Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this picture?

[cactusjumper]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Mike,

I would say you are mistaken, but it's an understandable mistake.

That picture was taken, approximately, just above Willow Spring. That by one of those strange coincidences, is exactly where Adolph Ruth camped, and was probably killed.

Adding to that piece of circumstantial evidence, is another strange coincidence. That is exactly where P.C. Bicknell camped. It is also located on the Stone Map Trail, and is very close to where Harry LaFrance found his cave of gold bars......so they say.

Getting back to P.C. Bicknell's directions, which Ruth was carrying, if you follow them to the letter, you will find a steep ravine/canyon coming in from the east side of West Boulder with a sealed mine towards the top.

I could add a few more coincidences, but you get the idea.

It's an interesting area.

One other question......How many times do you think Waltz visited his mine?

Take care,

Joe

 

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[Blindbowman]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

less times then he visited the sallon ...lol OK joe lets look at the logic here and see why its a fooolish theory .. for one if Waltz was trying to kill dick holmes . he would not have given julia any real info .. he would have known she could not be trusted .. and he would not want dick holmes to take the info from her like he did with the ore under the bed .. oK ruth goes to williow springs then what .. you can see weaver's needle from up there .. but where do you go from there >

he never gave any more details that match the area of williow springs... i give you a point for the fact the area dose match the masscre site details . but there is nothing else to link waltz to the area ...

besides that west bolder is a long ways from williow springs

so let me ask you a logical question joe .. if what your saying is correct did the person that killed ruth move his body or his head ?

think about what i just asked you .. if the person move the body , he had a horse to move it that far ..ythis says the head is where ruth really was killed at ..

 

[gollum]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Mike,

I would say you are mistaken, but it's an understandable mistake.

That picture was taken, approximately, just above Willow Spring. That by one of those strange coincidences, is exactly where Adolph Ruth camped, and was probably killed.

Adding to that piece of circumstantial evidence, is another strange coincidence. That is exactly where P.C. Bicknell camped. It is also located on the Stone Map Trail, and is very close to where Harry LaFrance found his cave of gold bars......so they say.

Getting back to P.C. Bicknell's directions, which Ruth was carrying, if you follow them to the letter, you will find a steep ravine/canyon coming in from the east side of West Boulder with a sealed mine towards the top.

I could add a few more coincidences, but you get the idea.

It's an interesting area.

One other question......How many times do you think Waltz visited his mine?

Take care,

Joe

Well,

He found it (or was showed it) approximately 1874-6. His last visit was maybe 1881-1884? My guess is 6-8 times (give or take one or two).

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Watchit BB bub, a mature gentleman in his 80's.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Watchit BB bub, a mature gentleman in his 80's.

Don Jose de La Mancha

if you were friends with julia would you have went out in the desert and left her in town ,,,lol

80 or not ...?

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Cactusjumper wrote

Waltz drew that picture from memory and while in the process of dying.

Can you present the provenance of that sketch/map, which traces it to Waltz? Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

I believe it was found in a stamp album or something like it belonging to someone in the Petrasch Family.

Mike

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Watchit BB bub, a mature gentleman in his 80's.

Don Jose de La Mancha

a gentleman

,, thats not she said you old dog ...LOL

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Cactusjumper wrote

Waltz drew that picture from memory and while in the process of dying.

Can you present the provenance of that sketch/map, which traces it to Waltz? Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

Roy,

That is a very good question. The answer is.....no, I can't.

To be honest, I don't think I ever thought about it before you asked. Going back into the book, I'm leaning towards Bertie Roberts as the source. She was the source for much of the Petrasch information in Helen Corbin's book.......through Kraig Roberts, who stated that she was his aunt, or great-aunt.

That's the best I can do.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Twisted Fork]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

The only thing wrong with this picture posted is the very addition of the name "Superstitions Mountain." If it were in the Supers, it would read "Superstition Mountains"Four peaks is in about the right place. Tontos right? Along the Salt ok?

It's only there to reference the territory.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Beth, another example here...........

Same picture, ready to be cut and used as an overlay. Like a dot to dot puzzle.

Heavy black line across the middle, shows where to cut the traced out diagram in half to form two separate feeds to overlay. Now you have an engine.

Original just gets you into the area on a mile to mile scale. Now your looking for markers at the site.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Hola amigo Twisted Fork - I don't know if Beth is following this thread, I will give her a 'heads up' when she gets back online. Interesting idea you have there though.
Roy

 

[Twisted Fork]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Thanks Roy............More fun than a cliff covered with Apaches.

This really works; clues to the trail as you cut around on paper. S is the Salt and the S in it.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Interesting.

Can you place the mission/church that is on the stones in that map scenario?

Beth

 

[Twisted Fork]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Close to water flat

Smelter site is at the far right limit of your N, on the water as well. You may be looking at a symbol group which actually refers to a "vault" that belongs to the mission or monks as the paper map states "The Priest who stands by the River." The Guardian Monk. A massive Saguaro with arms outreached upward and aside; as the cross in parentheses, reference to the dominate figure it gives sign to. A rich mine will provide far more than can be carried back to Mexico thus a storage facility. Weigh-bill Ones testimony, ones Witness; fitting to make the stones as grave markers.

