Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

[Kace]

8) I've always found these claims to be very unusual. Why were JJ's alleged second sight, astral traveling and alchemy activities brought forth in the BB? Are they just embellishments, using poetic license, sensationalism, exaggeration, etc, to bolster the legends and mystery surrounding JJ? Are they some sort of camouflaged reference to JJ's supposed Masonic activities? Are they some sort of a tongue-in-cheek outrageous joke? Or, are the anecdotes recalling JJ's "powers" supposed to be a real deal, taken seriously?

JJ's alleged mystical powers were claimed to have been taught to him early in life by one "Mother Rebecca", a black African. I remember searching years ago for any information available on the alleged black sorceress, but turned up nothing. Have any folks who have spent a lot of time on the genealogy websites found a reference to this woman? Mother Rebecca was black, and so were numerous other men in JJ's inner circle, as described later in the BB. I find this very interesting and have information on one of JJ's men - John Trammell - that I can relate later.

I believe it's sensationalism. I didn't mention Mother Rebecca because Nothing can be found on her in any records, genealogy or other types. Mysticism and alchemy was popular in 1975 when this book was published. According to the prologue it was started in 1972.

The story about John Trammell that I grew up hearing and it's Not proven is that he was the result of an affair that Robert Sallee had with one of their slave girls. Zerelda knew it, liked him and basically raised him in their home and he was a cook and house boy for them and was extremely loyal to the family.

He's not on Property or Tax records for them though as a slave and because he was supposedly born at the farm in Missouri, I 'think' he'd be younger than the 3 oldest James kids.

None of what I just said is in that book, nor can it be proven by records. Not uncommon for that to happen but can't confirm it.

Kace

 

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[Kace]

When was the BB released to the public...? Was such MYSTICISM a "trend" for the "general public" then...? Trends of "the times" MAY have "influenced" the writing styles of such authors... dunno.

1975 and yes Mysticism was popular then. I think you're right...that influenced it being put in the book.

I've never seen it prior to the BB.

Kace

 

[Kace]

Was Jesse WOODSON James born in Kentucky on April 17, 1844 and killed by Ex-Jockey Bob Ford on April 3, 1882 in St Joseph, Missouri or did he die in Granbury Texas on August 15, 1951 at 107yrs old?

In my opinion, I say neither of those scenarios matches what I have come to believe took place. Why? Because there was a bigger picture with a lot more players on the board than previously known to belong to the K.G.C. during Jesse's lifetime. Specifically, there were more alleys of opportunity offered to him that were previously unknown to be available. The idea that he died under another name is very believable to me, but I personally don't think it was ever known to anyone that repeated the fact.

Was his death faked in 1882? I say yes it was faked, but there were many players not mentioned in the book that had the most to do with it. Not to say the Governor wasn't savvy to the plan, but I doubt he was the planner. Jesse was a member of a higher order with a private agenda that you won't find a record of written down anywhere.

I don't believe there ever was a Charly Bigalow period.

September 5, 1847 Jesse Woodson James was born at the James Farm in Kearney, Missouri.

I believe those answers cover All of the first seven for me Kace. I will be very interested to hear what others say.

L.C.

No records on any of those Bigelows existing in Missouri.

Look at the Birth Year for Governor Crittenden and Jesse James... The book says they were Schoolmates in Kentucky. There's at least 15yrs difference in their ages according to records.

Kace

 

[Kace]

I'm sure they made masons and KGC at sight during the war. One of my ancestors was initiated in a military lodge that was with the 35th Mississippi Infantry. I found that record at the Grand Lodge of Mississippi. But with no primary source I cannot take serious the claim that Jesse was KGC.

Sorry for stepping out of topic here...Are there some records somewhere that state everyone that was in the KGC? I've seen where someone said All of Quantrills guys were KGC...I know that's wrong for a fact.

I also know there's Not any written records of Jesse or Frank James being Mason's....I talked to a very knowledgeable Mason just last week who's done a lot of historical research on KGC, Outlaws, Civil War and Masonic Events during that time.

