JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[Oroblanco]

Sure. Send me off on an errand. Not.

Wow too much effort for you to Google a simple thing huh? Well back to ignore you go, and you can sure find your own answers.

Don Jose, no worries, we have plenty of published statements from the Jesuits <Polzer, Burrus, et al> in which they deny ever having any mines or treasures. So they can have no claim on Tayopa.

 

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[doc-d]

Good point Oroblanco…….but what value are these statements when the entire judicial system is corrupted?
When it comes to wealth, corrupt men will stop at nothing to take what is not rightfully theirs…….
I believe Señor Don Jose careful, patient approach prudent…
Vaya con Dios mis amigos

 

[sailaway]

Oroblanco wrote:Look up history of tungsten. If there were tungsten in the ore of the Iron Door mine, it would almost certainly have been mentioned in the original story, especially the TIN linkage. Such is not the case.

Lets start from the begining of gold deposits.

Bog iron is impure iron deposits that develop in bogs or swamps by the chemical or biochemical oxidation of iron carried in the solutions. In general, bog ores consist primarily of iron oxyhydroxides, commonly goethite (FeO(OH)).
Iron-bearing groundwater typically emerges as a spring. The iron is oxidized to ferric hydroxide upon encountering the oxidizing environment of the surface. Bog ore often combines goethite, magnetite and vugs or stained quartz. Oxidation may occur through enzyme catalysis by iron bacteria. It is not clear whether the magnetite precipitates upon first contact with oxygen, then oxidizes to ferric compounds, or whether the ferric compounds are reduced when exposed to anoxic conditions upon burial beneath the sediment surface and reoxidized upon exhumation at the surface.
Iron made from bog ore will often contain residual silicates, which can form a glassy coating that grants some resistance to rusting. Bog iron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Limonite is an iron ore consisting of a mixture of hydrated iron oxide-hydroxides in varying composition. The generic formula is frequently written as FeO(OH)·nH2O, although this is not entirely accurate as the ratio of oxide to hydroxide can vary quite widely. Limonite is one of the two principal iron ores, the other being hematite, and has been mined for the production of iron since at least 2500 BCE.
Although originally defined as a single mineral, limonite is now recognized as a mixture of related hydrated iron oxide minerals, among them goethite, akaganeite, lepidocrocite, and jarosite. Individual minerals in limonite may form crystals, but limonite does not, although specimens may show a fibrous or microcrystalline structure, and limonite often occurs in concretionary forms or in compact and earthy masses; sometimes mammillary, botryoidal, reniform or stalactitic. Because of its amorphous nature, and occurrence in hydrated areas limonite often presents as a clay or mudstone. However there are limonite pseudomorphs after other minerals such as pyrite. This means that chemical weathering transforms the crystals of pyrite into limonite by hydrating the molecules, but the external shape of the pyrite crystal remains. Limonite pseudomorphs have also been formed from other iron oxides, hematite and magnetite; from the carbonate siderite and from iron rich silicates such as almandine garnets.
Iron caps or gossans of siliceous iron oxide typically form as the result of intensive oxidation of sulfide ore deposits. These gossans were used by prospectors as guides to buried ore. In addition the oxidation of those sulfide deposits which contained gold, often resulted in the concentration of gold in the iron oxide and quartz of the gossans. Goldbearing limonite gossans were productively mined in the Shasta County, California mining district. Similar deposits were mined near Rio Tinto in Spain and Mount Morgan in Australia. In the Dahlonega gold belt in Lumpkin County, Georgia gold was mined from limonite-rich lateritic or saprolite soil. The gold of the primary veins was concentrated into the limonites of the deeply weathered rocks. In another example the deeply weathered iron formations of Brazil served to concentrate gold with the limonite of the resulting soils.
Limonite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These Irons are necessary to transport the gold to the surface through super heated geothermal actions and are a good indicator that the Iron Door mine has or had gold in it.

