LDM, OZ, & CALALUS

[cactusjumper]

Joe

From what you can see , the carving picture has some difference with the Diplodocus .
IMO , is what they believed would be if the Dinosaur mountain was a reptile . I believe if the author knew about the Diplodocus , he never put a forked tongue in his mouth .

And continue , is the reptile a clue to the gold ? Shows with his orientation the way ?

Marius,

I see. So in your opinion, the picture on the sword, could be something other than a Diplodocus? The fact that the, less than genius, who created the artifacts, drew the Diplodocus with a forked tongue means he could not have been trying to draw one.

Must be so.

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[somehiker]

Marius:

I could be wrong of course, but the way I understand it, what you are implying is that the artist made the "lizard" to look like Dinosaur Mountain.
Because that's where the Rhodians hid their gold ?

 

[Springfield]

... In case you are wondering, the Diplodocus went extinct around 150 million years ago, give or take 10 million years...

What a coincidence - I happen to be reading Exploration Fawcett, the edited personal notes from Col Percy Fawcett's exploration and mapping expeditions in the unexplored jungles of Brazil, Peru and Bolivia, 1906-1925. As you know, Fawcett, a meticulous observer of facts, not only killed and measured a 62-foot long Anaconda on the Rio Abuna in 1907, but also later reported what he identified as a Diplodocus in the Beni swamps of Madre de Dios, having observed the living animal and its three-toed tracks. Was Fawcett just a kook wandering in the jungle? No, he was a British army officer, professional surveyor, cartographer and Fellow of the Royal Geographic Society, whose job it was to establish the legal boundaries between the three countries in the Amazon headwaters country. One peek at the exquisite official maps he prepared during this period reveals the work of a very capable hand.

That's not to say Fawcett wasn't trashed by his contemporaries for his surprising claims, but the fact remains he is generally accepted as more than a credible witness. [His obsession with the Lost City of Z and his unexplained disappearance are also ammunition for character assassins, but those topics are best discussed elsewhere]

Of course, the early 20th century existence of Diplodocus (or Apatasaurus) in South America was also attested to other explorers by numerous native witnesses, but since these are merely jungle savages, I guess we can ignore their testimonials. Right, Joe?

Is Diplodocus extinct? Most likely. Was it 150 million years ago, or 100 years ago with the settling of the Amazon headwaters? Damned good question. If the latter, then maybe the Tucson sword image isn't a slam dunk game killer, but a strange anomaly. I've tended to ignore these artifacts in the past, but I'm thinking we don't have a consensus regarding their provenance.

That said, I see nothing to support the Superstition Mountains fairy tales that this forum's Oz advocate has tacked on to the Tucson items.

 

[cactusjumper]

What a coincidence - I happen to be reading Exploration Fawcett, the edited personal notes from Col Percy Fawcett's exploration and mapping expeditions in the unexplored jungles of Brazil, Peru and Bolivia, 1906-1925. As you know, Fawcett, a meticulous observer of facts, not only killed and measured a 62-foot long Anaconda on the Rio Abuna in 1907, but also later reported what he identified as a Diplodocus in the Beni swamps of Madre de Dios, having observed the living animal and its three-toed tracks. Was Fawcett just a kook wandering in the jungle? No, he was a British army officer, professional surveyor, cartographer and Fellow of the Royal Geographic Society, whose job it was to establish the legal boundaries between the three countries in the Amazon headwaters country. One peek at the exquisite official maps he prepared during this period reveals the work of a very capable hand.

That's not to say Fawcett wasn't trashed by his contemporaries for his surprising claims, but the fact remains he is generally accepted as more than a credible witness. [His obsession with the Lost City of Z and his unexplained disappearance are also ammunition for character assassins, but those topics are best discussed elsewhere]

Of course, the early 20th century existence of Diplodocus (or Apatasaurus) in South America was also attested to other explorers by numerous native witnesses, but since these are merely jungle savages, I guess we can ignore their testimonials. Right, Joe?

Is Diplodocus extinct? Most likely. Was it 150 million years ago, or 100 years ago with the settling of the Amazon headwaters? Damned good question. If the latter, then maybe the Tucson sword image isn't a slam dunk game killer, but a strange anomaly. I've tended to ignore these artifacts in the past, but I'm thinking we don't have a consensus regarding their provenance.

That said, I see nothing to support the Superstition Mountains fairy tales that this forum's Oz advocate has tacked on to the Tucson items.

Springfield,

Actually the Diplodocus had five elephant-like toes. I am more than willing to give all peoples folklore a fair shake. However, I don't swallow every tale that comes down the pike........no matter who is doing the telling. I will have to dig out my copy of the Fawcett book.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Markmar wrote

Roy

The same link for your questions about Toltecs presence FAR AWAY from their capital town

http://www.migration-diffusion.info/...p?id=98&file=1

PS

And for your statement :

IF the Byzantines were at peace with the Arabs, and simply paid a toll to pass the straits of Gibraltar - wouldn't there be records of this event? The Arabs would certainly notice a fleet of Byzantine settlers and soldiers passing their patrols.
Have anyone searched the Arabs records for that passage event ? I don't think so . Is more relaxed to call the artifacts fake .

