Looking Outside The Box

[Rebel - KGC]

"IF" the amount of the deposits are accurate, and "if" this was purified metal, then this had to be either A) "accumulated" wealth over a long period of time, or B) wealth acquire from an extremely large and rich operation.

Ore would have to be mined, crushed, smelted & separated, etc. Just way too much gold and silver in the BP for thirty men to have achieved even with the aid of some Indians.

Another "IF"... to "WHAT IF"; What If the "Mining Operation" went on from 1819-1884? BEALE PAPERS written, then released to Lynchburg, Va. "readers" in 1885...

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Now a "WHY"... Why ONLY in Lynchburg, VIRGINIA...?

 

[bigscoop]

Now a "WHY"... Why ONLY in Lynchburg, VIRGINIA...?

I think you've hit on a great question, Reb, and here's my opinion on that:

I think it's only Lynchburg because that's basically were the core of story begins and ends, i.e., this is where our focus is naturally drawn to. But the "it" as it was told was also in St. Louis, Richmond, Santa Fe, and somewhere undisclosed out west. So "it" isn't just Lynchburg, this is just where are focus is naturally drawn.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I think you've hit on a great question, Reb, and here's my opinion on that:

I think it's only Lynchburg because that's basically were the core of story begins and ends, i.e., this is where our focus is naturally drawn to. But the "it" as it was told was also in St. Louis, Richmond, Santa Fe, and somewhere undisclosed out west. So "it" isn't just Lynchburg, this is just where are focus is naturally drawn.

Was ONLY "chatting" about BEALE PAPERS (the pamphlet)...

 

[bigscoop]

The mines south of there--- where James Beard and Robert McKnight were going when arrested by the Spanish was producing over 1 million ounces of gold a year and some mines were producing more. It is possible for that much gold to be mined and smelted over a three or four year period. Especially if the Indians that helped TJB mine the gold were the same Indians that James Pursley traveled with, this number was in the thousands. Even if TJB had help of a few hundred Indians that would be enough to mine that much gold and even more.

The mines you're referencing were employing around the clock "forced labor" involving hundreds of laborers, with multiple mine shafts. This type of an operation required multiple smelting and crushing operations, i.e., you can't smelt silver and gold together and then pour them into individuals bars without separating those two metals, so now you have two huge processes, not just one. You're talking hundreds of laborers and multiple operations. And then, upon transporting the two deposits, "all of the party went half-way," so who was supervising/protecting these huge multiple operations in their long absence? The Indians who were forced/volunteered to labor in them?

 

[ECS]

"IF" the amount of the deposits are accurate, and "if" this was purified metal, then this had to be either A) "accumulated" wealth over a long period of time, or B) wealth acquire from an extremely large and rich operation.

Ore would have to be mined, crushed, smelted & separated, etc. Just way too much gold and silver in the BP for thirty men to have achieved even with the aid of some Indians.

A secret mining,crushing,high temperature smelting/roasting operation would attract attention,and not remain a secret for long in Spanish held territory.
Also,would not this process leave behind large piles of slag,like the ones in Leadville,Co that are still there today?

 

[bigscoop]

If the deposit amounts had been much smaller then the time table of the journey out and back again still doesn't work out. In the event that the deposits were ore then I hardly believe that these men were planning on conducting a secret smelting operation in Bedford County, or anywhere else on the east coast. So all the evidence points to a completely bogus story in regards to the actual source of the deposits, "if" in fact there were actually any real deposits of this nature in the first place. Having said this, I do believe there is a good possibility that deposits did come from the west and given the nature of that wealth and the frail position of the American banks at the time I can see it being hidden in an alternate secure location. However, even so, given the required network to generate that much wealth and pull it all off - I don't see that wealth still existing today. I'd say there's very little chance of that.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Last Post on this forum or any other forum. Good Luck to all.

Why...?

 

[bigscoop]

Last Post on this forum or any other forum. Good Luck to all.

Franklin, the best tool we have in establishing any theory are these forums. In these forums a theory's weaknesses will get quickly exposed which is what we want and require if we desire to build a truly strong possibility. ECS, Lastleg, You, Reb, and many others have provided Tat & myself with a lot of feedback, both positive and negative, that has help guide us in our continued search for the truth. When obvious weaknesses in any theory are pointed out we simply have to pause, take note of those weaknesses, and then look for other possible solutions. So these forums are a powerful resource/tool.

