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Lost Gold? Supersticious Mountains? Need help? Map with cactus?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Macpoetsgirl
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Ladies & Gentlemen: I find it very difficult to understand the theory that Apaches, Aztecs, or whatever are still living secretly in the Superstitions. From personal exploration experience, I know that it is virtually impossible for even a small group to live in a limited area such as the Superstitions without eventually leaving obvious signs.

Today we have the area crisscrossed daily by tourists, gov't employees, aircraft, and also satelite coverage. Anyone staying in the area for even a few days, would leave a conspicuous trail.

Even if they lived in a cave with ample water inside, they still need firewood to heat and cook with. This fuel gathering would soon be noticed, especially if this covered a period of years. Smoke would be noticable, either visually or by odor ? I have found hidden ranches simply by following my nose.

Then there is the simple matter of food ????

Err, ahh, shall we go into the matter of food elimination ? Sooner or later this would be very evident through visible signs or odor.

I could go on for pages, but the above will give an idea as to why I cannot accept this theory.

As for firearms, a good revolver is adequate. Incidentally, NEVER use tracers, I did once one night, and had everyone shooting in my direction, both the Japanese and the Marines. The Marines for giving away my position.

Yes there are electrical fields in any geological formation such as the Superstitions, they can interact with a sensitive person to cause uneasiness, unless understood. Apol. for making this hyper simplified.


Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s Apol Witan for my taking issue with your post, but remember, just because my initials are "J C" does not mean that I am HIS equal or aways right. The lady in the next room will happily agree
sigh But please post more, I did enjoy it nevertheless.
 

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MI coffee drinking buddy BILL; You posted -->