Thanks for the link; however that particular article has a number of factual errors in it. For example, it states that the Toltecs wrote the Popol Vuh, which is a Mayan text. The Toltecs had no written language.

　
I have done some research into Arab history, looking for ANY voyages to America, and have found nothing Not all of the Arab books have been translated into English however, so it is possible that some record could exist, which I would think that the supporters of the Calalus artifacts being genuine, would want to find in order to validate the story. In particular I would have expected prof. Covey would have found such texts and put them forward.


If that is NOT supposed to be a dinosaur on that artifact, what exactly is it supposed to be? If it is supposed to be a lizard with a forked tongue, what species of lizard, exactly? Thank you in advance.

Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Springfield,

Actually the Diplodocus had five elephant-like toes. I am more than willing to give all peoples folklore a fair shake. However, I don't swallow every tale that comes down the pike........no matter who is doing the telling. I will have to dig out my copy of the Fawcett book.

Take care,

Joe

And how many toes did the sword animal have? Ha ha. The point is that even today - hell, even in the USA - we have sightings of 'impossible' animal life. I and a number of other generally sober, well-qualified witnesses, for example, can assure you that the so called 'thunderbird' - an unidentified species with an approximately 25-foot wingspan - does indeed frequent at least two ranges in southwest New Mexico. I certainly don't expect you to accept this fact, but neither would your denial have any bearing on the truth of the matter. I can give you more anecdotal cryptozoological reports - sorry, no chupacabres - but that's another topic for elsewhere.

Therefore, I personally find it impossible to dismiss the image on that Tucson sword out of hand. That doesn't verify the discovery and veracity of the artifacts, of course, but it also doesn't automatically negate them either. Your results may vary.

 

[markmar]

Marius:

I could be wrong of course, but the way I understand it, what you are implying is that the artist made the "lizard" to look like Dinosaur Mountain.
Because that's where the Rhodians hid their gold ?

Wayne

The author made the Dinosaur mountain to looks like a lizard for some reason . I believe they would not been so far from the gold source and deposit .

 

[markmar]

Markmar wrote


Thanks for the link; however that particular article has a number of factual errors in it. For example, it states that the Toltecs wrote the Popol Vuh, which is a Mayan text. The Toltecs had no written language.

　
I have done some research into Arab history, looking for ANY voyages to America, and have found nothing Not all of the Arab books have been translated into English however, so it is possible that some record could exist, which I would think that the supporters of the Calalus artifacts being genuine, would want to find in order to validate the story. In particular I would have expected prof. Covey would have found such texts and put them forward.


If that is NOT supposed to be a dinosaur on that artifact, what exactly is it supposed to be? If it is supposed to be a lizard with a forked tongue, what species of lizard, exactly? Thank you in advance.

Oroblanco

Roy

IS NOT a lizard speciment . Is the Dinosaur Mountain " alive " from an east view .

 

[markmar]

Marius,

I see. So in your opinion, the picture on the sword, could be something other than a Diplodocus? The fact that the, less than genius, who created the artifacts, drew the Diplodocus with a forked tongue means he could not have been trying to draw one.

Must be so.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe

I am glad to see how your logic defeats your standards .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

I am glad to see how your logic defeats your standards .

Marius,

Not sure what you are trying to say there.

Your experience and knowledge of the Superstitions, the Tucson artifacts and all aspects of the legends of the Southwest have far outstripped my limited resources. Sorry I have set up so many roadblocks to your giving us the benefits of your knowledge.

Please continue,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Cliffy]

I want to hear more about snaketown?
cliffy

 

[somehiker]

You can start here........75th Anniversary of Snaketown Excavations - Research Highlights - Arizona State Museum

also.......

 

[Cliffy]

thank you

 

[Cliffy]

I really enjoyed my digs, thank you.

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy

IS NOT a lizard speciment . Is the Dinosaur Mountain " alive " from an east view .

Marius - you have just completed a full circular argument.

You say that the image on the Calalus sword is NOT a dinosaur, and NOT a lizard, it is made to look like Dinosaur mountain;

Then you say that they made Dinosaur mountain to look like the image! An image of WHAT? What is that drawing (engraving) supposed to be of, as a LIVING animal? Since you have already ruled out dinosaurs and lizards, what else is that "living" animal supposed to be - a bird, a fish, a horse..? Thank you in advance.

I would think that "forked tongue" on the sword may be arguable, it may not have been originally part of the drawing; it is also quite possible that the person carving the image, thought that dinosaurs were big lizards, as many people formerly believed and some still do, so assumed that a dinosaur would have a forked tongue like a lizard.

