LDM, OZ, & CALALUS

[starman 1]

The library of Oz part 2

T. Latin=Templum (temple)
0. The symbol from the language of Atlantis
B. Latin: bibliotheca (library)

Additionally the scribe shows a understanding of Hebrew by presenting the letters as he did thus distinguishing T.O.B. from a hebrew word for good. See artifact 20.
Artifact 13 is a fan-shaped Labarum. Chief elements of this artifact are battle axes, a map of the known world of the people, and on both sides of the artifact is a carving of a temple. Directly under each temple are the letters TOL. Those letters stand for the following:

T Latin=Templum(temple)
O The symbol from the language of Atlantis
L Latin: Liber the word for book.

The scribe who used B reflects how an apprentice would reference the library. The use of L reflects a more educated individual who saw the essence of the library as books and in the case of the tablets left by the ancients what better word than books. These temples are three illustrations of the Library of Oz on the Tucson Artifacts. But this is only a way point in the mystery it is not the end. The three temples on the artifacts that housed the holy were located in three different locations. The temple shown on artifact 6 was located in the Superstition Mountains. The temple on artifact 13A is in Rhoda, the temple on artifact 13B was located near the Colorado River. What is in the temple in Rhoda(underground) and what was in the temple near the Colorado River that relates to O is not important for now.

I would now like to turn briefly to the general issue of the nature of authentic history. Authentic history is difficult to define but when you see it you know it is there. An attempt at authentic history in regards to the Tucson Artifacts requires examining the artifacts as a discoverer would attempt to understand a new world. Indeed the world revealed by the artifacts is a new world. Yet at the same time it is a gate to a very ancient world. Look at the artifacts in a sense of wonder and they may reveal their secrets. Several small examples. On artifact 13 is an image of two battle axes. Why is this important? Because the use of battle axes is a very specific indicator of the modern settlers of Calalus. Then explore Tevis`s work, “Arizona in the 50`s”, where Tevis presents a native american oral history about a great army that used “broad-bladed hatchets with deadly effect”. Page 132. In fact the story that is presented in Tevis`s work is similar to much of the history of Calalus that is engraved on the Tucson Artifacts. See pages 132-137. Captain Tevis died in Tucson at the age of 70 in 1905. Next delve into the history of Battle Axe Road and the surrounding area. I would imagine there is a site near by where a horrible battle occurred with one side using battle axes with terrible efficiency.

Other examples of the opportunity for authentic historical effort would be to study why tridents appear on artifacts 7A, 18A, 18B. Explain the significance of Artifact 2 being made from Caliche, and why is the temple base on 6B, “very similar to the temple base found at Mitla, Yucatan”? Laura Ostrander page 109, “The Tucson Artifacts” Thomas Bent. And last but not least a fundamental area of research would be to explain the significance of the letters VOC that exists beneath the world map on artifact 6A.

There is much wisdom in Captain Tevis`s work, and his firsthand accounts point to how little we understand the history of America.

O

Starman

 

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[somehiker]

I see; then Dinosaur mountain and the image carved onto the Calalus artifact are really showing us this?

View attachment 1038998

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Oroblanco

　
　

Here ya go.......The Dinosaur on the Tucson Artifacts - JasonColavito.com



more......http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-america-unearthed-s01e10-the-desert-cross
...........[url]http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/h-p-lovecraft-scott-wolter-and-the-romano-jewish-colony-of-arizona
[/URL]

 

[cactusjumper]

T. Latin=Templum (temple)
0. The symbol from the language of Atlantis
B. Latin: bibliotheca (library)

Additionally the scribe shows a understanding of Hebrew by presenting the letters as he did thus distinguishing T.O.B. from a hebrew word for good. See artifact 20.
Artifact 13 is a fan-shaped Labarum. Chief elements of this artifact are battle axes, a map of the known world of the people, and on both sides of the artifact is a carving of a temple. Directly under each temple are the letters TOL. Those letters stand for the following:

T Latin=Templum(temple)
O The symbol from the language of Atlantis
L Latin: Liber the word for book.

The scribe who used B reflects how an apprentice would reference the library. The use of L reflects a more educated individual who saw the essence of the library as books and in the case of the tablets left by the ancients what better word than books. These temples are three illustrations of the Library of Oz on the Tucson Artifacts. But this is only a way point in the mystery it is not the end. The three temples on the artifacts that housed the holy were located in three different locations. The temple shown on artifact 6 was located in the Superstition Mountains. The temple on artifact 13A is in Rhoda, the temple on artifact 13B was located near the Colorado River. What is in the temple in Rhoda(underground) and what was in the temple near the Colorado River that relates to O is not important for now.