 

[tat2guy]

Franklin I'm sad to see you go. Thanks for your insight and help the last few years. Good luck in your endevours.

HH Tat

 

[lastleg]

Franklin had sources I cannot find in the annals of western mining history. If you are entertaining
the possibility of native gold and silver occurring and processed in SW Colorado in that time period
please check for factual records before making embarrassing claims. James found only native gold
nuggets so it had to come from either the Platte or Arkansas Rivers or tributaries of same. The
famous San Juan deposits were locked in telluride minerals that required stamp mills and European
methods which the buffalo hunters were extremely difficient either materially or knowledgeable.

bigscoop suggests another source of wealth coming from west to east however is short of prospects
for logical consideration. While hinting of superpower treasury downloads I can find no trace of such
transfers unless he has been under the influence of shadowy Jesuit legends. There was one absurd
legend titled Tres Piedras that concerns a villainous French preist supposedly hauling Taos dore
bars to the Oklahoma panhandle before stalling out for lack of common sense. Nevertheless a
hoard of searchers still bedevil local ranchers and sometimes trespass in lapses of civility.

While greed usually trumps a casual or cursory research effort this particular legend survives
minus the oxygen to infuse it.

 

[bigscoop]

"bigscoop suggests another source of wealth coming from west to east however is short of prospects
for logical consideration. While hinting of superpower treasury downloads I can find no trace of such
transfers unless he has been under the influence of shadowy Jesuit legends."

First, you've evidently not searched the same records, accounts, communications, and documents that we have searched, and are still actively searching, so it's understandable that you've not entertained these same suggested solutions.

At present, we know of two large collections of wealth that existed in the west during the period of the Beale pamphlet, and possibly even a third, which are still researching. Ironically, all three of these collections of wealth were connected to the same venture and people, the "exact" nature and terms of that venture still not fully understood, as it might very well never be. Of these two collections of wealth we do know that by late 1819 the first one no longer existed in the west, as to where it may have been moved to we have located no certain documentation, all we do know about this first collection of wealth is that date of its last existence in the west corresponds with the date of the first Beale deposit.

As for the second collection of wealth we know that it was also removed from the west towards the east in the same mysterious manner as the first collection of wealth, the date of this relocation also corresponding with the date of the second Beale deposit.

As for that possible third collection of wealth, which actually may have been the original source of the other two previously mentioned, we have yet to confirm that this deposit/transfer was actually made into the Americas just as it was openly debated, "in existing records."

As for the sources of this information, one of them was "ify" in the beginning but it has now been investigated and likewise proven to be solid. As for the other source, the existing records themselves leave no doubt as to their reliability and accuracy.

The whole idea/notion of "mining" needs to be erased and one needs to turn their full attention and resources to the political climate of the era, both in the US and abroad. The entire scope of the research avenues that Tat and myself and others have taken are far-far different then the concept of mining and simple adventure. "HUGE money requires HUGE resources and HUGE causes." Find those causes, find the potential resources, and you're likely to find the possible sources behind that huge money.

 

[ECS]

Now a "WHY"... Why ONLY in Lynchburg, VIRGINIA...?

...and why in 1885?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

...and why in 1885?

1885...? TWENTY years after the surrender of the SOUTH, CONFEDERATE WAR; FIRST deposit in 1863, when RM "told" the author about THE SECRET. SECOND & FINAL deposit after Richmond, Va. "fell"; Lynchburg, Va. became STATE capital of VIRGINIA for FOUR days; PLENTY of time to bury Richmond, Va. "STORES". Confederate Treasure Coverup
AND! 1885; the AUTHOR of the BEALE PAPERS died... NO longer necessary to KEEP THE SECRET! Coffee...?

 

[bigscoop]

...and why in 1885?

Here's a possible solution:

In 1822 Morriss was handed a "trust" of sorts, so in essence he became the executor of a secret trust with certain terms attached to carrying out of that trust. In the event that he could no longer manage that trust he was to pass this duty on to someone else who was capable, which he eventually does.

