JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[releventchair]

Well, the card Jr. holds is gold.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sorry BD, most only pass that on to their son, If the son continus to reside outside of the parent country, then his son (you. me n) cannot inherit the citizenship of the grand parent

Me, I am Oirish because of my Grand mother but my son is not.

Mexico passed that law since so many are in the US illegally they want to get their fingers in the Pie and collect income tax from them in one form r another.

Yer a damn Rebel, or a Texican. Ya-all is from Southern calif, honey chile.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ED, you can legaly file on it even if your not a citizen

 

[Oroblanco]

ED, you can legaly file on it even if your not a citizen

Ah my partner beat me to the punch line - they changed the Mexican mining laws a couple of years ago so you do not have to be a citizen to denounce a claim now, which is one of the big reasons why I am still making plans for my own little "visit" to Sonora, as soon as things calm down (gunfire-wise) in the area; have something to check out that can only be done from Sonora, and a little-known neat lost mine to look for, which will make Tayopa look astounding by comparison! (haha you thought I would say the opposite! ) And no I don't care to say anything more about the mine, sorry just figure that I am off chasing rainbows if/when I get to go.

To try to tie this back into the topic, suppose the Society of Jesus were to offer you a reward, for locating a lost stash of their church ornaments, bells etc? Would you be interested?

Oroblanco

 

[UncleMatt]

Would this Jesuit offer include documents from their archives that would assist in such an endeavor?

 

[Oroblanco]

Would this Jesuit offer include documents from their archives that would assist in such an endeavor?

Yes but only available to you after you had agreed to assist, and you could never reveal what you saw. The reward would be respectable (five figures) but not a fortune either.

 

[Springfield]

Yes but only available to you after you had agreed to assist, and you could never reveal what you saw. The reward would be respectable (five figures) but not a fortune either.

OK, I'm in, but for six figures (gold coins, no paperwork - half up front), GPS coordinates (+/- 20 feet), and a per diem expense account. Based on Oro's estimates, they can certainly afford these terms. Oh, and Oro - if there's something in the hole, I'll eat your hat to boot. A bruschetta fedora will do - lightly toasted.

 

[UncleMatt]

five figures? Try six, minimum!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

If the gov't ( Read Jesuits ) is with you, , the military will be there !!!

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Oh, and Oro - if there's something in the hole, I'll eat your hat to boot. A bruschetta fedora will do - lightly toasted.

You would not like my hat, it is leather and I don't need extra holes in it. Besides, your terms are much higher than what was offered, they did not offer that much so you would not be there.

Bluedeer wrote

Well Oro... Do you really think that they would do such a thing after they have insisted for so long that they did not own any mines And besides...I had the funniest thought... What if Tayopa is like the stash at White Sands New Mexico You know the one right

I did not mention any mines in that question, just church ornaments, bells etc. The Jesuits could own gold and silver church ornaments without having a mine. And as to what is in Tayopa, you know whom to ask.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, try to avoid those "firing squads" of course.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

You would not like my hat, it is leather and I don't need extra holes in it. Besides, your terms are much higher than what was offered, they did not offer that much so you would not be there. ...

Ptooey! Well, take me off the list.

 

[Oroblanco]

Is this a trick question Oro?

Yes.

Bluedeer also wrote

First one would have to find the remains of the church... And then one would have to figure out where the door was located... And finally... One would have to go xxx varas East then xx South... Or is that where the 23,000,000 pesos are stashed... Oh...THe church items are buried under the church... Right? I wonder how much of this is Jesuit smoke and mirrors? Hmm... hehehe

Ed T

Smoke and mirrors are only part of the equation, even have to read the shadows to get at the treasure.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ed, I have already posted a picture of the church and the capilla

Jose .

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Do you have anything else to offer than a snotty attitude?

http://robpetkau.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/pot-and-kettke.jpg

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Hey ya'll... My Father just put the funniest thought in my head... And here it is... As a decendant of Montezuma's bloodline... Do I have any legal claim to any looted items by Spanish, Jesuit, or any Franciscans of any Aztec artifacts and silver and gold that I may discover in Mexico Seeing that said riches were looted from the native Aztecs and other indigenous Indians of Mexico...

Inquiring minds would like to know...

Ed T

Depends. How big is your army?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Here is an international legal question that has me perplexed... Mexico emphasizes that any child born outside of Mexico to a parent who is a Mexican citizen is by law a legal Mexican citizen... So, seeing that my dad's father was a Mexican citizen living in Texas when my dad was born... Such would make my dad a legal Mexican citizen... Right... Even if my dad was a Texan... So... Here is the question that has me perplexed... If my dad was a legal Mexican citizen by law accordingly Might that make me a legal Mexican citizen... Seeing that by law my dad was a Mexican citizen Even if I was born in CA


Ed T

That idea works for Canada. Sounds like Mexico could take over the world just by emigration

 

[Oroblanco]

