JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

Roy,

[<from Travels of the Jesuits, pp 503-506, Lockman, vol II, 1762>

Hmm that copy-paste seems to have produced a bunch of errors and I don't have the time to correct it all so here is the book on Google Books, just go to:
Travels of the Jesuits, Into Various Parts of the World: Particularly China ... - John Lockman - Google Books
and skip to page 503 for the story.]


While what he writes might be true, would you concede that Lockman might just be a little biased? Not possible?

Take care,

Joe
 

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cactusjumper said:
Roy,

[<from Travels of the Jesuits, pp 503-506, Lockman, vol II, 1762>

Hmm that copy-paste seems to have produced a bunch of errors and I don't have the time to correct it all so here is the book on Google Books, just go to:
Travels of the Jesuits, Into Various Parts of the World: Particularly China ... - John Lockman - Google Books
and skip to page 503 for the story.]


While what he writes might be true, would you concede that Lockman might just be a little biased? Not possible?

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but is Lockman the true source? He cites as his source:
Morale pratique de Jesuites, Tom VII p 386 & seq, Printed 1693

As to others doing this same practice of false interpetation between Amerindians and Europeans, history is rife with examples; one that comes to mind was when Crazy Horse was sent a question (after his surrender) if he would enlist as a scout against the Nez Perce, his reply was that henot only would help but would fight until there were no Nez Perce, but the interpreter reported this as he would fight until there were no whites left. This led to his arrest and death.

However this is hardly the only example of a Jesuit giving false interpretation that seemed to reflect well on himself and his Order, nor the only example of the Jesuits seeming to prevent the teaching of the European language they were supposed to be teaching the native peoples, as happened in Paraguay, Canada, Louisiana and yep Mexico too.
Oroblanco
 

Just to reinforce that post concerning the Jesuits keeping the Europeans 'walled off' from "their" Indians by not teaching the language, remember this is exactly the state of affairs reported by father Garces when he arrived in Pimeria Alta in 1768. Duplicity and deception does not help the image of the Jesuits as the 'good shepherds' seeking only to save the souls of the heathen.
 

Need help!!!! Found Tayopa Church and Mine.. Have aerial photos... Mexican govt will not work with me since I am not a university, just me is not good enough, but they agree it is Tayopa... Help!!!!
 

Bluedeer, just out of curiosity, why are you so sure Señor Don Jose does not know the location of Tayopa?
Have you spoke with him? Have you read all his posts? Is it possible he also has info not mentioned?
While you may know the location, it would seem to be a mistake to speak for Señor Don Jose who has much knowledge, experience and skill……..
Have you had your coffee today? Perhaps the addition of some Crow supplement could help in discerning this.
 

I got the cookie! I got the cookie! like some feel a need to say, even if it is actually a cow pie they describe, and that even in another's pasture.
 

bluedeer said:
Well Doc...I have been reading Don Jose's posts for years now...Since August 2009... Heck... I do believe that Don Jose believes that he has found Tayopa... Yet... I believe that he is blinded by his obsession of finding it... Who knows???

I...On the other hand... Could care less about it and its riches... Oh well... I just may end up taking the true Tayopa's location to the crematory... lol I do not seek the recognition of finding it neither... I am just content that My Father has revealed its location too me... In a way... I see it as being kind of like the bible passage that states that Satan took Jesus to a high mountaintop and offered him kingdoms and riches of the world if he would bow down and worship and serve him... If such a thing truly happened... I do not lust after worldly things... So I do not need any of the things associated with Tayopa's discovery...

And why in the world would I need Crow's supplements??? Hehehe

Ed T:)
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Ed T said:
Possiby because My Father is compelling me to do so Springfield...Who am I to question why he wants me to do so??? I have a notion... But it is still a little sketchy... Maybe he wants the Jesuits and others to know that I am who I am...LOL

I'm Popeye the sailor man...hehehe

Besides...How else can I open up peoples eyes to other things of more value than riches of this world??? For to me...Such things are vanity I say...And they are also the mark of the beast I say...How can one buy or sell without money in one's hand...Or how can one have credit...On one's head...If they do not have money??? Thus one can not buy without money or credit...The things that the blind find as valuable are truly vanity...

I could go on and on...But how can the blind see...If they are blinded by vanity???:icon_scratch:

Ed T:)
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Is this the same person using 2 different log in names..................:dontknow: I thought that using multiple names is against T-net rules.
 