I would now like to turn briefly to the general issue of the nature of authentic history. Authentic history is difficult to define but when you see it you know it is there. An attempt at authentic history in regards to the Tucson Artifacts requires examining the artifacts as a discoverer would attempt to understand a new world. Indeed the world revealed by the artifacts is a new world. Yet at the same time it is a gate to a very ancient world. Look at the artifacts in a sense of wonder and they may reveal their secrets. Several small examples. On artifact 13 is an image of two battle axes. Why is this important? Because the use of battle axes is a very specific indicator of the modern settlers of Calalus. Then explore Tevis`s work, “Arizona in the 50`s”, where Tevis presents a native american oral history about a great army that used “broad-bladed hatchets with deadly effect”. Page 132. In fact the story that is presented in Tevis`s work is similar to much of the history of Calalus that is engraved on the Tucson Artifacts. See pages 132-137. Captain Tevis died in Tucson at the age of 70 in 1905. Next delve into the history of Battle Axe Road and the surrounding area. I would imagine there is a site near by where a horrible battle occurred with one side using battle axes with terrible efficiency.

Other examples of the opportunity for authentic historical effort would be to study why tridents appear on artifacts 7A, 18A, 18B. Explain the significance of Artifact 2 being made from Caliche, and why is the temple base on 6B, “very similar to the temple base found at Mitla, Yucatan”? Laura Ostrander page 109, “The Tucson Artifacts” Thomas Bent. And last but not least a fundamental area of research would be to explain the significance of the letters VOC that exists beneath the world map on artifact 6A.

There is much wisdom in Captain Tevis`s work, and his firsthand accounts point to how little we understand the history of America.

O

Starman

Glad to see you dredging up "Arizona in the '50's" again. The portion that Ben has appropriated to bolster his story of Calalus begins on page 131. This is the passage that reveals the truth of the matter:

"Even though the Apaches numbered twenty to one, the enemy was successful in every engagement, and kept driving them north. Behind this vast army came a great number of people in charge of priests. They settled al;ong all the water-courses, building forts and churches. In the mountains they also built furnaces and melted the rocks like water. Finally, the Apaches had to succumb to the tyranny of the invaders, and they were no better than slaves, for warriors, squaws and children worked for them."

Once again, real history is being woven into the story of Calalus. Anyone who has studied the history of Northern Mexico as well as, the Apache people, will laugh at this brazen theft of their history, to give some familiarity to the story of Calalus.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Not Peralta]

Glad to see you dredging up "Arizona in the '50's" again. The portion that Ben has appropriated to bolster his story of Calalus begins on page 131. This is the passage that reveals the truth of the matter:

"Even though the Apaches numbered twenty to one, the enemy was successful in every engagement, and kept driving them north. Behind this vast army came a great number of people in charge of priests. They settled al;ong all the water-courses, building forts and churches. In the mountains they also built furnaces and melted the rocks like water. Finally, the Apaches had to succumb to the tyranny of the invaders, and they were no better than slaves, for warriors, squaws and children worked for them."

Once again, real history is being woven into the story of Calalus. Anyone who has studied the history of Northern Mexico as well as, the Apache people, will laugh at this brazen theft of their history, to give some familiarity to the story of Calalus.

Joe Ribaudo

then who do you think these people were? since we know the apaches knew who the Spanish were. np

 

[Oroblanco]

Starman1 - I had typed up a response addressing a number of the points you posted, but will refrain from boring everyone for once. Instead, I will address just one point for now.

Starman1 wrote

When our people uncovered the library complex directly above the entrance was the symbol O. In the 20th century, as a result of some significant breakthroughs in understanding the language of Atlantis, we came to realize this symbol closely resembles in meaning the Greek symbol for Omega.

Why would O more closely resemble Omega, than Omicron? For those unfamiliar with the Greek alphabet, below is a comparison; note that the Greek letter Omicron or O, is identical with our Latin O, while Omega is open at the bottom with 'legs". Second point here but related, is that I must ask what led your group to believe the Atlantians language resembled the Greek?

The Greek letter OMICRON, in upper and lower case respectively,

<borrowed from http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Omicron_uc_lc.svg/320px-Omicron_uc_lc.svg.png>

The Greek letter OMEGA in upper and lower case

<borrowed from http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Omega_uc_lc.svg/500px-Omega_uc_lc.svg.png>

Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, at the end of starmans last post notice the "O" above his name,I could be wrong but I think he is finished ,that's why he posted the information for everyone
to read. np

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco, at the end of starmans last post notice the "O" above his name,I could be wrong but I think he is finished ,that's why he posted the information for everyone
to read. np

Well "O" is not OMEGA, so perhaps your impression is mistaken?

O

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, If you read Starman's post closely regarding the "O" above the entrance it states "...this symbol more closely resembles in meaning the Greek symbol for Omega".
Their symbol for "the end". don't drink a lot of waiting for him to post again.np

 

[Somero]

Wow if I wrote all that vague smokescreen kinda information I would be done too. Just sayin if you want to recruit more members you need to be a little more forthcoming with some solid facts.

