KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas ?

[Shortstack]

I just remembered one more legend about JJ and that big load of booty. I know that you've heard about the cave with the iron door stories. Well, one of the theories is that JJ and Frank hid their goods in a cave and stole a door off of a railroad box car and cemented it into the cave opening, somewhere in the Wichita Mountains. It seems that several people have accidentally found that door. For some reason it's always been while they were lost; either while hunting, hiking, or travelling cross-country by foot. One or two of the folks have been pretty reliable folks as far as truth telling is concerned.

Also, didn't Frank James buy a small ranch in southwester Oklahoma? The story is that he did that so he could keep looking for that big cache that JJ hid. Now, if Frank had been involved with the hiding of his and JJ's big booty load, then, why couldn't he remember where it was? I mean, it wasn't THAT long after the "hide", that he got out of prison and could look. Could the area have changed THAT much?


I wonder if you could use Google to get low enough to look for that rock with the "M".

 

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[Texas Jay]

Yes, Shortstack, I believe Frank James did buy a place in Oklahoma. I'll go through our Bloody Bill group's Messages Archives and try to locate some information about it. Frank James was acquited of the charges against him in 1882 and never did go to prison. Cole Younger, on the other hand, did several years and after his release went into a Wild West Show with Frank James. Here is a quote from Cole Younger's autobiography.

From: "The Story of Cole Younger by Himself"

***

"The 'Cole Younger and Frank James' Historical Wild West Show' is an
effort on the part of two men whose exploits have been more wildly
exaggerated, perhaps, than those of any other men living, to make an
honest living and demonstrate to the people of America that they are
not as black as they have been painted.
There will be nothing in the Wild West show to which an exception can
be taken, and it is my purpose, as a part owner in the show, and I
have put in the contracts with my partners, that no crookedness nor
rowdyism will be permitted by attaches of the show. We will assist
the local authorities, too, in ridding the show of the sort of camp-
followers who frequently make traveling shows the scapegoat for their
misdoings. We propose to have our show efficiently and honestly
policed, to give the people the worth of their money, and to give an
entertainment that will show the frontiersman of my early manhood as
he was.
I had hoped if my pardon had been made unconditional, to earn a
livelihood on the lecture platform. I had prepared a lecture which I
do think would not have harmed anyone, while it might have impressed
a valuable lesson on those who took it to heart.
I give it herewith under the title, 'What My Life Has Taught Me'..."
***

Frank James's ranch was apparently at Fletcher, Oklahoma.

~Texas Jay

 

[Shortstack]

I have read that Frank would go out riding on long trips around the area of OK where his ranch was located. There is a much better chance that he was looking for that last big bank haul he and JJ took. Something like $180 thousand plus. That fits better than his supposedly looking for an iron door thingy.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What if... "the $ 180 thousand plus" WAS behind the "iron door thingy"? Sounds like a STORM DOOR/CELLAR.

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Rebel and Shortstack. From the little I know about this particular treasure hunt, I tend to agree with Shortstack that Frank was most likely looking for the bank loot but the possibility Rebel raises is an interesting one to think about. Does anyone know how much of the $180,000 was in gold?
~Texas Jay

 

[Shortstack]

The iron door cave was in the Wichita Mountains. His rides were supposedly not long enough to have gotten that far away from his ranch area. He was known to ride out in one direction, but return from another; as if he was making large sweeps of the area. Some folks thought that he was looking for some type of landform monument that he needed to locate in order to zero in on a cache spot. I've read various speculator's ideas in treasure magazines. Some of the BETTER articles are found in the Old West and Wild West magazines. The best historical writer that I've found is a man named Glenn Shirley. He has written numerous books and mag articles on western history and was a regular columnist for Old West. Mr. Shirley is the researcher who put the"lie" to the idea that Belle Starr was as Bandit Queen; when, in fact, she was just a camp hanger-on. She was passed around by some of the outlaws she followed. She was thrilled to be around "bad" men and was never a gang leader. The old dime novel writers, reinforced by Hollyweird movies, are responsible for the false history. Mr. Shirley was a serious researcher who went way beyond the normal in finding the facts about his subject. You can "carry it to the bank" on anything he publishes.

