Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this picture?

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

I take it that you have no answer to my question?

 

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[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

You don't know how to tell the difference do you? I don't either; it is not possible to tell the difference from a satellite image alone as far as I know, which is one of the big reasons why I remain un-convinced that you found anything of importance, let alone the Lost Dutchman mine. Thank you for finally clearing that issue up for me however, and now perhaps you can understand why I remain so skeptical of what you claim to have found.

Best of luck with your movie ventures, I will sure make the trip to the theater to see it and not even wait for it to come out on DVD.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Santa Fe NM wrote

You don't know how to tell the difference No Oro "You dont know how to tell the difference" ((((You)))) are putting words in my mouth again, and them are fightn words you better delete them before I Squeal on you to jeff and your banned from here forever!!!!!!! This is your LAST WARNING before I BLOW THE WHISTLE.

Ah, but John I stated it as a question, and like the earlier question you dodged, is my own words. Did I hit a nerve when we found out you can't tell the difference between a water well and a mineshaft? Lots of people can't tell that difference while standing next to them, let alone from a satellite image amigo. Feel free to go ahead and blow the whistle on me, have me banned forever etc however your open threat of "fighting words" makes it seem as if you have a hot temper. Do you have a hot temper John? I would suggest that you try to control your temper in your future pursuit of your dreams, for it will not help you get a movie contract signed, nor a book deal, if you lose your temper just because of such a simple discussion as we are having here.

Good luck and good hunting Santa Fe NM, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Hi Paul,

[Joe, I know you've mentioned more than once that Julia and Rhiney made their first search through Hog Canyon. I know you put alot of stock in Sims Ely, so why don't you believe when Sims says that Helena (Julia) sold her business and with Rhiney took a wagon and team to First Water on the northerly side of the Superstition Wall and walked into the mountains from that direction?]

Actually, I've been saying that for many years now. I am aware of what is in Ely's book, but my guess is that this fact was one of the things from the Bark Notes that the family asked, or told him, to leave out.

"As I was riding the range about six miles west of the home ranch in August 1892 or 1893. I met some campers near an old well belonging to ranch, and they proved to be a colored woman by the name of Thomas and a young man about 18 years old by the name of Rhiney Petrach, whom Mr. and Mrs. Thomas had adopted." The Bark Notes.

"Six miles west of the home ranch" (Quarter Circle-U) puts them at Hog Canyon. For many reasons, Hog Canyon makes perfect sense.

Take care,

Joe

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

[mod] YOU CONTINUE TO PROVOKE OTHERS ON THIS FORUM. We reserve the right to ban any user, and/or delete any user account (including all posts) at any time, for any reason. Bans are not subject to member review, approval, protest, or appeal.
GET THE HINT? [/mod]

Very Clearly Jeff, I Definateley get the hint, Say No More Consider it "Clear" to me and All.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Santa Fe NM wrote

Your only goal has been to shoot me down since my first day here a year ago hitting a nerve is an understatement. If you want to argue keep bringing it!

Wrong amigo, I have been asking you to convince me that what you claim is true, but you refuse.

Santa Fe NM also wrote

Whats the real problem here Roy. youve never liked me from day one. you act like some negative reporter, that will chew you up as that you so often talk about, are you the news reporter and if you really think thats how they act why are you acting like that? Whats your problem and what are you trying to prove by trying to disect me. You have an open floor to challenge my case but why are you making this PERSONAL

Who said I never liked you? I said I don't trust you, not dislike you. You have been the first to get hostile and make personal attacks and insults on me every time John, and I tried to be polite to you even when you were being rude, nasty, sarcastic and even threatening. This new hostile "act" that YOU are putting on tells me that indeed, you do not know how to tell the difference between a hand dug water well and a mineshaft, and I even told you that most people can't so you should not be upset that you are not able to do what most people are not able to do. There is absolutely nothing personal in it at all, except from YOUR side.

Santa Fe NM also wrote

""""Spill It Roy"""" Right HERE OUT IN THE OPEN whats your BEEF?

