Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

[Kace]

Anything I can help with just ask...I remember starting my family genealogy and some of the things that a person runs into. Sometimes it's worse now and sometimes better.

I didn't realize any of the Allen Parmer family were associated with the land in Kansas Pastore supposedly did that show on..or that any KGC caches had been found.

You'll probably get a few different opinions about that show on here. There were a couple active members who I haven't seen here for awhile who one of them at least actually worked the Jere Miah James property with Pastore... He swears that where that jar with the coins was found was a plant for the show. If you watch it slowly or repeat it several times you can see there's no aging to it. This guy is a serious type of treasure hunter. He wouldn't associate himself anymore with Pastore after seeing some of the things he did and said. If you go back to the first part of the KGC forum here, you can read it. The guy is still active in treasure hunting. I think that show was done in 2009 if I remember right. No.. he didn't dig the last few feet to what he claimed was buried KGC treasure. He was hoping for another show and after what happened with the family and Kurtis seeing him for what he is...It Didn't Happen.

My issues with Pastore are him repeating and adding to the lies in the BB. To me he's a modern day Howk just scamming people any chance he can. He wants attention through any means he can get it and make money on the tall tales.

That being said, I did for awhile think that since the resemblance of Jere Miah James gGrandson to JWJ was so amazing that there had to be some sort of familial relationship. I have researched that family though and after doing that I'm convinced along with most of his family there is no kinship. That was disappointing! They also have been in legal issues with Pastore over his actions. You might be able to find that online.

There were 15 scientists along with Professor Starr's who said that the DNA that was submitted and compared was consistent to JWJ's....But.. that body was buried in 1882, exhumed and re buried in 1902, exhumed and re buried in 1978 and exhumed again for DNA testing in 1995. There was Never a chain of handling/custody. There will Never be any type of testing that cannot be challenged. At the 1978 exhumation...that was a rotted wooden casket with the glass pane window above what would be the facial area. It was broken of course but the glass shards were clearly visible. I only mention these things to show that where everyone says the DNA testing was screwed up and some say conspiracy...There was no way it could be absolute. No Way. 3 exhumations and nothing done to protect anything?? I thought the '95 exhumation for testing was ridiculous to do.

In the BB there are things said about Montana...due to JJ3 claiming JWJ was Senator William Andrews Clark...Copper King.

I agree...it's about the thrill of the chase and hunting...I just like to do it as fact based as possible! lol! Others don't and that's fine too... it just muddies the waters when false statements, non existent people and claims are thrown out as facts for those who take it seriously.

There are several serious KGC researchers and hunters participating in this thread and I'm sure when we get to those parts they will chime in. They have this book too, but have done some major KGC/CSA research and hunting from other sources.

Kace

 

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[Kace]

According to JJ3 while talking to his schoolmate and lawyer TT Crittenden, Brother in Law Cole Younger and Brother Dr Franklin Sylvester James, JWJ was urging TTC to run for Governor and gave him $35k in cash and a $35k bank draft and discussing his troubles with Jay Gould and the non existent Charlie Bigelow who he says was living in the St, Joe Home on Lafayette St as Thomas Howard.

JJ3 says they were planning the killing of the Bigelow brothers and that Charlie would be used in his place to fake JWJ's death... JJ3 says Bigelow aka Howard was under surveillance by one of JWJ detectives Elmer Johnson who lived across the street from the Lafayette St house.
(I've not found anything on Elmer Johnson from 1882). In the book his character was a RR man and also a stonemason.

According to JJ3, Jay Gould and JWJ knew each other well and says Gould would come to the James Plantation House in Kentucky and that he sold thimbles and thread.

The next character to show up is Bud Dalton who JJ3 says is JWJ's UNCLE and also is Lewis Dalton's Brother who "spawned the 10 brothers who made up the Dalton gang" and is part of the team who killed the Bigelow brothers along with Black John Trammell, General JO Shelby and Bob and Charlie Ford, their father and black jockey Luclry Johnson....5 other black gunslingers, 9 Indians and 2 Garrett brothers along with 12 railroad detectives, 3 Curtis brothers, Will ?, Two Howk brothers, Obediah and Harry from Kentucky, Cyclone Denton, Roy Baxter, Theodore Herbert, and the Overton Brothers. Oh and a Union Drummer Boy Frank Mayer who was at the Battle of Little Big Horn...Under the name of Lt. Frank Crowe.