 

[truckinbutch]

I agree with you ,Shortstack . Bumpass was usualy more profitable than being a robber . What's a poor robber gonna spend it on once he gets it ?
Jim

 

[Shortstack]

Yeah, and they usually didn't get away with enough to buy anything more than a $2 blanket warmer.
KVM has written that the amount of a robbery went up each time the story was told.

 

[truckinbutch]

Yeah, and they usually didn't get away with enough to buy anything more than a $2 blanket warmer.
KVM has written that the amount of a robbery went up each time the story was told.

Why , Hell Yes ! The robber wanted to be a big man with a big score and the victims wished to appear as having been more affluent than they really were .
Freight companies , on the other hand , tended to downplay their losses so as not to encourage more
robberies .

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hmmmm... the "pic" in post # 12, looks like the "FOUR CORNERS" in SW USA. A "VAULT" in New Mexico, MAYBE a cave in Colorado; NOTHING seen for ARIZONA, nor UTAH... MAYBE, the "clues" for Arizona & Utah, will be found on a "similar" CROSS-like "sign" around there; DUNNO.

 

[Texas Jay]

Hmmmm... the "pic" in post # 12, looks like the "FOUR CORNERS" in SW USA. A "VAULT" in New Mexico, MAYBE a cave in Colorado; NOTHING seen for ARIZONA, nor UTAH... MAYBE, the "clues" for Arizona & Utah, will be found on a "similar" CROSS-like "sign" around there; DUNNO.

Hi Rebel. I discovered this large rock here in central Texas over 20 years ago. Once I learned about the KGC, my partner and I returned to the area several times before we finally relocated it. It took a few more trips and viewing it from different directions to finally get the sun just right on it so that it could be determined to be a very old marker for the "U.S.G.S." - United States Geological Survey. As I am sure you know, the KGC were said to have infiltrated such government positions after the Civil War ended. Acting on some tips from some well-known treasure hunters, we worked out from this rock and located some other carvings and important signs that we had overlooked previously. My partner and I plan to do a lot more work in the area as soon as the weather turns cold and the rattlesnakes and copperheads take a long nap.
~Texas Jay

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Good idea to wait... gonna wait until Nov./Dec./Jan. to "get out -in-the field", myself.
I'm focusing on OLD "mountain roads", in the mountains of Bedford County, and "points" WEST & NORTH, along the James River. ONE thing I remember reading about KGC
maps & "waybills", is that SOMETIMES, they are for other states. In terms of NEW MEXICO... Santa Fe, on that mountain; are there tunnels under Santa Fe? That "VAULT" looks like a tunnel. In terms of COLORADO... I hear the words ICE CAVE, and even "see" it in words. Is there an ICE CAVE in Colorado, NORTH of Santa Fe? ANYWAY, seems to be on an "old trail" or something.

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Rebel. My partner and I are resuming our searches of other possible KGC sites in central Texas now but these don't have many high weeds, cacti, or lots of rocks and boulders where the snakes can hide. We are both very cautious and always on the alert even in these places. Heavy rainfall this month has been our biggest hindrance and has delayed some of our work a few times already but we simply postpone those hunts for better days. Other sites require considerable travel so we have to plan for that too. I'm so enthusiastic about what we have found so far that, if it were reasonable and safe, I'd be out in the field every day.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Texas Jay]

Newest web page about Bloody Bill Anderson. No opinions, comments, criticism, or analysis, only the facts as presented by Bloody Bill Anderson to Henry C. Fuller in 1924.

http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com/

~Texas Jay

 

[Texas Jay]

Newest web page about Bloody Bill Anderson. No opinions, comments, criticism, or analysis, only the facts as presented by Bloody Bill Anderson to Henry C. Fuller in 1924.

http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com/

~Texas Jay

Are you eluding that Bill Anderson was alive in 1924...or Fuller published something in regards to Anderson in 1924

Stop being so lazy, SWR, and just click on the web page link and read it for yourself. I'm not "eluding" anything. The web page does not include any opinions of mine, comments or criticizms from anyone else, only the facts as reported to Henry C. Fuller by William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson at his Salt Creek home in 1924.
~Texas Jay

http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com/

 

[Texas Jay]