What does strike me about you is that you want all the glory and fame of being "the" one who found the Lost Dutchman gold mine, but are not willing to do what it takes to EARN THAT HONOR. You have not presented anything much different from the claims of at least 99 other people who claimed to have found the Lost Dutchman, but never seem to have a speck of GOLD. If you are able to pull it off and get that kind of honor and fame, without ever having to come up with any ORE, good for you, more power to you, hope your movie makes you rich and your book goes on the NY bestseller list; however without that ore matching Waltz's ore, some of us just won't believe you found that Lost Dutchman mine. It is no skin off my nose, and shouldn't be any off yours.

Santa Fe NM wrote

ORO WROTE: "if you lose your temper just because of such a simple discussion as we are having here" DUDE youve been provoking me non stop for one year TEMPER IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think that I am provoking you, wait until you have that press announcement meeting! They will be like a pack of wolves to you John, for they want FACTS not hot air. You need to take a chill pill before you blow a gasket. Quit this hostile crap amigo, it will never prove your case and in fact will make people LESS likely to believe you.
Oroblanco

 

[Old Dog]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

ORO WROTE: "if you lose your temper just because of such a simple discussion as we are having here" DUDE youve been provoking me non stop for one year TEMPER IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not provoking, Just asking a question.
stop dodging and answer.
simple solution.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Per,

"And of course, I'm not going to ask _where_ and _how_ you got that li'l scetch of Jacob's, but where is it from?? I've never,ever seen that one referred to before .."

I've posted that picture many times on different forums, including here. Probably the first time I didn't give proper credit as to the source. It's an interesting story, but I will not post it here. You will need to buy Helen Corbin's book, "The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz." Page 134

I have two copies, one in soft cover and the other leather bound. The leather-bound hard cover was given to me as a gift. I count it as one of the many treasures I have received from my years of keeping close company with the Superstition Mountains and her legends.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Lets See I love Cactus I love Jim I love ellie baba I love twisted fork I love beth I love jeff I love ancient ones I love tom I love Jesus. I HAVE NO LOVE FOR Roy A Decker Because hes alway givin me a rash of sh...

It seems like a ration to you, because you will not do what it takes to prove that you really did find the Lost Dutchman. So you have no love for me, because I am open and honest with you about what you need to do if you really want that fame and honor. Sheesh. Would you prefer if I just LIED to you and told you wonderful congratulations, kudos etc thus helping to set you up for a major embarrassment and disappointment when you try to present your case to the news media? What kind of friend would that be, to just tell you lies? Is that what you want, lies?
Roy A. Decker

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Quite the opposite Roy A Decker I have been asking you to convince me that what I claim With my Discovery is NOT true, but it is you WHO Refuse.

 

[Old Dog]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

OLD DOG YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE

Little man,
When you can say you have as many years "on the ground" as I have ... (or even a fraction of).
I will give you the benifit of that doubt.
Until then, I believe you have just lost any credibility you may have had.
Have fun with google earth,
I think your game wears thin.

Don't give up your day job.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Quite the opposite Roy A Decker I have been asking you to convince me that what I claim With my Discovery is NOT true, but it is you WHO Refuse.

Why do you keep using my full name? Is it faster and easier? You have said that you are a smart man; if that is true, then you know in your own heart that your statement here is totally backwards from reality; when ever someone makes a claim to have made a new discovery - THAT PERSON HAS TO PROVE IT. I do not claim to have found the Lost Dutchman gold mine, YOU do. Therefore, as several others have told you repeatedly, the burden of proof is on you. You won't even answer my questions about your discovery and how you discovered it, so I don't know how you expect that people are going to just swallow your story.

You can go ahead and post a barrage, call me names, complain to the mods etc whatever will make you happy John, but I am through even trying to talk to you. You misunderstand too much, refuse to answer too much, get hostile too much. My patience with you is at an end. I think you will have major problems in getting the deals and recognition you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Santa Fe New Mexican, <John> - as much as I hate to use it, and try to avoid it, consider yourself on IGNORE. Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

The truth is Roy A. Decker knows I John V. Kemm found the ldm, and he just cant stand it, so he does every thing he can to avoid accepting it but deep inside he knows . Many Many People Know That I Have Found It

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Beth Quoted: They had a bunch of different maps in their vehicle - including some stuff from your "I found the LDM using Google Earth".