Lotta Names and there are several Indian Names I didn't mention.

Kace

Merry Christmas!

 

[Sallysue]

Did you all decide where J James is buried at ?

 

[Kace]

Did you all decide where J James is buried at ?

No, this thread pretty much is just about the BB, official records and the claims and characters in the book.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Wow. Get a wk. behind on this thread & it takes awhile to catch up. Sorry (again) for being late but here goes to the prior posts.
Kace, did you say JJ3 said Cole Younger was a Civil Eng.? I doubt that as he was just 17 or 18 when the Unpleasntness between the States started. No doubt well educated for the time and his local but not a Civil Engineer. Most of them came from West Point in those days. Cole says his parents wanted to send him away to school at the time he left home, his words. So that being said, I'd take anything that guy say's with a big grain of salt.
L.C.- Which came first, KCG or OAK? I remember reading (maybe Edwards, another I take with a big grain of salt) that OAK went to visit Gen. Sterling Price C.S.A.in Ark. to put pressure on him to invade Missouri.

There were more than a few in Western Mo. during the war that survived because of the flashing of Masonic signs. This was true for prisoners from both sides involving the Union and Partisan Rangers. Redlegs (from Kansas) were another matter.

et al- Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas Everyone!

I agree 100% with your statement in your first paragraph. In answer to the question which came first the K.G.C. or O.A.K. it was the K.G.C. I believe in 1863 very close to the time that Clement Vallandigham was released from P.O.W. and booted South of the Mason Dixon by Abe Lincoln. The K.G.C. was being exposed beyond expectation at that time, and there was a meeting that took place in Richmond with Jefferson Davis and others to change the name of the K.G.C. and cut ties with the chain of command of the K.G.C. forming a new one for the O.A.K. members who made the transfer. There was an internal split after that when the O.A.K. went through a similar situation in the late 1890s. I believe it was at that time that the name O.A.K. was changed again as well as trimming the fat and restructuring the society into a much more financial type of "organization" or "syndicate?" capable of controlling the masses on a global scale. Along the way things happened with perfectly good explanations....... , but I don't want to redirect this thread any further.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

History is going to be a lot harder to dig out and verify.

In more ways than one my friend!

L.C.

 

[mbb]

I will switch focus for a while and return to Ancestry.com. and forget about Jesse James. I look forward to learning about the information of misinformation in this expensive BB. KGC was real and people have indeed found mason jars full of coins or sacks of gold or whatever. They didn't really need Jesse James around to hide it all, did they? My family connection in Texas to the James's is a sideshow to this thread, but if something tangible falls in place I will share it. This Ron Pastore History Channel show makes more since as pointed out by KACE. I couldn't figure out (1) why all the guns, although it looks pretty snakey, (2) what's with the police badge on Pastore's belt? He some kind of cop? (3) the first mason jar had a pretty shiny top, not rusted away like the second one. (4) I'm from Montana boys, we don't halt digging another three feet just because winter is closing in, especially if I'm that close to a 3 X 5 treasure box. Kansas winter ain't that hostile. (5) and let's see here, 8 or 20 cowboy outlaw type guys dig a big ass hole in the ground and bury hundreds of pounds of loot...………..all before sunrise maybe? before somebody spots them? There's not an identifying marker on that hill that I could tell. SO I'm now down to waiting on getting a second look at Brewer's book, and unless someone throws a grenade with a 3 second fuse, the Dr. Rousch books on the KGC.

 

[Kace]

I will switch focus for a while and return to Ancestry.com. and forget about Jesse James. I look forward to learning about the information of misinformation in this expensive BB. KGC was real and people have indeed found mason jars full of coins or sacks of gold or whatever. They didn't really need Jesse James around to hide it all, did they? My family connection in Texas to the James's is a sideshow to this thread, but if something tangible falls in place I will share it. This Ron Pastore History Channel show makes more since as pointed out by KACE. I couldn't figure out (1) why all the guns, although it looks pretty snakey, (2) what's with the police badge on Pastore's belt? He some kind of cop? (3) the first mason jar had a pretty shiny top, not rusted away like the second one. (4) I'm from Montana boys, we don't halt digging another three feet just because winter is closing in, especially if I'm that close to a 3 X 5 treasure box. Kansas winter ain't that hostile. (5) and let's see here, 8 or 20 cowboy outlaw type guys dig a big ass hole in the ground and bury hundreds of pounds of loot...………..all before sunrise maybe? before somebody spots them? There's not an identifying marker on that hill that I could tell. SO I'm now down to waiting on getting a second look at Brewer's book, and unless someone throws a grenade with a 3 second fuse, the Dr. Rousch books on the KGC.