Army? Who needs an army when I have My Father He is all of the army that I need... Although My Father does have a vast army... I am but only one member of his army... And how is the war going so far For believe it or not... We are at war and I do not think ya'll are doing very well... And I have no other weapons other than my mind and my will and who knows what else After all... A holy war is not fought with sticks and stones or any other weapons for that matter... Shoot... I am certain that some of ya'll have seen my little signet proving that My Father has deemed me worthy too become a member of his team... So... Why would I ever want to become a member of any of ya'lls foolish teams of this worldhehehe

Ed T

Hebrews 8:10

Back to our topic;

I have become suspicious even of the reported love for the Jesuit padres by their Indians. While I have no doubt that some did love their padres, in some cases there was some duplicity going on and a quite distorted view of the state of affairs is what "the public" got to hear/see. Here is an example:

The following Account of the Artifice and Double dealing of a J suit appear d curious to me The first Mission lays my Author undertaken by the secular Clergy into Canada was begun by the Ecclefiasticks of the Seminary of St Sulpice St Sulpice is the richest Rectory in Paris Tiie Superior of this Million was Meffire Gabriel de Quelus with whom were join d two Priests Mr Souart and Mr Galinier These Clergymen were not indulged by the Jesuits who were settled at Quebec all the Succours they might have expected from those Fathers with regard to the Conversion of the Heathens As the Jesuits had resided a great many Years in this Country they had acquir d perfectly the Languages of the Savages had reduced those Tongues into a Method and drawn up Dictionaries of them But then this was merely for their own Use they not communicating their Papers to any one not even to the Clergymen abovemention d who were earnestly desirous of learning those Languages However the latter found Means to procure Copies of these Books which the Jesuits kept so close for Madame dAdbout whose Husband had been Governor of the Province secretly lent those Clergymen the Books she having borrow d em of the Fathers who were oblig J to lend them her Some of the Clergy in Question learnt these Languages by Rule and particularly the jUgankine whereby they had the better Opportunity to converse with the Savages and discover the Mysteries of the Jesuits Mr Barthelemi Bartholomew who had been of the Choir of St Sulpice and was afterwards sent to the Mission of Canada in 664 being at Mont real there came in above two hundred Canoos laden with Beaver skins brought by the Outatrvas to i jebec With this little Fket arriv J Father Nicholas a Jesuit wno had been sent as Missionary to these Nation and was cone t3 pass a little Time in Qnebcc as likewise the Chief of the Nation of the Outaorvas call d in the Language of the Courtly Kinoncka This Chief being highly offended at the Behaviour ot Father Nicholas who tynnnii d over him and his People finding much Candour and Civility in Mr Bartbelemi open d his Mind to him in his native Language which differs but little from that of the Algonkints He dedar d that Father Nicholas was very haughty and imperious and had carried his Tyranny lo such Lengths as even to beat him Kinoncha that he was continually praising himself and his Companions and poke thus to him during their Voyage To prove to thee how much those who are doath d as I am are more excellent than such as are dressed also in black Gowns but made dif ferently frem ours the Instant we arrive at Mont real those Men in black Gowns will come and salute me very respect sully will make me the lowest Bows and intreat me to per form among them the most holy Act of the Christian Rtli gion Thou wilt lee me cloath d in splendid Robe of Gold and Silver whilst those other Men now in black Gowns will then be dressed very richly attend upon me as my Ministers and others again with Copes on will salute me in the hum blest Manner Mr Barthcicmi inserm d the ecclesiastical Community os what Kinoncha told him when it was resoh d not to permit father Nicholas to celebrate Mass solemnly since this wou d give the savage Nations a still more advantageous Idea of his Person but especially it was thought abominable that he stiou d employ such Methods under the Mask of Religion A few Days after Father Nicholas told the Superior of the Community that it wou d be proper in order to imprint in the Mil ds of these Barbarians a greater Awe and Veneration for our Religion to celebrate Mase in an august Manner before them and that it would be necessary for him to officiate on this Occasion as this wou d give him who was their Missionary still greater Credit Authority and Weight The Superior anlwer d that he must mention the Affair to the Community which being done they were unanimously of Opinion that this Honour ought to be refused the Father and accordingly it was denied him Kinoncha asking Mr Bartbelemi why Father Nicholas had not celebrated Mais in a solemn Manner and whether he did not desire to do it the other told him what had happen d upon which Kinoncha said 4 Did I not tell thee the i ruth Thou seell how fond that Man is of Command The Fleet of Canoos set fail and arriv d at Quebec where Mr de Cour felles a Gentleman of Normandy was Governor He was to give Audience lo Kinoncha but suspected very much his Interpreter Faiher Urcvillette a Jesuit Interpreter for the Language of the Algonkincs and their Dependencies The Governor therefere therefore sent for two Men who understood that Tongue and said to each of them apart I hall give Audience by and by to Kimncba and desire you to inform me sincerely and justly of the Contents of his Speech and whether the Interpreter explain d it faithfully One of these two Men was young and did not seem to understand the Language the Jesuits not imagining he had copied their Books and they likewise knew that he had never resided among the Savages consequently nothing was to be apprehended from him so that he appear d publickly at the Audience The other Person's Name was Courville an Inhabitant of Quebec who had liv d many Years in the Country and understood the Language a Savage having taught it him As Cour villc cou d not be present at the Audience without making the Jesuits uneasy it being well known that he understood the Language the Governor caused him to be hid in a Closer whence he cou d hear distinctly all that shou d bj said in the Audience Kinoncha then appear d with the several Insignia of his Dignity he being adorn d with a great many Pieces of Porcelane as Necklaces and Bracelets which highly distin guilh d him He carried in his Hand the Present sent from the Nation of the Outaoa as being a large Circle of Porcelane which he of fer d to the Governor as the Marks of a great Captain and Prince He afterwards made his Harangue on which Occasion his Eloquence was nervous and heightned by exalted Figures of Speech After discoursing some Time he stopt in order to give the Interpreter an Opportunity of explaining his Words during which he himself fat down and smoak d his Pipe whilst the Interpreter was speaking and whenever the latter had ended Kinoncha proceeded in his Harangue with equal Majesty and Strength Father Drevillette not suspecting that any Person present understood Kinoncha Language instead of rendring it faithfully gave it a quite contrary Interpretation Instead of the heavy Complaints which Kinoncha made against Father Nicholas and taking Notice of the Tyranny he had ex ercifed over him and the Nation of the Outaovas he declar d that his Presence was earnestly desir d in their Country in a Word he said all he possibly cou d to the Advantage of Father Nicholas and of the Jesuits in general The Audience being ended and the Company withdrawn the Governor enquir d first of the young Man who understood the Al onkine Language what was his Opinion of Father Dre villette and whether he had done his Duty To which the other replied that the Father had quite misinterpreted Kinoncha's iw s Meanings and had expatiated in Praise of Father Nicholas whereas the Ht ithen had dedar d that he was in supportable to their whole Nation That he had used Kinonxba himself shockingly lie having beat him tho Chief of the People a Treatment exercised towards none but the meanest Wretches However that as this was an Affair of Conse quence he desir d him to hear Courville without telling him what he had then said Couruille desired to be excused saying that as he had a Family and was settled in the Country this consequently mignt do him Prejudice The Governor assuring him that lie would be very secret and observing farther that he had not been seen by any one Couruille declar d that Father DrevilLttt had told him the very counter Part of Kinta cbu Harangue The Governor being fully persuaded from the Tellimony of these two Men of which no Suspicion cou d be entertain J that Father Drevillctte had acted perfidiously besides lus having suspected the Jesuit on another Account went to Father Mercier then Rector of the Jesuit's College when informing him of Father Drevillette a Double dealing and the many Complaints brought against Father Nicholas it was agreed that the latter sticu d be put on Board the first Ship which might set fail for France Morale pratique de J fsuites Tom VII p 386 S feq Printed at 1693 zmo The Author closes this Story as follows All the Relations publisiVd by the Jesuits concerning Canada are stuffed with Untrutl a The Instant these were printed in France they were always sent to the Clergy of Mont real in Canada who were astonisti d to see how strangely the Fathers disguised Matters Mr de Cour fella writing Advice of this to Court the Jesuits were order d to pjb lh no more Relations These Fathers have such an Ascendai t in this Country that they go into all Houses and imperiously enquire about whatever is doing in them j and when they are rc urn d Home they relate all they have heard and thence regulate their Politicks They aicrib d cither to a surprizing Spirit of Cariosity or to a most irregular blind Zeal.