GEOLOGY OF THE TUNGSTEN, ANTIMONY, AND GOLD DEPOSITS NEAR STIBNITE, IDAHO
http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0969f/report.pdf

Intrusion-related gold deposits associated with tungsten-tin provinces
Intrusion-related gold deposits, which occur within magmatic provinces best known for tungsten and/or tin mineralization, is described with reference to seven major deposits (Fort Knox, Mokrsko, Salave, Vasilkovskoe, Timbarra, Kidston and Kori Kollo). These gold deposits contain a metal suite that includes some combination of bismuth, tungsten, arsenic, tin, molybdenum, tellurium and antimony, and contrasts with that found in the more widely-developed gold-rich porphyry copper and related deposits. The gold deposits associated with tungsten and/or tin provinces are located in cratonic margins, in a landward or back-arc position relative to continental margin arcs (where recognized), or within continental collisional settings. The deposits are related genetically to felsic domes, stocks or plutons of intermediate oxidation state, both magnetite- and ilmenite-series magmas are represented. The intrusion-hosted gold deposits are most commonly of sheeted vein/veinlet type, although greisen-like, disseminated and breccia deposits are also described. Gold may also be concentrated more distally (1–3 km) with respect to the intrusions, where deposits may be of skarn, disseminated replacement or vein types. K-feldspar, albite and/or sericitic alteration assemblages, commonly including carbonate, accompany the gold mineralization. In sheeted vein deposits, alteration is normally restricted to narrow envelopes around veins, whereas more pervasive alteration occurs in greisen-like, disseminated and shallow (<3 km) deposits. The gold mineralization is commonly present with low total sulphide contents (<3%), mainly pyrite and lesser arsenopyrite. In several deposits, bismuth minerals are closely associated with gold, and bismuth-gold and tellurium-gold correlations exist. Most deposits contain tungsten, tin, molybdenum and antimony, although generally these do not correlate with gold; tungsten and molybdenum concentrations may increase with depth or may occur in separate zones. Base metals generally are present in minor amounts (e.g. <100 ppm Cu). The distinct spatial association with felsic intrusions, combined with the consistent metal signature, suggests a magmatic-hydrothermal origin. Fluid inclusions studies indicate the presence of high-salinity fluids in some deposits, and low-salinity and carbonic fluids in most deposits, similar to the composition of fluids in intrusion-related tungsten deposits. Variations in mineralization style largely reflect depth of formation and location relative to the intrusive centre. Several deposits in this class contain >100 tonnes (3 million oz) of gold, thereby highlighting the gold potential of intrusion-related deposits beyond the more traditionally explored gold and copper provinces in arc terranes.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001260050207

Discovery of Tungsten
In 1779 Irish chemist Peter Woulfe deduced the existence of a new element – tungsten – from his analysis of the mineral wolframite (an iron manganese tungstate mineral).
Tungsten was isolated as tungstic oxide (WO3) in 1781, in Sweden, by Carl W. Scheele from the mineral scheelite (calcium tungstate). However he did not have a suitable furnace to reduce the oxide to the metal.
Tungsten was finally isolated by brothers Fausto and Juan Jose de Elhuyar in 1783, in Spain, by reduction of acidified wolframite with charcoal. http://www.chemicool.com/elements/tungsten.html

The Jesuits would not have known that the hard rock was anything more than bog Iron as it had not been discovered until after they were gone and no longer mining this mine.
The iron deposits most likely would not be mentioned because most of that is discarded when gold mining. Does this mean the gold played out? who knows? However it would have left a large tailing pile for the next miners who saw the discarded minerals as a source of easy revenue. To me the mineral content indicates the site of a once extremely rich gold vein.
Was it named the Iron Door because of the hard rock that had to be removed to get to the Gold?

 

[Oroblanco]

Lets start from the begining of gold deposits.