I find it interesting that no "Trophies" have surfaced anywhere, after all was it not common for Native's to gather up a few keepsakes after defeating an enemy, especially if there were such excellent metal weapons to be had lying about



Somero

 

[cactusjumper]

Eric,

Unfortunately, Calalus is not a story of fact. That's why they need to bring in the work of James H. Tevis,.........Etc. I have to admit, it's pretty amazing to have watched Ben weave this thing out of such thin webs.

Can Toto be far behind?

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Eric,

Unfortunately, Calalus is not a story of fact. That's why they need to bring in the work of James H. Tevis. I have to admit, it's pretty amazing to have watched Ben weave this thing out of such thin webs. Can Toto be far behind?

Take care,

Joe

I am waiting to hear how the Dutch East India company is involved - the VOC alluded to.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

My guess is that the Jesuits had a mission there (pretty sure) and the Burns Ranch was a Visita of the Dutch branch.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Not Peralta]

Roy,

My guess is that the Jesuits had a mission there (pretty sure), and the Burns Ranch was a Visita of the Dutch branch.

Take care,

Joe

why don't you answer my question that I asked, or cant you?

 

[cactusjumper]

then who do you think these people were? since we know the apaches knew who the Spanish were. np

NP,

You need to ask someone who knows what they are talking about. I would suggest someone like Roy, Deducer or Azmula. I know little about that history. You, yourself, are more knowledgeable than I.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

NP,

You need to ask someone who knows what they are talking about. I would suggest someone like Roy, Deducer or Azmula. I know little about that history. You, yourself, are more knowledgeable than I.

Joe Ribaudo

Well Joe you are mistaken there; however the answer is obvious, when the full paragraph is read. <Gracias Joe for posting it, which clarified the issue> It is a memory of the arrival of the Spaniards, and then the priests forming new villages along the rivers. Even Coronado included a mention of encountering Indians whom had bad incidents with forces of Christian Spaniards on slaving missions. Most Spanish armies of the period also had rather large forces of allied Indians, and these Indians were often supplied with weapons like battle axes . For that matter many Spanish soldiers did not have a firearm, or may have had a battle axe in addition to an arquebus for hand-to-hand combat.

Now I can't drag out Diodorus for his history of the Amazons with their famous double-bladed battle axes. Shucky-darn.
Oroblanco

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, well oroblanco you are mistaken ,its not just a paragraph,starman said pages 132 to 137, not just a paragraph and not your opinion of one paragraph, the apaches knew who the Spanish were
and the time period were talking about was then,not a hundred years earlier or later,the apaches knew their enemy's and were they came from. there is no answer because the apaches didn't know who they were.
plus I have not received any good explanation about the trident petroglyphs.which I have been asking about for a long long time and other things that were mentioned in my thread. theres absolutely a history that's been over looked.and theres a history that's being shoved under the table because it doesn't fit in the main stream of what people think we should believe in. which we all know today is wrong.my is ready, I need some. np
ps. remember starman is not claiming there group were the original people of calalus,only a group that took the name. we are all thinking to far in the past on this subject.
and besides its not up to us to judge anyones claim until it is fully investigated. you know kind of like the lost Dutchman or stone tablets or any other story . theres more
to some of these mountains than meets the eye. np

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco, well oroblanco you are mistaken ,its not just a paragraph,starman said pages 132 to 137, not just a paragraph and not your opinion of one paragraph, the apaches knew who the Spanish were
and the time period were talking about was then,not a hundred years earlier or later,the apaches knew their enemy's and were they came from. there is no answer because the apaches didn't know who they were.
plus I have not received any good explanation about the trident petroglyphs.which I have been asking about for a long long time and other things that were mentioned in my thread. theres absolutely a history that's been over looked.and theres a history that's being shoved under the table because it doesn't fit in the main stream of what people think we should believe in. which we all know today is wrong.my is ready, I need some. np
ps. remember starman is not claiming there group were the original people of calalus,only a group that took the name. we are all thinking to far in the past on this subject.
and besides its not up to us to judge anyones claim until it is fully investigated. you know kind of like the lost Dutchman or stone tablets or any other story . theres more
to some of these mountains than meets the eye. np

Of course the Apaches did not know who the first Europeans were, the semi-secret slaving raids were not intended to open up friendly communications. Clearly however it is referring to that period of history, for the "priests" mentioned, and those priests being in charge - just as the padre missionaries were. Or, are you taking the position that the Apaches are the Toltecs descendants? Can you see that might raise even more issues that will not fit the Calalus story?

As to the tridents, I think we already went over this. What do you say these symbols represent?

