Oroblanco
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Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?
Gollum wrote
Please stop making assumptions about what I read or did not read, what I believe etc based on questions posed or what is mentioned or not mentioned. I won't raise the whole issue of Hutton never once making any mention of finding any such field of skeletons in any report. The areas where Lt Hutton seems to have campaigned also makes no mention of any scout taking place in the Superstitions, but in Skull Valley, Prescott area and NE of there some considerable distances. However you have proposed dates which many Dutch hunters will agree with.
The problem is that by Waltz's own words, all of those Peralta-saga adventures took place before he filed on a piece of land in Phoenix; and we know that he filed on that land in 1868. We don't have a timeline for Waltz's movements to get a date for his story of the massacre, it could be a year it could be ten. If it happened in 1867 and Edwards/Green found the remains 1865.....! To further cause problems with the whole timeline, we can document Waltz as being present in Mississippi in 1848, in Sacramento in 1850, in Fellow Camp CA in 1860 where he remained until the flood of 1862, and Waltz is reported in La Paz AZ that same year; he filed on the Gross Lode in 1863 and the Big Rebel in 1864 both in the Prescott region; then the General Grant and he signed a petition in March of '64 from 1863 to 65/66 he seems to have remained there and done pretty well for himself. Waltz arrived in the Phoenix region in January or February of 1868 where he joined the men working on Swilling's irrigation project. So the whole timeline thing gets to be a real problem. Especially so since the Starar brothers seem to have contacted Waltz in the Prescott region to come and work at the 'big dig' and he then appears in Phoenix. Can't prove that Waltz was still in Prescott region in Dec of 67, but how else were the Starar brothers able to locate him?
If we say that Waltz and Weiser met with Peralta between 1866 and Feb of 1868, then there are many movements to have to fit in that space of time; According to the version found in Ely's book, he had gone with the Peraltas from Sonora to the mine, made the deal and returned with only his partner; went to Adams Mill for flour and came back to camp to find unmistakable signs of an Indian ambush including a bloody shirt that belonged to his partner. He then went to Mexico to tell Peralta, found him gone so went to live with the Pimas a while, <how long?> then to San Francisco where he worked on the docks; he then returned to Phoenix and filed on a homestead. That seems like rather a lot of movement to fit in that less than two years span of time.
The Peralta legend remains doubtful for me, however it is not essential to the basic fact of Waltz having gold from an unknown source.
Roy
Gollum wrote
Roy,
Once again it seems you failed to read the entire story. The Lt was not present when Edwards found the skeletons. The Lt made his decision from the saddle. He never got off his horse. In Edwards own words, after he found the gold he planned on coming back, so he didn't argue the point with Lt. Hutton. We also don't have anything written by Lt Hutton to give his thoughts or reasoning.
Also remember, its' not just Edwards. We have the Indian Scout Joe Green who came back with Matt Cavaness.
Waltz and Weiser first got to the mine in about 1874-1876.
The massacre happened about 1863-1864
Please stop making assumptions about what I read or did not read, what I believe etc based on questions posed or what is mentioned or not mentioned. I won't raise the whole issue of Hutton never once making any mention of finding any such field of skeletons in any report. The areas where Lt Hutton seems to have campaigned also makes no mention of any scout taking place in the Superstitions, but in Skull Valley, Prescott area and NE of there some considerable distances. However you have proposed dates which many Dutch hunters will agree with.
The problem is that by Waltz's own words, all of those Peralta-saga adventures took place before he filed on a piece of land in Phoenix; and we know that he filed on that land in 1868. We don't have a timeline for Waltz's movements to get a date for his story of the massacre, it could be a year it could be ten. If it happened in 1867 and Edwards/Green found the remains 1865.....! To further cause problems with the whole timeline, we can document Waltz as being present in Mississippi in 1848, in Sacramento in 1850, in Fellow Camp CA in 1860 where he remained until the flood of 1862, and Waltz is reported in La Paz AZ that same year; he filed on the Gross Lode in 1863 and the Big Rebel in 1864 both in the Prescott region; then the General Grant and he signed a petition in March of '64 from 1863 to 65/66 he seems to have remained there and done pretty well for himself. Waltz arrived in the Phoenix region in January or February of 1868 where he joined the men working on Swilling's irrigation project. So the whole timeline thing gets to be a real problem. Especially so since the Starar brothers seem to have contacted Waltz in the Prescott region to come and work at the 'big dig' and he then appears in Phoenix. Can't prove that Waltz was still in Prescott region in Dec of 67, but how else were the Starar brothers able to locate him?
If we say that Waltz and Weiser met with Peralta between 1866 and Feb of 1868, then there are many movements to have to fit in that space of time; According to the version found in Ely's book, he had gone with the Peraltas from Sonora to the mine, made the deal and returned with only his partner; went to Adams Mill for flour and came back to camp to find unmistakable signs of an Indian ambush including a bloody shirt that belonged to his partner. He then went to Mexico to tell Peralta, found him gone so went to live with the Pimas a while, <how long?> then to San Francisco where he worked on the docks; he then returned to Phoenix and filed on a homestead. That seems like rather a lot of movement to fit in that less than two years span of time.
The Peralta legend remains doubtful for me, however it is not essential to the basic fact of Waltz having gold from an unknown source.
Roy