Legend of the Stone Maps

[Hal Croves]

Have to agree with Frank on this one.
I visited the museum in October of 2011, after I left the Dons camp. My 1st. impression of the stones were that they were too clean, the engravings too perfect and clean, and they didn't look like they were ever buried in the ground for any length of time.
I realize that the originals have been cleaned probably a few times, and lighting affects the appearance, but these just didn't look right.
As previously stated, Mike (Gollum) took some amazing photos of them under different lighting conditions, even blacklight, with a microscope attached to the camera. The ones he examined and photographed were the originals brought out of the back room, which they do on rare occasions for a fee.

After seeing Video 6, do you still feel the same way about the stones on display at the SMM?
What about the back room and buying a sneak preview of the originals? Did V6 resolve that idea to your satisfaction?

 

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[txtea]

After seeing Video 6, do you still feel the same way about the stones on display at the SMM?
What about the back room and buying a sneak preview of the originals? Did V6 resolve that idea to your satisfaction?

Actually haven't had a chance to watch #6 yet.
Currently down in the Big Bend area around Terlingua. Wi-fi is very spotty down here...a video would take all day to watch. Will be going home this weekend and will watch it then.
Viva Terlingua!

 

[Hal Croves]

Gary as I'm sure you know everyone has copies of the maps. Hell you can go to the Bluebird and they are in the window. The museum has a one sided travel set that I've seen on display at events. Recently at the Mesa Rock a Show Flagg had a display and sale. I asked about the Museum displays. I received a sharp comment. We don't know what is going on there!

And what about now?
Any lingering questions?

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

And what about now?
Any lingering questions?

They seem to be congenial people you ought to call them and ask, let us know what you find out.

 

[Hal Croves]

This thread is for discussions on known facts related to the stone maps. Facts not opinions. I'll start it off. In a letter dated 8-3-62 from Robert Tumlinson to Bob Garman Robert states he found 5 stone map slabs. We're is the fifth stone and what is engraved on it?
View attachment 1155887

Frank,
I hope this helps you with your research.
Travis had a cousin that also came to Phoenix looking for something. He was there at least as early as 1917, but he didn't file his first claim in Maricopa County until the mid 1930's. I can't say just how much was recovered but he seems to have had some luck in the Vulture mining district.

La Chiripa 1,2,3 - 1935
Robert E. Lee. - 1937
Lucky Strike 1,2,3 - 1939
Gold Chief 1,2 - 1939
Cow Trail 1,2 - 1939

Travis, like his cousin before him, came to the area for a reason.

 

[gollum]

Frank,

You know I luv'ya babe, but you are absolutely mistaken on this one. I contacted both Phil Reinhart and and Greg Davis. Both have been with the Museum for many years, and both are in the perfect positions to answer the question. This is what I was told via email:

My Email:

Good Afternoon,

Hope this finds you well and happy!


Someone just told me that the Stone Maps on display at the SMHS Museum are not the originals any more. Is that true?


Thanks in advance - Mike

Answer:

Good afternoon Mike: I do not know who told you that but it is not true. The original Stone Maps received by us from the Flagg Foundation are still on display at the Museum.

If Greg Davis says that to me in no uncertain terms and without any equivocation, it would take some serious evidence to convince me otherwise!

I was also there in June of 2010. I got there long before opening. Greg and Phil kindly allowed me some private time with all the Stone Maps before we took them out to publicly display them. I got a closer look at them than the DAI (Desert Archaeology Inc) People did for the Arizona Highways Article. The people at DAI only did a cursory examination of the Stone Maps. I spoke with two of the people that examined them, and was told that they only spent a couple of hours with them. I was allowed to use a digital microscope and photograph them under different types of lights I brought (Blue-White LED, Blacklight, and InfraRed).




In the time I spent with the Stone Maps, I could find ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that the DAI Folks said was modern that could not easily be done just as well with hand tools. For example: They say the start spot in the drill hole is indicative of an electric drill. REALLY? Using a hand drill, I would drill a small hole and enlarge it. My starting dimple would probably look just like the ones in my pics.