Seen any unexplainable aberrations
YEP!
A couple of times
~~~~~~~~~~


Obviously, YOU were there ! snicker heheheehehh

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Incidentally, it is still spelled "T A Y O P A", heheehhe
 

For those wondering about the looks of primitive mine sites and tunnels.
Check out sites and pictures of handloading coal mines in the Appalachian mountains prior to War 2 in low coal seams.Rope operated skids to get the product from the face to the outside and a roof so low that if you had your #4 Ames scoop shovel turned the wrong way when you crawled to the working face you had to crawl back outside to turn it over and crawl back in.
 

Real de Tayopa said:
Ladies & Gentlemen: I find it very difficult to understand the theory that Apaches, Aztecs, or whatever are still living secretly in the Superstitions. From personal exploration experience, I know that it is virtually impossible for even a small group to live in a limited area such as the Superstitions without eventually leaving obvious signs.

Today we have the area crisscrossed daily by tourists, gov't employees, aircraft, and also satelite coverage. Anyone staying in the area for even a few days, would leave a conspicuous trail.

Even if they lived in a cave with ample water inside, they still need firewood to heat and cook with. This fuel gathering would soon be noticed, especially if this covered a period of years. Smoke would be noticable, either visually or by odor ? I have found hidden ranches simply by following my nose.

Then there is the simple matter of food ????

Err, ahh, shall we go into the matter of food elimination ? Sooner or later this would be very evident through visible signs or odor.

I could go on for pages, but the above will give an idea as to why I cannot accept this theory.

As for firearms, a good revolver is adequate. Incidentally, NEVER use tracers, I did once one night, and had everyone shooting in my direction, both the Japanese and the Marines. The Marines for giving away my position.

Yes there are electrical fields in any geological formation such as the Superstitions, they can interact with a sensitive person to cause uneasiness, unless understood. Apol. for making this hyper simplified.


Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s Apol Witan for my taking issue with your post, but remember, just because my initials are "J C" does not mean that I am HIS equal or aways right. The lady in the next room will happily agree
sigh But please post more, I did enjoy it nevertheless.
Click to expand...
Everything that you stated makes perfect, common sense. I would like to think that there are those out there whom have survived detection all of these years...but in North America the odds are greatly against it...with todays technology and ever wandering population.......Steve
 

Greetings,

Real de Tayopa wrote:
just because my initials are "J C" does not mean that I am HIS equal or aways right.
Click to expand...

HOLA mi amigo Jose' - and I would go out on a limb here and say that intellectually at least, I would put you on a par with Julius Caesar, whose initials are the same as yours. Not that I am trying to flatter you with an eye to getting a ticket to visit Tayopa...... ;D ;D :D ;) (heh heh)

I respectfully disagree with the statement about North America being SO covered with humanity and technology that there is little chance that anything could escape our detection - as good as our technology is, we cannot find a six-foot Arab in Afghanistan/Pakistan, for one example despite the best efforts of our most advanced technologies, and there are new species detected all over the world virtually all the time including herds of elephants.

A group or tribe of people trying to live and remain un-detected in North America I would say is extremely unlikely as human beings just cannot stay away from other human beings (now in South America this is quite another story, I would be willing to bet real cash that there could be one or more small tribes of people who have remained un-detected to the "outside world" by their own choice) - and I will go out on a limb and say that an individual man or a pair of people could remain un-detected for great lengths of time if they so desired. For instance there have been several man-hunts for criminals over the past years, in relative wilderness areas in which the man being sought was not found.

With our modern advanced techology we tend to get a rather conceited idea of how "good" we are at detecting and finding things, ignoring the sheer size of our country and the vast regions of wilderness and semi-wilderness areas that rarely if ever see the boot of modern man. Just look at the recent search for the missing adventurer Steve Fossett, a case in which an entire airplane could not be located and we can bet that if Fossett were alive he would have been taking steps to help himself GET found to see how far short we are in our abilities of seeking out things in our own 'backyard' wildernesses.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
 

AHAH Oro, I also can take issue with you on the possibilities of a group of Aztecs or Apaches still being holed up in the Superstitions.,

1 st) We are speaking of a fairly small area effectively,

2 nd) water and firewood are an extreme problem.

3 rd food is a basic requirement even for an Aztec or Apache ( why blame the pore Apache for everything?) just a few trips in and out or to the source will betray them.

4 th) As far as Fossett goes, he disappeared in timber country and also in a vast stretch of ground. the Superstitions just cannot compare, plus the possible hiding or living places are severely limited in the Superstitions.

5th) Despite your being so -------- (snicker, agreed BETH ?) , I agree that there are vast areas where someone could exist undetected for ears, but the south western desert is not one. You well know this from personal experience. Yes, one can get lost, and even die out there, but not set up housekeeping over the years without detection. You can lose a temp trail for many reasons, but a trail that has been used over the years is like a highway to any experienced outsdoors man such as yourself. Using sat. imagery I have found old trails up at Tayopa that are not visible on the ground, this also includes the remains of old mission's or buildings.

If some one was hiding in a cave complex, and they left the cave for food and water say 30 or 40 times it would be visible from a sat photo. aircraft, and most likely on the ground.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s.I am suprised that you did not mention ISHI.
 

HOLA mi amigo,

You appear to misunderstand my previous post, I agree that the idea of a group of wild Apaches still living in the Superstitions and remaining un-detected all this time is (IN MY OPINION) an extremely unlikely proposition. I do not propose that we have a group of Indios living in the Superstitions. Hence the earlier post, "A group or tribe of people trying to live and remain un-detected in North America I would say is extremely unlikely <snip>

I did not mention Ishi as that was nearly a century ago, but I do disagree with you on the idea that in the American southwest that we are so good at searching the area, the people could not go un-detected. Have you forgotten how many Mexicans and other alien people cross this very area on a daily basis, with our Border Patrol using motion detectors etc yet they slip by? How about the number of people who simply "vanish" into the deserts of the southwest every year, either by simply getting lost or injured, or not of their own volition (kidnapping, murder, etc) - as relatively tree-less and open as much of the southwest is, it is not a vast flat-open plain but cut through with numberless canyons and many mountain ranges. I would propose that it is relatively easy to be 'hidden' in much of the southwest desert country with little effort, simply by making use of the terrain. Satellite imagery or no, we are not at the level of technology where human beings could not escape detection in the American southwest. :o :( Even your example of a person hiding in a cave but venturing out to get water being detectable by satellite - if this were truly the case, then we ought to have caught and killed Osama bin Ladin within days of the opening shots of the war. We just "ain't that good" - not yet anyway.