I hope you do share information on your James family connections!

Absolutely!! No Doubt KGC is Real!

There's has not been to my knowledge ever been anything found as far a coins in a jar, a safe full of cash or gold or anything else that had a note or instructions in it from KGC members that says anyone from that organization left it or what it was to be used for is what I should of said. Sorry.

I know a lot of people buried coins in jars and I think a lot of us have found buried jars and coins. I've just never seen or heard of anything being found with them that make them KGC without question unless someone is selling a book or looking for a TV show... Like Pastore...I forgot to mention Gannis before, because I lump him with Pastore.

The badges and guns along with the helicopter and gunshot sound effects are just Pastore trying to look tough and official. Look up that company of his.

You're correct...Who would stop that short of what they thought was a large treasure chest? Even the most basic redneck would turn the truck lights on if it was getting dark, then if there was something there, hook a chain to the hitch and Get R Out! lol! Take a look at the glass on the jar and see how clean and clear it is. And again you're right, it didn't get that cold in Kansas...I'm not far from there and if it were me and that were real... it woulda been out and open before sunrise.

These treasure hunting guys that want publicity but That Have Nothing To Show (My Grandma called them Big Hat..No Cattle) lol! make money selling books and trying to get TV and Movie deals. They have figured out that's the easier way to try and find money, because they couldn't find Big Treasure by hunting although they will try and tell others how to do what they couldn't. Which makes no sense, if they couldn't do it How can they tell others How to do it?

On that show Pastore says he doesn't know what the signs and carvings that they show mean?? What? There are carvings like that all over Central Kansas and Missouri and SWMO and I've seen a few up North by the river. You'll see guys here talking about and showing them from other states.

INCOMING!.....




You asked! lol!

My suggestion is...Before you line his pockets anymore than folks already have....Call or Email Him and Ask Him to Tell You Exactly What KGC Treasure He's Found..... Spoiler...The answer is None.

There's a fairly recently contributed to thread here on the KGC forum started by Baker, but towards the middle to the end of it there's a photo and journal documentary by a member named Barnhse I think is how he spelled it and he used Rousch's book or books. He said they were ridiculously expensive. Go back to the beginning of when he started posting and telling his story. It's worth it. He's A Super Nice Guy and You can tell he's an honest and down to earth type of man. He put a ton of work into his hunts.

If you want UnTainted info on KGC...You've got to research that for yourself and not through books that have been enhanced to sell more. There is no other way...unless you happen on a honest hunter out your way that you'd feel comfortable partnering and sharing research and field time with. Do you have historical societies out your way? Historical research libraries?

Brewer wrote a small book or pamphlet in 1994 I just saw the year and I had read it around a campfire one night years ago... its short. But to me, that was much more truthful than after Getler got involved and the next two identical books came out. He didn't publicize that those were the exact same book just different titles. More money for him that way. The first short book wasn't as action packed as the following one but those were written to make money and they did. He's made much more on the books, lectures and consulting than he's found hunting. The $200k he said he's found was in Today's Value... that could be 3-4 coins depending on what they are.

I wish I knew someone knowledgeable out West to refer you to.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So, you have "debunked/indicted" Pastore, & Brewer; is Dr. Roush next...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HE does some maps of INTEREST; are THEY from the BB...?

 

[Kace]

HE does some maps of INTEREST; are THEY from the BB...?

Why are you asking me? You know. You've made it clear you've read the book.

Kace

 

[Kace]

So, you have "debunked/indicted" Pastore, & Brewer; is Dr. Roush next...?

My opinion is...if the author of the book or star of the show can't find KGC treasure...How are they qualified to tell anyone else how to find it?

Kace

 

[franklin]

The treasure HBB says he found was an empty hole that a partner of his, Brewer claims dug up the treasure and left an empty hole. Brewer said since his partner knew the landowner, he let him go talk to him for permission to dig. The partner dug his own hole at night. Since there most likely was no treasure, the partner ran off and left the empty hole. Brewer then thought his partner stole the treasure because he went and bought a house or some other crap like he increased in a wealth. Which again is a matter of speculation. The only coins I ever saw HBB find was some coins he held in his hand and by reading blogsites all over the Internet, the posters said HBB purchased them on EBAY and then buried the coins he recovered. I have never seen any treasure he has found except by his books, lectures and commentaries on movies.

