But maybe another set of eyes did more?
Why I knew about it was...
But big here is both pockets full and a bucket maybe. Small bucket. Enough to kill ya, but not enough to crush you kind of stuff. My kind of story!

 

[mdog]

Nope. We discussed a number of topics, including some of the successful treasure hunters remaining in the background during the show, but not the LUE. The event was poorly attended, which gave us more time to chat.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Thank you for the reply, Old Bookaroo.
Karl introduced the LUE clue to the public, after he solved it during 1957. Why would he do that, without some kind of explanation. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Crow]

I completely agree. Treasure hunting for the vast majority is primarily a sport, a hobby, a pass time. Witness the deluge of books, magazines, videos, clubs and reality TV shows that showcase the activity. It's fun stuff. Yes, Miller has been a cornerstone in the business of treasure hunting, and he should be admired for his accomplishments. I have no doubt he was a stand-up guy and someone memorable to have met - I would have loved to have chatted with him. Who wouldn't?

IMO, the "shadowy, secret realm" is by far the most intriguing aspect of the topic, where a vicarious adventurer may find himself in a serious reality. This is where some of the less acceptable aspects of human nature take control. I suspect that Miller may have been in those types of situations, and if so, acted appropriately. I suspect he leaked out some proprietary info to some searchers in his time, but if so, I'll repeat what I mentioned earlier - he very likely kept the best cards up his sleeve, and his circle of true knowing partners did the same. As George Carlin said on a different subject, "It's a big club, and we ain't in it."

Hello Sdcfia

I could not agree more. Treasure hunters are a lot like distillers of fine whiskey. they do not give out the top shelf stuff to just anyone. I have list of treasure all confirmed with documentation. no one gets to see. unless some proves to me they have integrity, practical experience and financial capacity to pull off a project.

That said I have given away heaps of maybe stories. some quite small. most you will have never heard of them, from all over the world. For one reason or another they are for me not high up on the list of making an effort.

The following yarn comes from down under. Few in USA realize today That the united states and Australia has a very strong links going back to the 1850's When the surface gold in California gold rush started to wane America gold seekers headed to the gold rush in NSW Australia and then followed the even bigger Victorian gold rush. It was Californian gold mining lessons was passed on from American diggers down under. Thousands past through in two way traffic from California to Sydney.

Getting back to the yarn just like American gold rushes came and went, some places prospered and other places withered and died. One such place withered to almost non existence after gold mining came and went. brink as you driving along the highway you will miss it.

The place was ghost of itself now a reflection of abandoned rural poverty. there was some very slapped together mining cottages dating back to 1860's and a pub that as far a I know is still open. I driven past only ever giving it a passing glance always reminding myself I should detect there one day. I never did.

Years ago I came across a newspaper story dating back into the 1930s and old man living in one of these tumbled down shacks met 2 geological surveyors passing through. The old prospector now in his 80s was still going out to the river panning for gold. he showed them a large beer bottle full of fine gold dust that he had spent almost a life time from panning. The twist of story the old prospector had buried his bottle in his front yard and had forgotten where he buried it?

The old guy died and people searched and soon people over time forgot about it. This was before the days of metal detectors. The story was soon forgotten from public memory.

Years later I found the mans name on electoral rolls and his address. looking on goggle earth the shack still existed. All be it different owners living there. It was well known passing through as the front yard had heaps of garden gnomes.

I cannot count the times I past that old shack and said to myself I should search there one day. I never did. Years later when busy with other projects and old work mining colleague I knew for years knew of my treasure hunting activities was now retired and was enthralled in finding treasure.

He was the type of guy I did not dislike buy did not like either. He was annoying but harmless. He kept on asking me whats is good place to search for treasure? He was super eager as all newbies are.

To get him out of my hair I told him the above story to get rid of him. I told him to see the land owner and ask him to detect and make 50/50 deal with him. He was delighted I had shared such information with him. He promised he would go half with me with his share with a 50/ 50 split with owner. I was not expecting or holding my breath much other than he might get a load buck shot in his ass. So off he went full of enthusiasm and out of my hair. presumably to annoy the crap out of the land holder.