Oroblanco
 

R.de T. :
It is obvious that alot of these kinds of "posts" are made by persons who haven't visited the areas they are speaking about!
I was born in Phoenix and I spent many days/week in the Superstitions
I Never saw "An Indian" of any kind !
I have gone into them from all sides, East/west & from both ends, No/So.
I have been there alone, just me'n dog, and trips, bac pac'n/camping, with friends
Your Post was most eloquently put! ::)


One day... Amigo ... I'll show you The TEOPA Peak/mission & Mines
'cause I have seen the map !! (from Seville) ;D
 

HIO BILL and ORO:

Oro you posted ------> We just "ain't that good in reference to osama, perhaps they just don't actually "want" to find him? If they killed him, who would be the bogey man to be used to continue to push our constitution killing "war on Terrorism program"?

Evenif you call me a stupid s.o.b, it will not effect your eventual trip to Tayopa, although there is nothing to see yet, everythng has been left as I found it, pending permits.

Bill, i was in contact with our friend and his brother's map. That lies near the Guaynopa/ Guaynopita, the area of no. 1.

I am in Tucson hint

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

HOLA mi amigo Real de Tayopa,

Actually I think we are in agreement viz wild Apaches/Aztecs living in the Superstitions, and yes I have to agree that if Osama is ever 'taken out' we would have to find another bogey man. However as impressive as our govt abilities to spy are, they are still far from perfect. They want US to think they never miss anything, but the facts speak otherwise.

Real de Tayopa wrote:
Evenif you call me a stupid s.o.b, it will not effect your eventual trip to Tayopa
Click to expand...

:o ;D :D ;) That is good to know! ;D However it would be a lie to call you that particular name, and it is not right to call anyone a name that is un-deserved at any rate. Besides I have been trying to pretend that I am a gentleman here on T-net, and have refrained from calling names to the best of my ability. How would my pretense of gentleman-ship look if I were to start calling names, and especially at members whom are my friends! :o ;D :D ;) Perish the thought! :o :( :-[ :'(
Oroblanco
 

The idea of an indiginous people still living undetected on US soil is ridiculous especially in such an open place as the desert of Arizona. Do you realize how many would have to be alive in order to survive....WITHOUT BEING SEEN. The Arizona desert is more well travelled than you may believe.
 

I beg of you all to cease and desist bludgeoning the deceased equine . As an AZ resident I know it is all too obvious that sooner or later one of these "secret" people will succumb to temptation and try to sneak out to buy a Powerball ticket . Hey , now that I think of it what are the chances that Osama in in the Superstitions ???
 

I grew up in El Centro Ca. My Dad worked for the Border Patrol. He used to take me camping in the Superstition Mtns when I was a kid. They are in a bombing range from what he told me (Yes, we went camping in a bombing range but luckily we weren't bombed). They are north west of El Centro. I don't know if Superstition Mtns are the official name but that is what the locals referred to them as.
 

well the superstitions in AZ are only about what 15-20 miles if that from the AZ National Guard Artillery Range. so a little off calculation you could be in a bombing range in the AZ Supers too :D :D :D

as a youth before joining the Army I have spent days and weeks in the AZ Superstitions also and have had the being watched feeling but never saw anything..

Anyone here been to La Barge Canyon lately.. I found some intersting stuff there thats modern but that was 15 years and I wonder if its still there.. It looked like someone was trying to set up a remote Marijuana growing site.. they left plenty of stuff there so you know they were there. Wonder if they got busted or their plans didnt work out well.
 

Macpoetsgirl said:
My father searched for a treasure I think it was in the Superstitious Mountains in California (It is the story of some lost gold that was buried and never found) I have information that can help you if you are interested. I would have to have you sent me a copy of the actual map to see if I recognize it. I do not have a copy of it nor would I be interested in looking for it. However I have information that can help you. And all I ask is that if the information I share with you helps you find the treasure you just remember who to reward for it. You must be a person of your word. If interested email me at macpoetsgirl1@cs.com I have seen the map many times in the pass if you sent me a copy of it I will know if its the map he used ( I havent seen a copy in over 12 years). Then I will share the info with you. I would personally look for it myself except 1-I am a female 2-It is on tough terrain 3-Its very dangerous 4-The person that finds it runs high danger risk. Believe me when I tell you it scared my dad enought never to go back. He has since passed and it would give me great pleasure if someone would find it. It was his obsession. My details are a little fuzzy but if you know what Im talking about get in contact with me- Clear my mind a bit and I promise I will help you.
Click to expand...



i have a freind that lives near, elcentro ca, he does the off road 4x4 riding, at
Superstition Mountain, in elcentro, i asked if he had heard of lost treasure, he said
no but there are some old mines,looked around on net and found,this info
since she dosent know for sure where her father looked, and maybe because he thought,
this was the Superstition Mountain for the dutchman. maybe this is where he looked
though i dont think she ever said, it was the dutchman mine, he was looking for

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/tumco.html

map of mine location
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/tumco.html

map of who manages what
Land Status Map
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/mapelcentro1.html

topo in pdf of area
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...Par.46339.File.dat/superstition8x11_mar07.pdf
 

Hey Gang,
There are stories of " buried " gold and rifles in the Cal Superstitions. But The military has this under a TON of security out there, and it would be really hard to do anything there without getting in trouble. BE CAREFUL !!!! Ask Gollum he knows more about it than I do. Seamuss try going over the area on google earth with your "big " friend ( the tracks show be visible ).

PLL
 

General Note! If you don't have the feeling of being watched anytime when you are alone in the wilderness anywhere in the world no matter how remote - then you are being careless... Just kidding! Like the guy said earlier, some people are just hyper-sensitive, and don't' realize it. You should always be alert anytime. That's why I have used a trained dog on a yo-yo leash. Safety is in the heart of danger, and the most valuable treasure is always undug.
 

Good morning GIMI---------, you posted -->

the most valuable treasure is always undug.
~~~~~~~
A) Not true, you now know me. snicker.

Seriously, your senses should be always be on hyper in many areas. They have saved me on various occasions.

Don Jose de La mancha
 

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