They also said that the surfaces were machine sanded smooth. Not so much! Beginning in ancient times, all they would do is get two slabs fairly even. Place some fine sand between the slabs, and slide them back and forth to smooth the surfaces. Finer sand for a smoother surface. I saw absolutely no evidence of machine sanding. When I asked the DAI Folks I spoke to about my findings, all they could offer was that it was possible that I was correct, but their opinion was their opinion. Agree to disagree.

Superdad,

You are coming to an awful lot of specific conclusions based on very circumstantial evidence. What I mean is that you speak in absolutes about your theory, when there is nothing definite to back up those assertions.

I don't say you are wrong. Your theories are just as valid as anybody else's, since nobody has gotten wealthy (to my knowledge) from their decryptions of the Stone Maps. I just have a problem with people saying they know 100% that everybody else is wrong, and you have gotten it right with no possibility of error.

Also, why go with Pedro Peralta? The name "MIGUEL" is also chiseled into the top of the Horse/Priest Stone:



Mike

 

[sgtfda]

Hi Mike
You better get a XXXL pair of depends. Very soon your going to need it.

 

[gollum]

Hi Mike
You better get a XXXL pair of depends. Very soon your going to need it.

You better call me about that! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Hal,

Joseph West Tumlinson was also Sheriff here in Cotulla, then the County Judge. I did a lot of fishing by the old railroad bridge in my younger years.

Homar

 

[gollum]

Frank,

As has been stated and restated:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!"

I trust that anything you tell me, you believe to be true. We just don't always see eye to eye on everything dealing with the Stone Maps.

See, like I will have to educate Ryan about are some of the known history of the Stone Maps. There are a couple of things that keep getting lost. The main one is:

State of Arizona Attorney General Bob Corbin,

This story is one of the very few in dealing with Stone Maps and LDM History that we have a living first hand version of the story. Bob says that sometime in the mid-1960s, when he was a County Attorney, a friend of his in the US Attorney's Office told him that an FBI Agent from the FBI Laboratory in Washington DC was in their offices, and knowing Bob's penchant for the LDM and Lost Treasures, asked if he wanted to see the stone maps and talk to the FBI Agent. He said YES! He wasn't given any details as to why the FBI had the Stone Maps, but he was told by the FBI Agent that after examination at the FBI Lab in DC, it was the opinion of the FBI that the Stone Maps were "AT LEAST 100 YEARS OLD!".

Be back in a bit.

Mike



Mike

 

[RG1976]

Frank,

As has been stated and restated:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!"

I trust that anything you tell me, you believe to be true. We just don't always see eye to eye on everything dealing with the Stone Maps.

See, like I will have to educate Ryan about are some of the known history of the Stone Maps. There are a couple of things that keep getting lost. The main one is:

State of Arizona Attorney General Bob Corbin,

This story is one of the very few in dealing with Stone Maps and LDM History that we have a living first hand version of the story. Bob says that sometime in the mid-1960s, when he was a County Attorney, a friend of his in the US Attorney's Office told him that an FBI Agent from the FBI Laboratory in Washington DC was in their offices, and knowing Bob's penchant for the LDM and Lost Treasures, asked if he wanted to see the stone maps and talk to the FBI Agent. He said YES! He wasn't given any details as to why the FBI had the Stone Maps, but he was told by the FBI Agent that after examination at the FBI Lab in DC, it was the opinion of the FBI that the Stone Maps were "AT LEAST 100 YEARS OLD!".

Be back in a bit.

Mike



Mike

I hope this won't include education on how much oil changes are on a v12 Benz - because we both know how that ended up

I don't have much to comment on the stone maps or the tumlinsons outside of what I already have.

As to bob Corbin - don't forget to tell folks that Corbin also believed the maps were a hoax / fake. (As told to our own CactusJumper)

I do hope you sent the Tumlinson / Jones family a condolence card after Janie's fairly recent passing. So sad.

Glad to see you back, Mike!

Edit - also, what's the deal with the photo you posted a few posts up. Where you are holding the horse stone. You get in a fight with photoshop?

 

[cactusjumper]

Frank,

As has been stated and restated:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!"