<snip>



The Jesuits would not have known that the hard rock was anything more than bog Iron as it had not been discovered until after they were gone and no longer mining this mine.
The iron deposits most likely would not be mentioned because most of that is discarded when gold mining. Does this mean the gold played out? who knows? However it would have left a large tailing pile for the next miners who saw the discarded minerals as a source of easy revenue. To me the mineral content indicates the site of a once extremely rich gold vein.
Was it named the Iron Door because of the hard rock that had to be removed to get to the Gold?

Tungsten is usually associated with TIN; the Jesuits, as were virtually all Europeans, were certainly able to smelt and identify TIN, which should have showed up in their extraction process. NO mention of any TIN associated with the Iron Door however.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

But none officially from the Vatican since they did mine freely in South America and the Old world.

Jose

p.s. this was interesting - Several deposits in this class contain >100 tonnes (3 million oz) of gold, thereby highlighting the gold potential of intrusion-related deposits beyond the more traditionally explored gold and copper provinces in arc terranes.

 

[sailaway]

Oro, what would the Jesuits have used Tin for? It may have been easily identifiable, but why would it get mentioned if there was a large deposit of gold? I personally would not have even thought of the Tin other than as by product of the gold smelting. How ever if some bells could be found and analyzed I would bet that it would contain Tin. Did you notice in the earlier post that these types of deposits contained copper and were usually in copper belts? This could be the source for the copper for the bells, which would already have had Tin in association with it.

Bronze is an alloy consisting primarily of copper. The addition of other metals (usually tin, sometimes arsenic), produces an alloy much harder than plain copper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze

On my last trip to AZ. I went past the area that the mine is in, and noticed Large Crosses cut out of the upper hillsides.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi blue deer : tis addictive- unfortunately Stick around, we may butt heads bt we are actually friends NO? Coffee?

Jose

 

[Oroblanco]

Oro, what would the Jesuits have used Tin for? It may have been easily identifiable, but why would it get mentioned if there was a large deposit of gold?

To make pewter for dishes, pans, cups and many other things, as well as in making bronze. Read Nentvig's description of Sonora, there is no mention of tin anywhere, or the other Jesuit sources in which the German Jesuits mention that the Spaniards seem to take no notice of valuable deposits of copper and lead, which could produce a fortune if mined, and again there is no mention of any tin deposits. Pewter was an important metal for everyday household items in the 1700s and tin was highly sought after. The presence of tungsten in the form of wolframite, would have been a major nuisance in extracting the tin as it bonds readily with it and is difficult to separate. Plus we know from their letters that the Jesuit missionaries were importing cooking pans, pots, etc so obviously did not have a local source for tin to make pewter cookware.

Anyone can name any mine, with any name desired. You could stake a claim and name it the Lost Dutchman or the Iron Door, and legally that is the name of it. Having the name does not make it the genuine original however. Let us not be TOO quick to just accept any claim that a famous lost mine has been found, especially when a red flag like that high percentage of tungsten shows up.

Oroblanco

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Wow too much effort for you to Google a simple thing huh? Well back to ignore you go, and you can sure find your own answers.

Don Jose, no worries, we have plenty of published statements from the Jesuits <Polzer, Burrus, et al> in which they deny ever having any mines or treasures. So they can have no claim on Tayopa.

Far beyond me to argue with you taking yourself out of the conversation

 

[deducer]

Far beyond me to argue with you taking yourself out of the conversation

Do you have anything else to offer than a snotty attitude?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Blood line of Montezuma?? Ya mean you are a decendent of one of the lost tribes of Israel Shalom !!

Jose

 

[Oroblanco]

Hey ya'll... My Father just put the funniest thought in my head... And here it is... As a decendant of Montezuma's bloodline... Do I have any legal claim to any looted items by Spanish, Jesuit, or any Franciscans of any Aztec artifacts and silver and gold that I may discover in Mexico Seeing that said riches were looted from the native Aztecs and other indigenous Indians of Mexico...

Inquiring minds would like to know...