In 1862 Morriss passes this secret trust onto the unknown author and in doing so there are certain terms attached to this arrangement as well, one of those terms being a period of twenty years, this new arrangement thus ending in 1882, at which point the new executor (unknown author) was to distribute the wealth as agreed.

So in 1882 a lawyer in Richmond believes that he has been charged with the duty of executing a wealthy secret trust that he can't even find, nor can he find the heirs of that trust. So what to do? Hence - three years later you have the Beale pamphlet in 1885.

Now I know all of this sounds a bit crazy, and is a bit crazy, but is it really a condition that's too bazaar to exist? The evidence suggest otherwise.

We have to remember that Morriss was simply a third party safety valve in the event that something went terribly wrong with whatever plan/agreement that was already in place. Since Morriss was never contacted in regards to the box in his possession by the time the original 10 year term had expired we can only assume that his services were never required and that the original plan had ended successfully, thus the services of Morriss were never required and he was simply left out in the cold. Remember, Morriss was only promised a share "if" his future services were required, which they apparently were not.

Now many years later Morriss still believes that he is in charge of something that no longer exist and in living up to his previous promise he passes this charge onto someone else, this new executor being our unknown author, and he too firmly believes that there is actually something left to be administered. So, at the end of these new terms, in 1882, we have yet another individual firmly believing in something that no longer exist, "hidden wealth" if only he can find it just as he has been charged.

Now all of this sounds too crazy, I know, but in 1882 there exist a suspicious exchange of letters between an aging attorney and another individual that may actually prove otherwise. This attorney would have been intimate with many of the people Tat and I have already discussed in these forums. This is why those private collections become so important when conducting research, because nothing is truly ever a secret if it really existed among men.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Here's a possible solution:

In 1822 Morriss was handed a "trust" of sorts, so in essence he became the executor of a secret trust with certain terms attached to carrying out of that trust. In the event that he could no longer manage that trust he was to pass this duty on to someone else who was capable, which he eventually does.

In 1862 Morriss passes this secret trust onto the unknown author and in doing so there are certain terms attached to this arrangement as well, one of those terms being a period of twenty years, this new arrangement thus ending in 1882, at which point the new executor (unknown author) was to distribute the wealth as agreed.

So in 1882 a lawyer in Richmond believes that he has been charged with the duty of executing a wealthy secret trust that he can't even find, nor can he find the heirs of that trust. So what to do? Hence - three years later you have the Beale pamphlet in 1885.

Now I know all of this sounds a bit crazy, and is a bit crazy, but is it really a condition that's too bazaar to exist? The evidence suggest otherwise.

We have to remember that Morriss was simply a third party safety valve in the event that something went terribly wrong with whatever plan/agreement that was already in place. Since Morriss was never contacted in regards to the box in his possession by the time the original 10 year term had expired we can only assume that his services were never required and that the original plan had ended successfully, thus the services of Morriss were never required and he was simply left out in the cold. Remember, Morriss was only promised a share "if" his future services were required, which they apparently were not.

Now many years later Morriss still believes that he is in charge of something that no longer exist and in living up to his previous promise he passes this charge onto someone else, this new executor being our unknown author, and he too firmly believes that there is actually something left to be administered. So, at the end of these new terms, in 1882, we have yet another individual firmly believing in something that no longer exist, "hidden wealth" if only he can find it just as he has been charged.

Now all of this sounds too crazy, I know, but in 1882 there exist a suspicious exchange of letters between an aging attorney and another individual that may actually prove otherwise. This attorney would have been intimate with many of the people Tat and I have already discussed in these forums. This is why those private collections become so important when conducting research, because nothing is truly ever a secret if it really existed among men.

Confederate War started in 1861... SECOND year of the CONFEDERATE WAR was 1863; SAME year that "RM" died... NO longer useful for the "Beale" Story. Hart Papers has good info about the TRUE Treasure... BUT! Forget the weird medium/psychic "thingie"; was just a TREND, then. I DO believe it indicate the WHAT & WHERE... Newton Hazlewood is KEY! He was SGT. Newton Hazlewood during the CONFEDERATE WAR; MAYBE, even CSA Secret Service!