Correction, SWR: facts from 1924 when the article appeared in newspapers and magazines all across the country. Henry C. Fuller was not a conspiracy or fiction writer but was a well-respected newspaperman and author of old west history. While I had heard of this article's existence all of my life, I was the first person to ever transcribe a copy onto the Internet in 2006. This single historical article refutes every fictitious claim that Brown County's William C. Anderson was the son of Stone County, Missouri's William M. Anderson, Sr. family and, as such, could not have been the Guerrilla leader known as Bloody Bill Anderson. His father and mother were William C. and Martha Anderson. I can prove that Bill Anderson was a Knight of the Golden Circle and have done so for our group's members but have no need to prove it to you or anyone who is not a member of our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group.
~Texas Jay

 

[Texas Jay]

The bottom line is that you are quoting our group's most ardent paid enemies who are known as the "Smokescreen Gang". Dozens of our members have thoroughly investigated Bloody Bill Anderson for over 4 years now and we have proven that William C. Anderson was the one and only Bloody Bill Anderson of Quantrill's Guerrillas. I hope you don't expect me to argue each of this discredited gang's points over again on this forum because I will not. I will say this and that is that, yes, the Smokescreen Gang does stalk me everywhere I go on the Net. Why don't you quote the name or names of the people you quote in your message, SWR? Are you afraid that I will reply with the truth about each and every one of them? We've not only thoroughly investigated Bloody Bill Anderson but we've also investigated each member of this gang of liars.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Shortstack]

Hey, Jay:
I see SWR is still dividing his time between naaaaaaaaaay saying on YOUR threads and naaaaaaaay saying on the Long Range detectors threads, with stop offs in the Rubber Room. A few days ago, I took him off "Ignore" and read some of his latest posts and DANG. He's STILL writing the same, old negative crap. Soooooo, I put him back into exile. With his tired negative viewpoints, he must be bipolar and off his meds. I mean, no HEALTHY person is ALWAYS negative.

OHHHHHH, welllllll.

 

[Texas Jay]

Hey, Jay:
I see SWR is still dividing his time between naaaaaaaaaay saying on YOUR threads and naaaaaaaay saying on the Long Range detectors threads, with stop offs in the Rubber Room. A few days ago, I took him off "Ignore" and read some of his latest posts and DANG. He's STILL writing the same, old negative crap. Soooooo, I put him back into exile. With his tired negative viewpoints, he must be bipolar and off his meds. I mean, no HEALTHY person is ALWAYS negative.

OHHHHHH, welllllll.

Hi Shortstack. Yes, it seems that SWR is the sole remaining mouthpiece, on this forum, for the disproven traditionalist Bloody Bill Anderson myth. ha. He must not be in the Smokescreen Gang's Inner Circle. I'm joining you in putting him "into exile". Since he failed to name the sources of his latest rampage directed at me, he must be scared of them and knows that I will let all the cats out of the bag regarding that discredited bunch.
~Texas Jay

 

[lastleg]

Jay:

Isn't the reason the group you are butting heads with is "known" as the
"Smokescreen Gang" is because you named them that? And you always say
your enemies are "paid." Would you mind explaining who pays people to
contradict your "theory?"
It really is a "theory" that several CW era organizations, the particular one
most famous, the Knights of the Goldern Circle, laid down elaborate hidden
vaults or crypts filled with enormous riches not only in the South but all over
the US. To accept this as nothing more than theory until a valid recovery of
very substantial wealth is made public is the rational viewpoint.
For instance, the "Beale Code" is a very popular legend, without merit, that
many folks swear by. However dissecting the original thesis reveals the yarn is
bogus. Yet because of the allure of cracking a code the core document is nearly
forgotten.
The "speculation" surrounding the KGC obscures a faulty premise. The actual
organization did have lofty ideals but in the end failed miserably in it's goals.
To assume and promulgate an unproven theory of fantastic unlocked store-
houses of vast wealth to groups of optimistic followers without proof is un-
sustainable.
You will recall a recent undoing of an obsessionist claiming to have found a
KGC "vault." His defenders were legion. The cuckoo alarms were sounded and
trashed by supporters. The saga eventually found fewer and fewer recruits
and discussion went offline. Then a brief echo of delusion. It was very sad.
I hope you don't end up like that, Jay Longley.