Ed T

You should start legal proceedings at once, do not delay or you risk forfeiture of any claims! You will need to file a brief in both Madrid and Mexico City naming both governments as defendants, and the entire populations of both countries as well, so there may be some reasonable court costs involved but I am sure you won't have trouble finding lawyers ready and willing to jump into the fray for you, for a fee of course. Good luck Your Majesty, I hope you will remember your helpful pals when you are back on your rightful throne too!

 

[FEMF]

You should start legal proceedings at once, do not delay or you risk forfeiture of any claims! You will need to file a brief in both Madrid and Mexico City naming both governments as defendants, and the entire populations of both countries as well, so there may be some reasonable court costs involved but I am sure you won't have trouble finding lawyers ready and willing to jump into the fray for you, for a fee of course. Good luck Your Majesty, I hope you will remember your helpful pals when you are back on your rightful throne too!

Roy
Your terrible, Be careful, Don't fall out of that chair my friend!
FEMF

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BD.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

FEMP, you posted to Oro "Don't fall out of that chair"?? shucks he has an advisory, he gets a percentage !!!

Hmm I srill wonder if we can make a deal with the Vatican BD? I would be happy witn 10% of the Tayopa complex.

Jose

 

[UncleMatt]

Better yet, my ancestors were taken as slaves by the Spanish. So do I now have a claim against the Spanish government for that? If they find precious metals in Spanish ships on the sea floor, wouldn't the portion of that my ancestors mined be returned to me?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Deducer: Careful his ancestors, along with the Jesuits, were about to take over North America. They have lots of loot stored up at Tayopa.







de

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BD collective right. In other words, after the Lawyer get their cut, nothing, and you will be taxed on that.

 

[Oroblanco]

So Don Jose... Everyone knows that the lawyers get the lions share... Case in point...I am descended from Montezuma on my grandfather's side... Which I have already mentioned... Well... On my grandmother's side...I am a descendant of the Arevalos' I believe... Anyhow... A Texas lawyer contacted my grandmother back in the 70's saying that she was a direct descendant involved in a Spanish land grant settlement... She was told that there was so much money involved that the US gov't wanted to tax it in the 90% tax bracket... The king of Spain had granted her family land from Tamaulipas Mexico to Corpus Christi Texas... To this day... We haven't seen a cent... Go figure... A descendant of Mexican royalty forced into slavery marrying a descendant of Spanish aristocrats friends of the King of Spain... How ironic... No

Anyhow...As I have mentioned... There are other things of much more value than worldly possessions... Tayopa is just another feather in my cap... hehehe

Ed T

Hmm you fellows may profit from a new look at the tax codes and rates, and keep in mind that MOST court awards are NON TAXABLE. Lawyers can not take a larger percentage than you will agree to either. That 90% tax bracket has been gone for over two decades, perhaps you have not noticed the tax breaks for the very top brackets of the last decades but in many cases, folks in the top 1% tax brackets can legally pay nothing in taxes.

Good luck and of course I would be more than happy to be your Ambassador to Tahiti, when you get around to appointing those things!
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Here is an international legal question that has me perplexed... Mexico emphasizes that any child born outside of Mexico to a parent who is a Mexican citizen is by law a legal Mexican citizen... So, seeing that my dad's father was a Mexican citizen living in Texas when my dad was born... Such would make my dad a legal Mexican citizen... Right... Even if my dad was a Texan... So... Here is the question that has me perplexed... If my dad was a legal Mexican citizen by law accordingly Might that make me a legal Mexican citizen... Seeing that by law my dad was a Mexican citizen Even if I was born in CA


Ed T

Call my office to arrange an appointment, the office number and address are:

1-800-BR-549
<Ask for Junior>

Dewey, Fleecem & Howe,
Suite Life bldg, room 1
at the northern corner of Main street across from the Woolworths Dept store.

Don't listen to real attorneys and lawyers, you can put your case in MY hands! (har har)

Seriously amigo this is heading way off topic, I can not see how this relates to the topic question, Jesuit Treasures - Are They Real?