<from Travels of the Jesuits, pp 503-506, Lockman, vol II, 1762>

Hmm that copy-paste seems to have produced a bunch of errors and I don't have the time to correct it all so here is the book on Google Books, just go to:
Travels of the Jesuits, Into Various Parts of the World: Particularly China ... - John Lockman - Google Books
and skip to page 503 for the story.

Basically this Jesuit was using his knowledge of the Indian language as a sort of 'barrier' to keep the Indians and French from being able to communicate, and falsely interpreted the statements of the Indian chief to make it appear that rather than complaining about the imperious ways of the priest, it was filled with praise and love for him and all Jesuits! How many times did this happen and the deception was NOT caught, so that our historians are getting those distorted, lying versions of how the Indians felt about the Jesuits?

Good luck and good hunting amigos, sorry for the poor quality of this cut-n-paste, if I had the time I would try to fix it up.
Oroblanco

 

[doc-d]

While this report may be true, do you doubt the same crap was practiced by all sides involved……
I am not making excuses of the Jesuits………they had some faithful servants of Jesus, and others who were faithful servants of another god with horns……
There are good and bad in all groups, although it seems the Jesuits may have more than their share of bad……..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

GNetherlands Humph, I am not called Kettle, but Jose ! Coffee?

 

[deducer]

http://robpetkau.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/pot-and-kettke.jpg

Alright, think I'll join Roy and a few others who have put you on ignore.