Quoted From News: It was the third time Merworth had come to the Superstitions looking for treasure. Searchers rescued him from the terrain in May 2009.

His mother, Carol, described him as "gold crazy," in an interview before the search was suspended.

"""""He was certain he was going to find this mine,""""" she said.
YOU TELL ME

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

I encourage anyone to investigate this finding of mine the exact coordinates are 33°26'46.06"N 111°21'44.38"W 1847m (lattitude longitude and range) HERE IS A PICTURE FROM GOOGLE EARTH! http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=803112&filename=33°26'46.06N 111°21'44.38W.kmz DOWNLOAD GOOGLE EARTH NOW TO VIEW THE ABOVE LINK http://earth.google.com/


Beth Says they had my stuff this is the only stuff there is that she is refering.

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

It was the """"third time"""" Merworth had come to the Superstitions """""He was certain he was going to find this mine,""""" Why was he so certain, and it was his third time? He had failed Twice Before and somehow made it home both times. What makes this trip so different?

 

[gollum]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Santa Fe New Mexican, <John> - as much as I hate to use it, and try to avoid it, consider yourself on IGNORE. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Roy A Decker HAHAHA,

Congratulations! You have FINALLY done what every other rational poster at TNet has done; PUT KEMMY ON IGNORE!

Now, whatever you do, don't fall into the trap and peek at his ramblings, or you will get sucked back into his pot smoke induced vortex of ignorint ramblings.

Best-Mike

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Hi Paul,

[Joe, I know you've mentioned more than once that Julia and Rhiney made their first search through Hog Canyon. I know you put alot of stock in Sims Ely, so why don't you believe when Sims says that Helena (Julia) sold her business and with Rhiney took a wagon and team to First Water on the northerly side of the Superstition Wall and walked into the mountains from that direction?]

Actually, I've been saying that for many years now. I am aware of what is in Ely's book, but my guess is that this fact was one of the things from the Bark Notes that the family asked, or told him, to leave out.

"As I was riding the range about six miles west of the home ranch in August 1892 or 1893. I met some campers near an old well belonging to ranch, and they proved to be a colored woman by the name of Thomas and a young man about 18 years old by the name of Rhiney Petrach, whom Mr. and Mrs. Thomas had adopted." The Bark Notes.

"Six miles west of the home ranch" (Quarter Circle-U) puts them at Hog Canyon. For many reasons, Hog Canyon makes perfect sense.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

While you may be correct in your assumptions, take a step back and look at this from my perspective. As I mentioned, you've made it clear that you put a great deal of faith in Sims Ely's book and his word. His book has a definitive provenance - that being that he was the author. I don't know how much was actually written directly by him, or how much editing took place, etc... but the fact is, it's documented that he is the author.

The Bark notes on the other hand (at least all the copies you and I have seen) have little or no provenance. There's no proof that they are truly Jim Bark's word at all, in fact one could make a better case that it's likely they are an adulterated version at best, and possibly a fabrication at worst. You know the stories about how they were "discovered" as well as anyone - as a source of information, at the very least, the Bark Notes as we know them should be strongly questioned as to their accuracy.

I understand why you choose to believe that Julia and Rhiney's first trip was through Hog Canyon, but when you step back and look at why you believe that, it's primarily because it fits your theory correct? The issue I have is that you can't just pick and choose what parts of something you want to believe just because they match your theory. Either you believe Sims Ely's book and his word, or you don't - it becomes problematic when parts of his book are used to defend a belief, while other parts are discarded because they don't point in the same direction one wants it to.

Does that make sense? I honestly don't mean to be argumentative here Joe, and I don't mean to come off as being a smart%#$. Heck, when it comes down to it, both the Ely story and Bark story about Julia and Rhiney might be correct since neither one actually comes out and says it was their "first" trip into the mountains. It's implied that way in Ely's book, but never says it.

 

[Javaone]

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Santa Fe New Mexican, <John> - as much as I hate to use it, and try to avoid it, consider yourself on IGNORE. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Finnally! I can't understand why it took you so long Oro.