As to the idea that this dinosaur carving is some kind of evidence of surviving prehistoric animals, isn't that reaching a bit? Couldn't the image be done not to show a living animal the artist saw and knew, but something added for decorative effect? Even the Thunderbird legend, which I am fairly convinced is referring to a real bird that probably does still exist in very small numbers, is most likely a surviving descendent of a member of the Teratorn family and not Pterodactyls. The huge predatory Teratorn survived until the end of the last Ice Age, while the pterodactyls died out millions of years ago.

Oroblanco

 

[Somero]

 

[markmar]

Oroblanco wrote

" Then you say that they made Dinosaur mountain to look like the image! An image of WHAT? "

An image of what you can see . I leave to your intuition to name this reptile .

 

[somehiker]

I'd call him DINO.....but that's already taken.
If Dinosaur Mtn. looks like any kind of dead reptile, maybe it's a

Miragaia longicollum​

....

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/126/2/a/miragaia_by_fafnirx-d4yov6i.png

-did they use lead picks and shovels to carve this thing Marius ?
That mountain is over a kilometer long....from head to tail.

One of the biggest problems I have with this whole fantasy, is the lack of copper, bronze, or iron artifacts, at the lime kiln site or anywhere else.
Not to mention the wheel, which could have been used for hand carts, assuming they had no draft animals. Are we to believe these people built ships and supplied them for a voyage of several thousand miles to an unknown land, only to forget all of these things ?

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco wrote <earlier>

" Then you say that they made Dinosaur mountain to look like the image! An image of WHAT? "

An image of what you can see . I leave to your intuition to name this reptile .

I see; then Dinosaur mountain and the image carved onto the Calalus artifact are really showing us this?



Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Oroblanco

　
　

 

[starman 1]

The library of Oz part 1

Gentlemen:

Originally I intended to open three gates to help those who are interested in understanding the Tucson Artifacts. I came to believe the dialogue was getting out of hand and progress was impossible. I have decided to open the third gate. While doing so will be viewed as folly by those who have already made up their minds and prefer to wallow in pseudo-history hopefully these comments will help someone pursue the true legacy of the Tucson Artifacts and the incredible story they tell us.

Briefly in my previous posts the position was established that the scribe who created the artifacts obtained his training in Latin from his exposure to the library of Oz. Granted his efforts were those of an apprentice and given the conditions under which most of the artifacts were created the un-sophisticated language is evidence of their genuine stature instead of fraud. In addition there is a mystery that we will be exploring later that relates to the creation of the artifacts.

The second position regards the word Calalus. Calalus was the name given to what is now known as the America`s by an ancient race. Our people simply piggybacked on the word and named their colony Calalus, and in doing so recognized the role the Ancients played in guiding our forefathers to an unknown land.

The third gate that I will now open will reveal the relationship between the library of Oz and the Tucson Artifacts. It has been stated on several occasions and in several forums that the library is recorded on several of the artifacts. That will now be established.

But first it is important to make a few points by word of introduction to the Artifacts. The Artifacts were never intended to be discovered. Indeed the Artifacts have been covered up on several occasions since their discovery. Also keep in mind the Artifacts in their essence are simply a conversation between generations. That is the artifacts are a holy testament that has full meaning for the survivors of the holocaust. Other folks looking in have a far harder road to travel to understand what is going on.

The phrase, the library of Oz, is used in recent times to designate our most holy place in the Superstitions. It both reveals and conceals. It points to the root symbol of O but covers it within the designation of Oz.

When our people uncovered the library complex directly above the entrance was the symbol O. In the 20th century, as a result of some significant breakthroughs in understanding the language of Atlantis, we came to realize this symbol closely resembles in meaning the Greek symbol for Omega. And this does make a great deal of sense. When these survivors of Atlantis abandoned the complex and went who knows where they sealed up the library and carved their symbol for the end. Their world had ended and the library was a testament to that world and all that led up to its destruction. After the library`s discovery our people added a library which included our history and many, many works from the ancient world.

In addition our people found a map room in the library that led to a separate location near the Colorado River that housed relics from the ancients. A second temple was constructed there. Later a third temple was constructed in the capital of Rhoda that housed additional discoveries made as a result of the map room. Also the map room included incredibly detailed carvings of the animal and plant life that the Ancients encountered in their Calalus.

Now flash forward to the end time of Calalus and the creation of the majority of the Tucson Artifacts. The scribe who created most of the artifacts, we believe, was a surviving apprentice of the library who did the best he could to create a history of the people, a map home to the Superstitions, and images of the symbols and structures that were important to our people. However several of the artifacts were created by a separate scribe. Someone who was far more advanced in their work at the library. Those artifacts are truly beautiful and represent the craftsmanship of an artist. When they were created is an open issue. We will be looking at two artifacts that demonstrate this point.

On artifact 6B is a carving of the temple that was built in the Superstition Mountains that housed the library of the ancients and our history. Directly under the temple carving are the letters T.O.B. Those letters stand for the following: