KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas ?

[Texas Jay]

Compare the prices of gold and silver when we first had our little discussion with current prices which are shown on this site's homepage and you will see why I am laughing at you, not with you. I'll tell you how much I bought if you'll honestly tell me how much you've lost on your Wall Street wagers in the past 3 years. Deal?
~Texas Jay

 

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[Shortstack]

Rollie:
Did Texas Jay call your relative a chicken thief or a member of "Bloody Bill" Anderson's guerrilla fighters during the Border Wars and the War of Northern Aggression? There's a whole world of difference in the two. If he were a chicken thief; well, I can understand your consternation. But, if he was a member of Anderson's band..........where's the problem Your stalking of TJ still doesn't make sense. History is history. It cannot be changed. Put your energies into something meaningful.

 

[lastleg]

T Jay:

Y'know I'd clean forgotten that conversation, Jay. You say your metals have
gone up since you bought a little of it? To realize a profit you now have to sell.
My fancy stock mutuals are down but I don't plan to take a loss and sell. As
long as I hold the same number of shares in a no-load mutual fund there is no
loss unless I were to sell at a lower net asset value than when they were bought. Gold and silver do not pay dividends. And to hit big you have to
buy a lot of it when it goes way down. Then you have to either sell high or
store which is dangerous when you brag about having it. Anyway I congratu-
late you for thinking ahead.

 

[Rollie Taylor]

Rollie:
Did Texas Jay call your relative a chicken thief or a member of "Bloody Bill" Anderson's guerrilla fighters during the Border Wars and the War of Northern Aggression? There's a whole world of difference in the two. If he were a chicken thief; well, I can understand your consternation. But, if he was a member of Anderson's band..........where's the problem Your stalking of TJ still doesn't make sense. History is history. It cannot be changed. Put your energies into something meaningful.

Shortstack, thanks for your response. We agree that history is history; what happened, happened, and can't be changed, although Texas Jay persists in trying to do just that. William C. Anderson was not the notorious William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson as Texas Jay claims. The problem - history is history and can't be changed as Texas Jay tries to do, and I will always challenge him when it concerns a member of my extended family. I have no interest in any of Texas Jay's outrageous claims about any other subject. He can post his fantasies anywhere and everywhere about KFC, KGC, KGB, or whatever, and I could care less.

 

[truckinbutch]

Hell , I was a chicken thief , myself , in my formative years . No shame in that . I regale my grandchildren with tales of my adventures so they may shortcut the learning curve to professionalism without becoming shot in their early years like I did .
Painful way to learn how not to steal chickens .

 

[Shortstack]

Chickens are just too NOISY. I lifted a few quiet tomatoes and maybe a watermelon or 2. I guess the liberals' welfare state has just about done away with the necessity of stealing chickens in today's society. Kinda sad really.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

I'm not against Uncle Sam giving a little help in lean times, but when generation after generation have become dependent upon welfare it just starts us on a downward spiral. Why work for a living when you can work the system I guess.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Old men grasping for glory in their final years of life is nothing new. Just look at J. Frank Dalton and his claim of being Jesse James. Overwhelming proof shows otherwise yet there are still a few hanging onto the belief of his claims. Many of these folks are ones who are profiting from books or have staked their reputations and theories on Dalton being JJ.

That an 84 year old man in his final part of life would make a claim to be Bloody Bill doesn't come as a suprise. If the facts prove otherwise then I don't blame family members for trying to correct an untruth. With a little research of census records it seems that the family is right on this one.

Just like with J. Frank you can bring in a boatload of real proof that the claims are untrue and those who believe otherwise will continue to do so. Jay has the right to claim what he will and the family has the right to prove otherwise. I don't see it as stalking or smoke screening it's just the otherside of the side of the story. Since it's an open forum where many things are discussed other than treasure I feel Rollie is welcome to jump in and present facts as well. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Texas Jay]

Okie, now back to the topic that I started which is "KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas". Perhaps you would like to quote yourself, from your own blog, when you made a statement about turtle signs and carvings. That is one of the things that I must say you are correct about. I won't quote you but will give you this opportunity to re-state what turtle signs indicate. Oh yes, this does have a lot to do with the topic.
Let me clear up a few of Rollie's misstatements here. He is not a member of William C. Anderson's "extended family" but I am. My great uncle was Bill and Missouria Anderson's son Storm Anderson and was married to my great aunt Letha Longley Anderson who I knew very well until she died in 1979. I have never said anything demeaning about William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson. I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family. W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records. I don't believe I ever called this man a "chicken thief" but the soldiers who killed him said they did so after his small gang had committed petty theft by stealing something like a hundred dollars and some clothes. ha. So, I've called him a "petty thief" as that is what I consider him.
By the way, I'm still awaiting the results that this gang (represented by Sallie and Rollie here) for the DNA tests that they claimed, last year, would prove that William Columbus Anderson of Salt Creek, Texas was the son of William M. Anderson, Sr. of Stone County Missouri and therefore could not have been "Bloody Bill" Anderson. After bragging that those results were due back "any day", NOTHING was ever said about them again! Why not? I'll let other members draw their own conclusions about that.
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com - here is what William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson told Brownwood Banner-Bulletin staff writer Henry C. Fuller in 1924. Remember, these are not my words. They are the words of the man who they wrongly claim was "related" to them.

 

[Rollie Taylor]

........................
Just like with J. Frank you can bring in a boatload of real proof that the claims are untrue and those who believe otherwise will continue to do so. ...........................

My friend, your description of those who choose to dismiss accepted history and cling to their own fantasy is absolutely correct. Jesse James wins the claimant sweepstakes. More amazing than J. Frank is the fact that 2 if not 3 books have recently been published by the purported great-granddaughter of Jesse W. James. She claims someone other that Jesse James was killed in 1882; that JWJ came to TX in 1871; and lived under the alias of James L. Courtney. She denies the validity of the DNA results from JWJs remains; denies the validity of DNA results showing that her great-grandfather's descendants were related to his brother's descendants; obtains photographs from her relatives and re-identifies them as photos of JWJ. The list is too long for this forum. A real farce. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. Those who are unwilling to relinquish their fantasies derisively refer to others as "traditionalists". Sound familiar?

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Jay, I'm glad you read the blog, but I think that would be Ron you are trying to quote. Turtles mean treasure. I have found more than one and posted pics on-line. I've also found birds, a clover, boots, hearts, triangles, etc. I've posted many, many pics on the Ancient Lost Treasures forum. I'd post them here, but downsizing hundreds of pics so they will load on here would take up time I don't have. If anyone wants to see them just go to ALT and look for pics posted by 2late2dig. I'd put money that not a one of them is KGC as some have suggested, but most are Spanish with a few outlaw signs thrown in for good measure.

I'll let you, Sally, and Rollie hash out who was who. Personally, I don't look up to black flag riders, redlegs, or any other cut throatband as heroes. There were depredations committed by both sides on innocent civilians and that would include being done by Bloody Bill himself.

 

[Texas Jay]

Okie: I don't know why you won't quote your own words for members here so I guess I'll have to when I have the time. To paraphrase, you said "turtles" always lead to treasure. I agree with you that none of them, at least that I am aware of, are KGC and I have never claimed that they were. But I could, if I wanted, show you one in central Texas (either Spanish or Mexican) that proves that the KGC recovered some of these early-day treasures and re-concealed them as their own. Don't hold your breath for this evidence, however, because I most certainly won't be sharing it over the phone or on the Internet.

Here is an article that was shared with our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group, by one of our Moderators, about one of Col. William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson's friends, comrades, and visitors to his Salt Creek, Texas farm.

***
One of the things that has been argued for a very long time is "What did the James Brothers look like?" I column one of the paper that I am posting a link to is a description of Col. Frank James, the well known Missouri outlaw. Not very long at all but gives quite a bit of information for all that. I understand that there is a report in the War of the Rebellion records that says that the KGC gave the title of Colonel to their organizations highest ranking members.

Gayla

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth48723/m1/1/sizes/xl/?q

***




~Texas Jay

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Jay, if you would read my blog again, that is an article posted by Ron that you are trying to give me credit for. You just need to look at the bottom of the article to see who the author is. If this is how you do your research I can see now why I have doubts about your theories. Once again you make a KGC claim but won't show anything to back up the claim.

 

[Rollie Taylor]

Old men grasping for glory in their final years of life is nothing new. Just look at J. Frank Dalton and his claim of being Jesse James. Overwhelming proof shows otherwise yet there are still a few hanging onto the belief of his claims. Many of these folks are ones who are profiting from books or have staked their reputations and theories on Dalton being JJ.

That an 84 year old man in his final part of life would make a claim to be Bloody Bill doesn't come as a suprise. If the facts prove otherwise then I don't blame family members for trying to correct an untruth. With a little research of census records it seems that the family is right on this one.

Just like with J. Frank you can bring in a boatload of real proof that the claims are untrue and those who believe otherwise will continue to do so. Jay has the right to claim what he will and the family has the right to prove otherwise. I don't see it as stalking or smoke screening it's just the otherside of the side of the story. Since it's an open forum where many things are discussed other than treasure I feel Rollie is welcome to jump in and present facts as well. Just my humble opinion.

While William T. “Bloody Bill” Anderson and his younger sister, Josephine (later killed in the collapse of the Union jail in Kansas City), were in the household of their parents, William C. and Martha Anderson, in Breckenridge County, KS, Territory, James N. and William C. Anderson (affectionately known as Uncle Billy) were in the household of their parents, William M. and Jane Scruggs Anderson in Stone County, MO before migrating to Brown County, TX. Fast forward to the 1894 Goodspeed bio of Uncle Billy’s oldest brother, John Henry Anderson, the only male of the family group that supported the Union and remained in Stone County, where the family group of William M. Anderson and Jane Scruggs is identified: “Mr. and Mrs. Anderson were the parents of nine children: John H., subject; Polly, wife of David P. Parker, died at Aurora; Francis M., a farmer of Blanco County, Tex.; David died in Texas; Parsedda Trammell of Texas; Martha Ann, deceased, was the wife of Hiram Leath; James N., of Brown County, Tex.; William C., also of Brown County, Tex.; and Elizabeth, deceased, who was the wife of J. C. C. Simpson.” Who do we find in Brown County, TX, in the 1880 census? None other than William C. Anderson and James N. Anderson. Who do we find in Brown County, TX, in the 1900 census. Why once again William C. Anderson is enumerated in Brown County, just as the Goodspeed bio implied. He and his wife Elizabeth have been married 37 years. His wife Elizabeth testified under oath in a Brown County trial, that she had been married “in about 1860”.
William T. Anderson married Bush Smith in Grayson County per marriage license, and was killed October 26, 1864, near Orrick in Ray County, MO, according to O R 52, and the O R 52 supplement.
What source documents does TJ have to offer to support the questionable reporting of Henry C. Fuller, whose article published in the Abilene paper stated that the Anderson girls were imprisoned in Gallatin rather than Kansas City, a nighttime storm blew the Union jail down, and 2 Anderson girls rather than one were killed?

 

[Texas Jay]

Rollie, I am going to reply to this last message of yours and then I will leave you to blow smoke wherever you want for as long as the moderators of this website allow you to distract from the treasure hunting topics.
The only people who have ever referred to William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson in the derogatory manner as "Uncle Billy" has been you and your Smokescreen Gang. He was called "Uncle Bill", Colonel Bill, and Bloody Bill Anderson by every one of my ancestors and even your Stone County Andersons, never "Uncle Billy". John Henry Anderson was most certainly not William C. Anderson's brother. He was a Yankee in the militia that Bloody Bill Anderson detested and fought against in the War in Missouri. The other Stone County Anderson sons were either draft-dodgers or petty thieves.
Missouria Elizabeth Anderson gave the year of her marriage to Bill Anderson as 1866 according to the 1910 Brown County, Texas census. That being the case, Bill's son Francis Marion Anderson could not have been her own son by Bill Anderson. This is all documented thoroughly in our group's archives and I see no good reason to re-hash it all again on this forum. If members want "proof" of what I've said here, all they need to do is join our group where there is solid proof aplenty. Since I have never seen the Abilene article you refer to, I will not offer any comment or proof as I don't even know whether or not this is just another of the many figments of your imagination. You will now join SWR "in exile" as far as I'm concerned.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Rollie Taylor]

Rollie, I am going to reply to this last message of yours and then I will leave you to blow smoke wherever you want for as long as the moderators of this website allow you to distract from the treasure hunting topics.
The only people who have ever referred to William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson in the derogatory manner as "Uncle Billy" has been you and your Smokescreen Gang. He was called "Uncle Bill", Colonel Bill, and Bloody Bill Anderson by every one of my ancestors and even your Stone County Andersons, never "Uncle Billy". John Henry Anderson was most certainly not William C. Anderson's brother. He was a Yankee in the militia that Bloody Bill Anderson detested and fought against in the War in Missouri. The other Stone County Anderson sons were either draft-dodgers or petty thieves.
Missouria Elizabeth Anderson gave the year of her marriage to Bill Anderson as 1866 according to the 1910 Brown County, Texas census. That being the case, Bill's son Francis Marion Anderson could not have been her own son by Bill Anderson. This is all documented thoroughly in our group's archives and I see no good reason to re-hash it all again on this forum. If members want "proof" of what I've said here, all they need to do is join our group where there is solid proof aplenty. Since I have never seen the Abilene article you refer to, I will not offer any comment or proof as I don't even know whether or not this is just another of the many figments of your imagination. You will now join SWR "in exile" as far as I'm concerned.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

TJ, smart soldiers who run out of ammunition, or never had any, always fall back to a defensive position. You will be perfectly safe discussing this topic on your closed board, where historians, ‘traditionalists”, and dissenters are promptly banned. You sound so authoritative and know so little about my Anderson family. Since my great-great-grandmother, Harriet C. Anderson Clements, was the sister of Martha Elizabeth Anderson Anderson, I am obviously an Anderson descendant.
You contend that Francis Marion Anderson was the son of Bush Smith, wife of William T. Anderson, based solely on the 1910 census which indicates the marriage of William C. and Elizabeth Anderson occurred in 1866, and neglect many other facts to the contrary.
No experienced genealogist relies on a single document. Consider these facts:
The death certificate of Francis Marion Anderson states his birth date was 9 May 1864; his mother was Elizabeth Anderson; father W. C. Anderson; birthplace, Brownwood (not Grayson County).
The 1900 census shows that William C. and Martha Elizabeth, mother of 12 (2 prior to marrying William, 10 with William), had been married 37 years, i. e. about 1863.
The 1910 census shows that Will C. had been married once, Elizabeth, married twice, (mother of 10), married 44 years, i. e. about 1866.
William Anderson paid taxes in Brown County in 1863.
William Anderson owned land on Salt Creek in Brown County in 1863.
The marriage license of Lieut. William T. Anderson and Bush Smith shows the marriage occurred in March, 1864, in Grayson County before Bloody Bill was killed 16 October 1864. In your scenario, Bush Smith was pregnant for only two months before Francis Marion Anderson was born 9 May 1864.
The overwhelming preponderance of the evidence contradicts your assumption that Martha Elizabeth Anderson could not have been the mother of Francis Marion Anderson.
How did the BBAM group that conducted the most comprehensive study of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been attempted or accomplished fail to uncover the article by Henry C. Fuller in the Abilene Reporter News/Western Weekly, Sunday, October 17, 1926? Can you find it now with this clue?
”One of Quantrill’s Bravest Men Lives in Brown County, BY HENRY C. FULLER”
There is nothing to rehash, since hearsay is meaningless when facts tell the true story. William C. Anderson and William T. Anderson were two different men.

 

[PaperTrails]

I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family. W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...o=waro0083;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466

Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
"W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"


Fran Bolton

 

[Shortstack]

I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family. W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...o=waro0083;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466
Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
"W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"
Fran Bolton

Sheesh, Texas Jay. ANOTHER one!!! The Hatfields and McCoys have NOTHING on these folks. LOL

 

[PaperTrails]

I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family. W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...o=waro0083;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466
Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
"W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"
Fran Bolton

Sheesh, Texas Jay. ANOTHER one!!! The Hatfields and McCoys have NOTHING on these folks. LOL

LOL, the Stone Co MO Andersons are a large, well connected family, experienced in locating treasures of another kind...their family history! It is ALL documented in their found treasures----- primary records and documents, buried in archives, libraries, courthouses, wills, death certificates, etc, proving beyond a doubt who the mysterious man in Brownwood TX was. In spite of his assuming he was Bloody Bill.

Fran

 

[Rollie Taylor]

W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...o=waro0083;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466
Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
"W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"
Fran Bolton

LOL, the Stone Co MO Andersons are a large, well connected family, experienced in locating treasures of another kind...their family history! It is ALL documented in their found treasures----- primary records and documents, buried in archives, libraries, courthouses, wills, death certificates, etc, proving beyond a doubt who the mysterious man in Brownwood TX was. In spite of his assuming he was Bloody Bill.

Fran

[/quote]
Fran, never underestimate the psychic powers of Texas Jay.
War of Rebellion records, Series 1 - Volume 41 (Part 1), page 850, September 30, 1864 - Skirmish at Waynesville, Mo. “Sir: I attacked twenty guerrillas to-day in Waynesville; killed 1, SAID BY CITIZENS to be Bill Anderson……..”
October 1, 1864 “I learned to-day that they had collected and LEFT IN A SOUTHERN DIRECTION.”

Since the 1860 census of Missouri shows that 67 men between the ages of 17 and 35 named William Anderson were living in Missouri, only the phenomenal psychic powers of TJ could have positively identified William Anderson of Stone County, one of the 67 William Andersons, as the dead guerrilla, based on the fact the survivors of the skirmish departed in a southern direction.
TJ, the psychic treasure hunter, has an unfair advantage over those relying on metal detectors.