Ed T said:
I had never read anywhere that such a thing was not allowed Somero... There are many who do such a thing... The moderators know those who have more than one screen name... When I was banned... Both of my screen names were banned...

Ed T
Click to expand...

Why would you need more than 1 account?
 

Yep, in fact it is against the rules. Let me know which one you'd like to keep, and I'll take care of it.
 

You are using one name to support the other in threads.

We consider using multiple accounts at same time as fraudulent....

Okay you chose, Bluedeer will be deleted..


For future reference to all we consider members using multiple names at same time as a rule violation, using one name to support posts made under another name is even more so.........

We do take action when we find them..
 

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Ed T said:
And here I was thinking that My Father wanted me to fish for 2 witnesses to take to Tayopa...And I was leaning toward Don Jose de La Mancha and Oro...But I guess that I was wrong... Maybe bluedeer and Ed T are the two witnesses...hehehe

And what makes you any different from the Jesuits Don Jose de Somero??? But then again maybe ya'll are not one and the same...

Ed T
Click to expand...

Hey amigo I don't want to know where it is, until you have it under a legal claim. I have enough on my plate as it is, don't want to know such a piece of info until you have it 'signed, sealed, delivered' so there would not be any doubts or fears that someone is going to claim-jump. I am in no hurry (especially with the state of affairs in parts of Mexico) so can wait, then once you have filed your claim, then we can talk! :thumbsup: :notworthy:

I am pretty sure that Don Jose is only Real de Tayopa, Somero is a different person.

To try to get back on topic, as to the author previously mentioned, whom was questioned as to whether he was a Jesuit hater; read over the preface of his book. He is no hater of the Jesuits, no lover of them either. The author he sited was Dr. Arnauld, for the book (in French, however in English translated the title was The Practical Morals of the Jesuits, 1684) and Lockman explained, quote:

I must observe however that I don't pretend to warrant the Truth of any Passages extracted from them or from any other Opponent of the Jesuits any more than I do those Particulars translated by me which the Fathers relate in favour of themselves.
Click to expand...

Lockman had some good words for the Jesuits as well; the two volumes make for an interesting look into things as of 1760, from an English point of view.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
 

Senor Don Jose……..how does the presence of the narco's in Mexico affect Tayopa? Seems they get their filthy paws into much down there and the gov seems largely impotent in controlling them.
 

Actually they 'are' at Tayopa,in fact they now use the drainage from El Santo Nino to water their Mappy Plants. I shudder to think as to how I would have to explain it to the federals. Actually it is no worse the in the larger cities in the US , protective payoffs., In any event, they know if there is a pot at the end of the rainbow, they will share without force Enough for all.

Jose
 

Oroblanco said:
Ah my partner beat me to the punch line - they changed the Mexican mining laws a couple of years ago so you do not have to be a citizen to denounce a claim now, which is one of the big reasons why I am still making plans for my own little "visit" to Sonora, as soon as things calm down (gunfire-wise) in the area; have something to check out that can only be done from Sonora, and a little-known neat lost mine to look for, which will make Tayopa look astounding by comparison! (haha you thought I would say the opposite! :tongue3:) And no I don't care to say anything more about the mine, sorry just figure that I am off chasing rainbows if/when I get to go.

To try to tie this back into the topic, suppose the Society of Jesus were to offer you a reward, for locating a lost stash of their church ornaments, bells etc? Would you be interested?

Oroblanco

:coffee2::coffee2:
Click to expand...

I am not all that up on mining law, what is this "denounce a claim " thing?
 

ConceptualizedNetherlandr wrote:
suppose the Society of Jesus were to offer you a reward, for locating a lost stash of their church ornaments, bells etc? Would you be interested?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
If the Bells and church ornaments were found, why would you not consider the Catholic Church as a proper place for the artifacts? The only way I would consider such was with a contract to perpetually care for the artifacts in its as close to original environment, e.g. church environment that was as close to the original area as possible. Finders fee would not be the issue for me. Would be public display and preservation. Why not rebuild the Tayopa Church for the Tayopa Bells? The silver alter put back where it belongs? This should not be about the money, but about historic preservation. This is a subject that is close to my heart as I have a company that is registered with the U.N. for Historic Preservation.
 

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