Not necessarily a building on the grounds unless it was a little church in the mouth of a small cave. It would not have taken very long to bury the funnel mine. The months spent hauling stone by the Apache, may have been used to bury the little cave across from the vault I presume.

 

[gollum]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Interesting.

Can you place the mission/church that is on the stones in that map scenario?

Beth

Beth,

What makes you think that is a Church/Mission? If you believe Chuck Kenworthy'S Book, that is not a cross but a Tobias Symbol (or Tobit). What that means is that this is the start or beginning of a trail to treasure (or wealth). It comes from the Book of Tobit (Tobias). It tells the story of the Son of Tobit who is tasked by his blind father to recover a sum of money he had hidden in Media.

(Below is a comparison) Look familiar?

Also, what body of water is that bottom one? Queen Creek? Gila River?

Just adding a thought.

Best-Mike



P.S.

Roy and Beth,

Here is a little something regarding the Peralta Massacre. I just got off the phone with Bob Corbin. He told me the story about how he got ahold of the journals of both Sgt. William Edwards and Joe Green (the two troopers who found the skeletons). He says that after reading the diaries, there is absolutely no doubt that those skeletons were Mexican, not Indian.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Mike,

[Roy and Beth,

Here is a little something regarding the Peralta Massacre. I just got off the phone with Bob Corbin. He told me the story about how he got ahold of the journals of both Sgt. William Edwards and Joe Green (the two troopers who found the skeletons). He says that after reading the diaries, there is absolutely no doubt that those skeletons were Mexican, not Indian.

Best-Mike]

Bob is one of the true gentlemen of the LDM Community. He had some really amazing sources, and has more than paid his dues in the mountains. Treasures come in many forms and Bob is one of them. If he told you he believes in his source for that story, you can take that to the bank.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Interesting.

Can you place the mission/church that is on the stones in that map scenario?

Beth

Beth,

What makes you think that is a Church/Mission? If you believe Chuck Kenworthy'S Book, that is not a cross but a Tobias Symbol (or Tobit). What that means is that this is the start or beginning of a trail to treasure (or wealth). It comes from the Book of Tobit (Tobias). It tells the story of the Son of Tobit who is tasked by his blind father to recover a sum of money he had hidden in Media.

(Below is a comparison) Look familiar?

Also, what body of water is that bottom one? Queen Creek? Gila River?

Just adding a thought.

Best-Mike



P.S.

Roy and Beth,

Here is a little something regarding the Peralta Massacre. I just got off the phone with Bob Corbin. He told me the story about how he got ahold of the journals of both Sgt. William Edwards and Joe Green (the two troopers who found the skeletons). He says that after reading the diaries, there is absolutely no doubt that those skeletons were Mexican, not Indian.

Best-Mike

so you do know its a Tobias Symbol .. and yes you are correct ..

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Mike,

[Roy and Beth,

Here is a little something regarding the Peralta Massacre. I just got off the phone with Bob Corbin. He told me the story about how he got ahold of the journals of both Sgt. William Edwards and Joe Green (the two troopers who found the skeletons). He says that after reading the diaries, there is absolutely no doubt that those skeletons were Mexican, not Indian.

Best-Mike]

Bob is one of the true gentlemen of the LDM Community. He had some really amazing sources, and has more than paid his dues in the mountains. Treasures come in many forms and Bob is one of them. If he told you he believes in his source for that story, you can take that to the bank.

Take care,

Joe

did bob tell you where & what started the Peralta Massacre...?


the massacre started at the Tayopa mine about 60ft in front of the mine there are human remains burn to death like they were cooked in oil or tar ... i would say there are 6 -7 in sight and maybe as many as 12-14 in a 30 yard area ...some were beheaded others burn alive by the looks , one has its mouth open like its screaming ,baked and black as sut ... it looks like they tried to hide in a small ditch area . and were draged out and killed

no proof , . it never happend !
i dont know nothing ,,i have not seen anything , i dont want to talk about it ...latter

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Actually, I don't know its a Tobias symbol. I think it is another assumption.

Based on some of the other things recently posted in different places, now the stones have absolutely nothing to do with the Supers/LDM and now
we are skirting around jewels, treasures and the like.

What makes you think its a Tobias symbol? It doesn't match any symbol you have shown - only parts. And, if you know what a Tobias symbol means - it doesn't even make sense to be there on the stones.

Considering all the people that were in the Superstitions over the years, I sincerely doubt that anyone can ascertain whether or not the bones were
spanish or indian - in fact, in truth, many, many MANY of the spanish of the time were actually both Spanish and Indian. I do not believe that any tests done back then could ascertain that as any sort of fact.

Just because someone else is convinced of someone's nationality, doesn't do a whole lot for me, and, while, honestly, I have lots and lots of
respect for people like Bob Corbin, again, it is an opinion - yes, maybe a more educated one then mine, but still an opinion from someone who does not have the fruits of their labors - in hand.

Having both spanish and indian in my family, I can tell you, without a doubt, that the "looks" can be very much the same. I can guarantee that if you saw a picture of my mother-in-law, you would not be able to tell.


Beth