I trust that anything you tell me, you believe to be true. We just don't always see eye to eye on everything dealing with the Stone Maps.

See, like I will have to educate Ryan about are some of the known history of the Stone Maps. There are a couple of things that keep getting lost. The main one is:

State of Arizona Attorney General Bob Corbin,

This story is one of the very few in dealing with Stone Maps and LDM History that we have a living first hand version of the story. Bob says that sometime in the mid-1960s, when he was a County Attorney, a friend of his in the US Attorney's Office told him that an FBI Agent from the FBI Laboratory in Washington DC was in their offices, and knowing Bob's penchant for the LDM and Lost Treasures, asked if he wanted to see the stone maps and talk to the FBI Agent. He said YES! He wasn't given any details as to why the FBI had the Stone Maps, but he was told by the FBI Agent that after examination at the FBI Lab in DC, it was the opinion of the FBI that the Stone Maps were "AT LEAST 100 YEARS OLD!".

Be back in a bit.

Mike



Mike

Mike,

The underlined portion of your quote, is (kinda) not true. Bob does not know if the FBI ever examined the Stone Maps. He and I have spoken many times about that event.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Also, why go with Pedro Peralta? The name "MIGUEL" is also chiseled into the top of the Horse/Priest Stone:

View attachment 1180749

Mike

Mike,
I have to say that this is my favorite photo. Its an impossible shot while the stones are on display.

 

[DiggerGal]

What is sad is your use of their loss, publicly.


Anyway, welcome back Mike.

Hal,

Death records are public knowledge. How is it a use of loss? I'm confused.

 

[RG1976]

Given that Mike earned a relationship of trust with Janie - and one of the few that would have that rare opportunity - it would be completely valid to show my respect to him and his relationship with her in the time of her passing.

Stop being so negative all the time - please!

 

[DiggerGal]

Why not just post the death record as a matter of fact?
Why would anyone need to remind Mike to send condolences?
"I do hope"? Is that sincerity?
If you are unable to see the implication, you may be incapable of impartiality.
Poor taste was my point.

Mike may have a different take on things.
I hope that he does.

Lets keep it on track.

You are correct with one line there Hal;

"Lets keep it on track."

And I will add to ask you to please stop detracting from the subject at hand.
Thanks

 

[Hal Croves]

Given that Mike earned a relationship of trust with Janie - and one of the few that would have that rare opportunity - it would be completely valid to show my respect to him and his relationship with her in the time of her passing.

Stop being so negative all the time - please!

In a PM, absolutely.
Openly, it reads like you were reacting defensibly to Mikes post and you shouldn't feel the need to.
I am probably wrong.


Lets move on.

 

[Hal Croves]

You are correct with one line there Hal;

"Lets keep it on track."

And I will add to ask you to please stop detracting from the subject at hand.
Thanks

I guess that wasn't the answer that you were hoping for?

Do you know that this thread jumped about 700 views just since Sunday morning?
Seems like its tracking just fine.

 

[somehiker]

More likely due to a rebroadcast of the "Legends" series on H2 this weekend, than anything within the discussion.

 

[somehiker]

Mike,

The underlined portion of your quote, is (kinda) not true. Bob does not know if the FBI ever examined the Stone Maps. He and I have spoken many times about that event.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe:

What's "kinda not true" about it ?

Bob has very clearly stated in his letter to Greg that this is what he was told by the Deputy US Attorney at their office in Phoenix. That the Attorney General's Office had obtained the stone maps to have them analyzed by the FBI laboratory to see if they were recent fakes. Bob then spoke to the FBI agent, asking him a specific question....."what had they found in analyzing the stone maps"....and the agent replied "that they believed the maps were at least a hundred years old".

I read that as meaning the FBI HAD examined the maps, and that "they" (FBI) had come to a determination (belief) re: the minimum age of the maps.
You may of course, read and comprehend it differently.

Mike:

You had sent off an FOI request some time ago.....any luck with that ?

As it stands, the FBI's opinion does not make the maps "genuine". Nor does it challenge Bob's opinion of the stones as fake.
But it does eliminate Travis and many others whose names have been floated by the rumor mill as being responsible for the stones.

Regards:SH.