 

[bigscoop]

Confederate War started in 1861... SECOND year of the CONFEDERATE WAR was 1863; SAME year that "RM" died... NO longer useful for the "Beale" Story. Hart Papers has good info about the TRUE Treasure... BUT! Forget the weird medium/psychic "thingie"; was just a TREND, then. I DO believe it indicate the WHAT & WHERE... Newton Hazlewood is KEY! He was SGT. Newton Hazlewood during the CONFEDERATE WAR; MAYBE, even CSA Secret Service!

Maybe, but I just don't think so Reb. There's just no evidence anywhere that Hazlewood knew anything at all other then the very basics. From here he just becomes a favored figure in some of the local he-said-she-said type stuff. The Hart information is interesting but not all that reliable because a great deal of it comes from this same he-said-she-said type thing. In other words, there's no other evidence to support any of it and with something this potentially wealthy and important that evidence should be there, somewhere. Just far too many people required and too many arrangements to be made for what you're suggesting and that evidence to not show up somewhere, especially with so many capeable people looking.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Maybe, but I just don't think so Reb. There's just no evidence anywhere that Hazlewood knew anything at all other then the very basics. From here he just becomes a favored figure in some of the local he-said-she-said type stuff. The Hart information is interesting but not all that reliable because a great deal of it comes from this same he-said-she-said type thing. In other words, there's no other evidence to support any of it and with something this potentially wealthy and important that evidence should be there, somewhere. Just far too many people required and too many arrangements to be made for what you're suggesting and that evidence to not show up somewhere, especially with so many capeable people looking.

LOL! Newton Hazlewood was THE ONE who gave the THREE pages of FIGURES (NUMBERS?) to Clayton Hart to "copy"; Clayton changed the FIGURES/NUMBERS "slightly". THEN, he & his brother, George, became "Beale" Treasure hunters, interviewing J.B. Ward & his son about the "Beale" Story; since the Hart Bros. were from Roanoke, Va., the original papers of FIGURES/NUMBERS may be in the VIRGINIA ROOM of the Roanoke, Va. Library on Elm Street... dunno. AND THAT! Is MORE info than YOU have!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Here's a possible solution:

In 1822 Morriss was handed a "trust" of sorts, so in essence he became the executor of a secret trust with certain terms attached to carrying out of that trust. In the event that he could no longer manage that trust he was to pass this duty on to someone else who was capable, which he eventually does.

In 1862 Morriss passes this secret trust onto the unknown author and in doing so there are certain terms attached to this arrangement as well, one of those terms being a period of twenty years, this new arrangement thus ending in 1882, at which point the new executor (unknown author) was to distribute the wealth as agreed.

So in 1882 a lawyer in Richmond believes that he has been charged with the duty of executing a wealthy secret trust that he can't even find, nor can he find the heirs of that trust. So what to do? Hence - three years later you have the Beale pamphlet in 1885.

Now I know all of this sounds a bit crazy, and is a bit crazy, but is it really a condition that's too bazaar to exist? The evidence suggest otherwise.

We have to remember that Morriss was simply a third party safety valve in the event that something went terribly wrong with whatever plan/agreement that was already in place. Since Morriss was never contacted in regards to the box in his possession by the time the original 10 year term had expired we can only assume that his services were never required and that the original plan had ended successfully, thus the services of Morriss were never required and he was simply left out in the cold. Remember, Morriss was only promised a share "if" his future services were required, which they apparently were not.

Now many years later Morriss still believes that he is in charge of something that no longer exist and in living up to his previous promise he passes this charge onto someone else, this new executor being our unknown author, and he too firmly believes that there is actually something left to be administered. So, at the end of these new terms, in 1882, we have yet another individual firmly believing in something that no longer exist, "hidden wealth" if only he can find it just as he has been charged.

Now all of this sounds too crazy, I know, but in 1882 there exist a suspicious exchange of letters between an aging attorney and another individual that may actually prove otherwise. This attorney would have been intimate with many of the people Tat and I have already discussed in these forums. This is why those private collections become so important when conducting research, because nothing is truly ever a secret if it really existed among men.

And that "aging attorney" was...?

 

[lastleg]

Some attorneys don't show their age for decades and WHAM ! !