I purchased both of HBB's books and as Kace said they were identically the same story with two different titles. Sold to make money. HBB was a technical advisor for the movie, "National Treasure" and all of the story came from posters right here on Treasurenet.

He came to Danville, Va., with his partner John London from Texas. Each was paid by the History Channel for Brad Meltzer's DECODED show about $5,000 each. On the show, HBB proclaimed there is no KGC or CSA Gold within 18 miles of here. Within 20 feet of where he stood I found gold and silver coins before he even filmed the show. There is also over $8 Million in gold face value within a quarter mile of where he stood. So, so much for the great KGC Treasure hunter from Arkansas. I would not purchase his book as he does not know any more than anyone on this forum.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

BIGALOW…? LOL!

Maybe Charley Bigelow was a relative of Bam Bam Bigelow? Bam Bam whose real name was Scott, passed away in 2006 and was from New Jersey I think.

 

[franklin]

Thanks. L.C. for getting us back on topic. Sorry I veered off there with my post.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

The treasure HBB says he found was an empty hole that a partner of his, Brewer claims dug up the treasure and left an empty hole. Brewer said since his partner knew the landowner, he let him go talk to him for permission to dig. The partner dug his own hole at night. Since there most likely was no treasure, the partner ran off and left the empty hole. Brewer then thought his partner stole the treasure because he went and bought a house or some other crap like he increased in a wealth. Which again is a matter of speculation. The only coins I ever saw HBB find was some coins he held in his hand and by reading blogsites all over the Internet, the posters said HBB purchased them on EBAY and then buried the coins he recovered. I have never seen any treasure he has found except by his books, lectures and commentaries on movies.

I purchased both of HBB's books and as Kace said they were identically the same story with two different titles. Sold to make money. HBB was a technical advisor for the movie, "National Treasure" and all of the story came from posters right here on Treasurenet.

He came to Danville, Va., with his partner John London from Texas. Each was paid by the History Channel for Brad Meltzer's DECODED show about $5,000 each. On the show, HBB proclaimed there is no KGC or CSA Gold within 18 miles of here. Within 20 feet of where he stood I found gold and silver coins before he even filmed the show. There is also over $8 Million in gold face value within a quarter mile of where he stood. So, so much for the great KGC Treasure hunter from Arkansas. I would not purchase his book as he does not know any more than anyone on this forum.

I also bought them both, and I am glad I did. I gained some education about the secret society of the K.G.C., but like every other piece of information I have found, I had to sort it from the hulls and chaff. I have never read BBs first book, but I would have to buy his next one if he wrote it just to add to my collection if nothing else!

L.C.

 

[Kace]

Thanks. L.C. for getting us back on topic. Sorry I veered off there with my post.

Don't apologize for your post franklin....I debated whether to say what you did in my post and didn't... Except the Danville part, I knew you would know more about that than I did.

I just hate seeing people that are serious about searching for something buy two of the exact same thing thinking it's different information.

I'm glad you posted what you did. Folks should know what's good information from the not so good. Or if it's duplicated information.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Thanks. L.C. for getting us back on topic. Sorry I veered off there with my post.

By the time this thread is done, it will put Thomas Durrant to shame! and it will look like this! I believe it will be worth the effort.

 

[Kace]

I also bought them both, and I am glad I did. I gained some education about the secret society of the K.G.C., but like every other piece of information I have found, I had to sort it from the hulls and chaff. I have never read BBs first book, but I would have to buy his next one if he wrote it just to add to my collection if nothing else!

L.C.

You're in Luck...The Spiders Web by George Mitchell is just out and he was a good friend of Brewer's who is endorsing the book!

Kace

 

[Kace]

By the time this thread is done, it will put Thomas Durrant to shame! and it will look like this! I believe it will be worth the effort.

View attachment 1664008

HA! I agree. We will veer off but come back. It's worth it.

Here's an example of an author copying information from another author and then putting it in their books. Repeat.

2004: Bob Brewer Template


2005: Roy Roush Template:


Pretty Similar huh.

Kace