I must disagree (respectfully) about your contention that it is not up to us to judge anyone's claim(s), I think we all must judge for ourselves. The person making the claim(s) may either present his case or not, and we are free to accept or dismiss it based on our own judgment. As this pertains to the Calalus story, and the extended version presented by Starman1, the biggest objection I have is that it is very much an island of evidence, without any other artifact(s) found elsewhere, and no record or even a legend of some exodus of people (up to thousands of colonists, remember) which WOULD have been noticed even if a "secret" at the time. Secrets come out over the centuries, and navigational/geographic secrets are the worst kept.

Oroblanco

Coffee did you say?

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, if something is written down about history we cannot change it to meet our needs,we can speculate about the meaning,but not change it ,if tevis or the apaches would have known who these
people where they would have said so.and they didn't. this is only a discussion and its not going to get anywhere its just different opinions,I dont remember saying the apaches are Toltec descendants,
Iknow that,so your opinion is the trident petroglyphs were put in places by the ancients traveling through the country. they are also on the Tucson artifacts, along with other things that have been found.
np

 

[Oroblanco]

Not Peralta wrote

Oroblanco, if something is written down about history we cannot change it to meet our needs,we can speculate about the meaning,but not change it ,if tevis or the apaches would have known who these people where they would have said so.and they didn't. this is only a discussion and its not going to get anywhere its just different opinions,I dont remember saying the apaches are Toltec descendants, I know that,so your opinion is the trident petroglyphs were put in places by the ancients traveling through the country. they are also on the Tucson artifacts, along with other things that have been found.

If the Apache "memory" of their unpleasant encounter with battle-axe-wielding enemies that enslaved them, followed by priests that were in command, is supposed to support the story of Calalus, then what significance is it, that Apaches have this memory, if they are not the ferocious Toltecs of Calalus story? The Apaches only entered Arizona around 1600, having apparently formerly been a people of the plains until driven into the desert country. Some of the Apaches did not retreat from the plains and were still there in the 1870s, though now allied with Kiowas, Comanches and southern Cheyennes where Custer met them. Since you imply that the Apaches are not the descendants of the Toltecs - are you saying that the Apaches got the story from the Toltecs of Calalus? Otherwise it is no support for Calalus, that the Apaches remembered this period of history for it very easily will describe the entry of the Spanish into the southwest region even if not named specifically.

You neglected to answer my question so I will repeat it for you - what do YOU say those trident symbols represent? They are a most curious (to put it mildly) symbol to find on supposed Christian relics, being widely considered pagan, even satanic by early Christians and your Calalus colonists would certainly be early Christians if they existed at all.

It is a bit sweeping to say those trident symbols were left by "the ancients" which would include the people most closely associated with the trident, namely Syracusan Greeks of classical antiquity, and also every other ancient people and every time period older than a few centuries to thousands of years. I did not state that all such trident symbols ARE left by visiting Syracusan Greeks either, only that it is possible that could explain them. Some such symbols carved onto rocks are probably the work of bored cowboys.

I would suggest studying up medeival history, but you would not of course; once you read the history of the time period in Europe and the Mediterranean, Calalus becomes very hard to believe. There is evidence of Old World visitors to America long before Columbus, from the Red Ochre people and possible ties between the Solutreans of Europe with the Clovis people in America to the strange "beehive" stone structures underground in New England or the mysterious stone walls of the Berkeley area in California. There are at least a half dozen ancient shipwrecks in the Americas that came from the Mediterranean, over a thousand years before Columbus sailed. In almost all of these cases, there are records in the Old World to match and support the stories, or at the least, a legend as with the Madoc story. Where is the legend of the exodus of a whole colony of Romans, Britons, Jews and Samaritans from Rome except on those Calalus artifacts? Show us the text and I will certainly look at the whole thing much harder.

Better yet, how about a shipwreck dating to say 775 AD? If they (Calalus colonists) sailed up rivers into Arizona, then their ships may still be there along the rivers, hidden in the sand of now mostly dry river beds! The Calalus colonists certainly didn't sail back to Europe or we would have seen the records by now of their return. Heavy iron anchors (or possibly bronze, not sure which was more common in the eighth century AD) should have survived, not to mention the hardware on the ships. Mayhaps the famous legend of a ship stranded in the Salton Sink, is some of the Calalus colonists vessels?! Then there is the Mayo Indian legend of the "Serpent necked canoa" ship with white people that came to live with them - a stray party of Calalus, or perhaps the refugees fleeing the angry revolting Toltec slaves? No?

Good luck and good hunting NP and anyone reading this, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
　

 

[cactusjumper]

The Apache did not enter Sonora until late in the seventeenth century. I don't believe the Calalus era fits in with enslaving the Apache.

Joe Ribaudo