I had completely forgotten about it. One morning he appeared at my house knocking the door smiling. My first thought here we go again he is after another treasure lead? Full of enthusiasm he placed 4500 dollars on my coffee table.

I looked at him and said what the hell is this?" He smiled and said your share? Share to what? He replied with that story you told me? Then I remembered and said I only told you that story to keep you out of my hair to get rid of you. I did not expect you to find anything?

He laughed and said at first I thought you had set me up? I met and old age pensioner who lived there. A Nice man loved his beer and football. I asked permission to search as he was interested in doing a fitly fifty split. The guy was not wealthy living from week to week so the chance of few extra bucks made him interested.

So the pensioner had never seen or used a metal detector. He asked me how the metal detector works? So I showed him how it works we was standing next to his front step. turning it on in seconds there was loud signal. and we dug up a bottle full of gold in less than five minutes right next to the door step. The gold dust added up to just shy of 18 thousand dollars So we split the gold 50/50 and my share was about 9000 so as promised I give 4500 Dollars for giving me a good lead.

As you can imagine I was bewildered in WTF mode . Old Crow had egg on my face. But in dropping on the coffee table 4500 is 4500. So I am not complaining.

But it goes to show not to under estimate these little stories. Some can become little gems.

Crow

 

[mdog]

Hello Sdcfia

I could not agree more. Treasure hunters are a lot like distillers of fine whiskey. they do not give out the top shelf stuff to just anyone. I have list of treasure all confirmed with documentation. no one gets to see. unless some proves to me they have integrity, practical experience and financial capacity to pull off a project.

That said I have given away heaps of maybe stories. some quite small. most you will have never heard of them, from all over the world. For one reason or another they are for me not high up on the list of making an effort.

The following yarn comes from down under. Few in USA realize today That the united states and Australia has a very strong links going back to the 1850's When the surface gold in California gold rush started to wane America gold seekers headed to the gold rush in NSW Australia and then followed the even bigger Victorian gold rush. It was Californian gold mining lessons was passed on from American diggers down under. Thousands past through in two way traffic from California to Sydney.

Getting back to the yarn just like American gold rushes came and went, some places prospered and other places withered and died. One such place withered to almost non existence after gold mining came and went. brink as you driving along the highway you will miss it.

The place was ghost of itself now a reflection of abandoned rural poverty. there was some very slapped together mining cottages dating back to 1860's and a pub that as far a I know is still open. I driven past only ever giving it a passing glance always reminding myself I should detect there one day. I never did.

Year ago I came across a newspaper story dating back into the 1930s and old man living in one of these tumbled down shacks met 2 geological surveyors passing through. The old prospector now in his 80s was still going out to the river panning for gold. he showed them a large beer bottle full of fine gold dust that he had spent almost a life time from panning. The twist of story the old prospector had buried his bottle in his front yard and had forgotten where he buried it?

The old guy died and people searched and soon people over time forgot about it. This was before the days of metal detectors. The story was soon forgotten from public memory.

Years later I found the mans name on electoral rolls and his address. looking on goggle earth the shack still existed. All be it different owners living there. It was well known passing through as the front yard had heaps of garden gnomes.

I cannot count the times I past that old shack and said to myself I should search there one day. I never did. Years later when busy with other projects and old work mining colleague I knew for years knew of my treasure hunting activities was now retired and was enthralled in finding treasure.

He was the type of guy I did not dislike buy did not like either. He was annoying but harmless. He kept on asking me whats is good place to search for treasure? He was super eager as all newbies are.

To get him out of my hair I told him the above story to get rid of him. I told him to see the land owner and ask him to detect and make 50/50 deal with him. He was delighted I had shared such information with him. He promised he would go half with me with his share with a 50/ 50 split with owner. I was not expecting or holding my breath much other than he might get a load buck shot in his ass. So off he went full of enthusiasm and out of my hair. presumably to annoy the crap out of the land holder.

I had completely forgotten about it. One morning he appeared at my house knocking the door smiling. My first thought here we go again he is after another treasure lead? Full of enthusiasm he placed 4500 dollars on my coffee table.

I looked at him and said what the hell is this?" He smiled and said your share? Share to what? He replied with that story you told me? Then I remembered and said I only told you that story to keep you out of my hair to get rid of you. I did not expect you to find anything?

He laughed and said at first I thought you had set me up? I met and old age pensioner who lived there. A Nice man loved his beer and football. I asked permission to search as he was interested in doing a fitly fifty split. The guy was not wealthy living from week to week so the chance of few extra bucks made him interested.

So the pensioner had never seen or used a metal detector. He asked me how the metal detector works? So I showed him how it works we was standing next to his front step. turning it on in seconds there was loud signal. and we dug up a bottle full of gold in less than five minutes right next to the door step. The gold dust added up to just shy of 18 thousand dollars So we split the gold 50/50 and my share was about 9000 so as promised I give 4500 Dollars for giving me a good lead.

As you can imagine I was bewildered in WTF mode . Old Crow had egg on my face. But in dropping on the coffee table 4500 is 4500. So I am not complaining.

But it goes to show not to under estimate these little stories. Some can become little gems.

Crow

That was a great story. I laughed my butt off. I have to admire the guy for his honesty.

 

[Crow]

That was a great story. I laughed my butt off. I have to admire the guy for his honesty.

Yep I cannot take that away from him. he still annoys the crap out of me.

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

Yep I cannot take that away from him. he still annoys the crap out of me.

Crow

Great story Crow. These are exactly the types of targets one should be seeking, researching and searching for, IMO. Your unexpected payoff came from that mindset. Your pal's came from the Universe gifting him through you. There's also an adage that says, "You don't find treasure, treasure finds you."

 

[giuhalftrack]

little OT:
I have a signed copy of Hardrock Hammond book

 

[Crow]

Great story Crow. These are exactly the types of targets one should be seeking, researching and searching for, IMO. Your unexpected payoff came from that mindset. Your pal's came from the Universe gifting him through you. There's also an adage that says, "You don't find treasure, treasure finds you."

Agreed.

I love all treasure yarns love nothing better than a beer and treasure yarn.

But there is some not matter how famous they are I will avoid them like the plague. Because you can spend your life obsessing over speculation over speculation. Proverbially chasing rainbows.

Each story big or small has be evaluated on it merits. if the story does not tick all the boxes then no mater how hard you work the results are going to be pretty much the same.

You can spend a life time obsessing over how long is piece of string? but without the information knowing how long it is you destined to spend the rest of your life speculating. For me the Lue is one such story it is just too vague and open to one million one speculations.

 

[mdog]

Agreed.

I love all treasure yarns love nothing better than a beer and treasure yarn.

But there is some not matter how famous they are I will avoid them like the plague. Because you can spend your life obsessing over speculation over speculation. Proverbially chasing rainbows.

Each story big or small has be evaluated on it merits. if the story does not tick all the boxes then no mater how hard you work the results are going to be pretty much the same.

You can spend a life time obsessing over how long is piece of string? but without the information knowing how long it is you destined to spend the rest of your life speculating. For me the Lue is one such story it is just too vague and open to one million one speculations.

I've learned more about the LUE, during the past several months, as I've concentrated my efforts to decipher it. Because treasure hunters have shared information, about their recoveries and research, I've been able to show evidence of recoveries made at LUE locations. I'm not a treasure hunter so I share my research, just as others have shared information with me. Even though I am confident in my mapping and interpretations, I still wouldn't recommend that people search at these places until they've done their own research.

I don't treasure hunt because I found out that I didn't like dealing with property owners or the government. If I did want to search, I have found several leads in the county where I live. My own grandfather used to hide jars of silver coins at different locations on his farm. You don't have to travel far, to find good leads.

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Perhaps he meant Gila County? That's not far from Apache Junction and Phoenix. Seems to me I once read the man he got the map from was in Phoenix, but he may have been referring broadly to the area rather than Phoeniz specifically.

Alternatively, there is also a Gila Bend, AZ.

Hi Randy,

The L U E is not in AZ or NM. Remember your video by Terry and the 105 degree. That my friend is where you will find the L U E.

Bests In Treasure

LUE-Hawn

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Thank you for the reply, Old Bookaroo.
Karl introduced the LUE clue to the public, after he solved it during 1957. Why would he do that, without some kind of explanation. Doesn't make sense.

mdog: The LUE is a much bigger deal today - at least, there is far more interest in it - than it was when KvonM published the map in his excellent Treasure Hunter's Manual #7 back in the mid-1960's. Although a great deal has been written about it since then, it's good to keep in mind that almost all the available useful information is on that one page, plus what KvonM wrote in Treasure of the Valley of Secrets and in the NPG. As is true with most of the legendary great unfound treasures, it can make for entertaining reading, but there are many more, more attractive targets out there.

I haven't identified when interest in the LUE began to take off. Was it a treasure magazine article? And I don't understand precisely why, either. Why are there far more Lost Dutchman Mine hunters than seekers of the Lost Adams Diggings?

Solo Dios sabe.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[sdcfia]

mdog: The LUE is a much bigger deal today - at least, there is far more interest in it - than it was when KvonM published the map in his excellent Treasure Hunter's Manual #7 back in the mid-1960's. Although a great deal has been written about it since then, it's good to keep in mind that almost all the available useful information is on that one page, plus what KvonM wrote in Treasure of the Valley of Secrets and in the NPG. As is true with most of the legendary great unfound treasures, it can make for entertaining reading, but there are many more, more attractive targets out there.

I haven't identified when interest in the LUE began to take off. Was it a treasure magazine article? And I don't understand precisely why, either. Why are there far more Lost Dutchman Mine hunters than seekers of the Lost Adams Diggings?

Solo Dios sabe.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

The expanded LUE interest came as a result of TNet primarily, IMO. And when the map was posted, it brought a new army of solvers to the scene. After all this, I'm still not certain what the LUE was.

At least the Lost Dutchman has some verifiable actors and a reasonably concentrated search area. Lost Adams searchers are faced with multiple and widespread target zones in two states, and a bewildering set of wildly conflicting tellings from the protagonist, who can't be identified for certain. Besides, more to the point, the so-called Lost Adams Diggings was never lost. Lost Adams

 

[Old Bookaroo]

The expanded LUE interest came as a result of TNet primarily, IMO. And when the map was posted, it brought a new army of solvers to the scene. After all this, I'm still not certain what the LUE was.

At least the Lost Dutchman has some verifiable actors and a reasonably concentrated search area. Lost Adams searchers are faced with multiple and widespread target zones in two states, and a bewildering set of wildly conflicting tellings from the protagonist, who can't be identified for certain. Besides, more to the point, the so-called Lost Adams Diggings was never lost. Lost Adams

As always, your points are well-taken and on target. I continue to believe the LDM is founded on a fantasy newspaper article. Yes, there are real people in the story - and a heavy layer of myth, such as the Peralta connection. Very similar to Father (Padre) La Rue - a principle in another treasure yarn who didn't exist.

When it comes to the LAD - I'll happily step aside and give you the floor.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[sdcfia]

As always, your points are well-taken and on target. I continue to believe the LDM is founded on a fantasy newspaper article. Yes, there are real people in the story - and a heavy layer of myth, such as the Peralta connection. Very similar to Father (Padre) La Rue - a principle in another treasure yarn who didn't exist.

When it comes to the LAD - I'll happily step aside and give you the floor.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

I agree, the LaRue character is fabricated.

Another, Pedro Navarez, wasn't fabricated, but the real person's antics were all lived out in Chihuahua, MX, not NM, USA. Here are some interesting links (need to translate into English):
Chato Navarez Legend
Suspense and terror