There are No Written Records on either of them being Mason's, Not even at the Temple in DC. But, he did say that it's possible that any lodge wouldn't of wanted to advertise the fact they had been made at sight or were members of a lodge due to their outlaw notoriety. That made sense to me....Not to the point it's an Absolute without confirmation, but I could see where that might be the case. I hadn't thought of it that way.

So with your ancestor being initiated into a military lodge on sight, was he added later to the lodge books? How does that work? Very Cool you found him there!!

Thanks Walker,
Kace

 

[Walker Colt]

Sorry for stepping out of topic here...Are there some records somewhere that state everyone that was in the KGC? I've seen where someone said All of Quantrills guys were KGC...I know that's wrong for a fact.

I also know there's Not any written records of Jesse or Frank James being Mason's....I talked to a very knowledgeable Mason just last week who's done a lot of historical research on KGC, Outlaws, Civil War and Masonic Events during that time.

There are No Written Records on either of them being Mason's, Not even at the Temple in DC. But, he did say that it's possible that any lodge wouldn't of wanted to advertise the fact they had been made at sight or were members of a lodge due to their outlaw notoriety. That made sense to me....Not to the point it's an Absolute without confirmation, but I could see where that might be the case. I hadn't thought of it that way.

So with your ancestor being initiated into a military lodge on sight, was he added later to the lodge books? How does that work? Very Cool you found him there!!

Thanks Walker,
Kace

If Jesse isn't found in any state's Grand Lodge returns then it makes it unlikely that he was a mason but not impossible. The KGC did have membership rolls but none have been found that I'm aware of. Bickley and others were not shy when it came to naming members in the newspapers and required the castles to send the newly initiated names and dues to headquarters. The KGC held drill practice in public which they announced in newspapers and were encouraged to wear the insignia. People knew who they were. I have a list on my Facebook page of some members. The military lodges worked under dispensation and not a constitution since they were temporary. I did the research about 15 years ago so those records are somewhere in my storage. I can't remember if I found him on the military Lodge roll or the Lodge he joined after. Every year the Lodges were required to send a list of their members, when initiated to each degree, who has died and etc.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

No records on any of those Bigelows existing in Missouri.

Look at the Birth Year for Governor Crittenden and Jesse James... The book says they were Schoolmates in Kentucky. There's at least 15yrs difference in their ages according to records.

Kace

Charley Bigelow was from Texas; "google" ONE DUSTY TRACK: Fake Jesse or Real Jesse.

 

[Kace]

Charley Bigelow was from Texas; "google" ONE DUSTY TRACK: Fake Jesse or Real Jesse.

Reb, I read that article from 2015. It's pretty much an excerpt from the Black Book. Same stuff, different wording. Dalton's headstone pic is even in that article.

If you try finding him in Official Records... He Does Not Exist. His character in the story only exists in articles that repeat the book and other books that repeat the book.

If Anything At All could be found Prior to the 1930's when that name and character was first thrown out by Howk/John James then it would give another reference...but there's nothing in Any Records at all.

Have you been able to locate a copy of the book yet?

Kace

 

[Kace]

According to JJ3:

1) Thomas Coleman (Cole) Younger was JWJ's Brother In Law and also a Civil Engineer.

2) US Marshall Frank Dalton was JWJ's First Cousin

3) Hanging Judge Parker was JWJ's First Cousin

This Ends The Prologue. I repeated the #'s 2 and 3....The Cole Younger claim is on the first page of the first chapter of the book.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Reb, I read that article from 2015. It's pretty much an excerpt from the Black Book. Same stuff, different wording. Dalton's headstone pic is even in that article.

If you try finding him in Official Records... He Does Not Exist. His character in the story only exists in articles that repeat the book and other books that repeat the book.

If Anything At All could be found Prior to the 1930's when that name and character was first thrown out by Howk/John James then it would give another reference...but there's nothing in Any Records at all.

Have you been able to locate a copy of the book yet?

Kace

No on BB, already read it... BOGUS! Go the ONE DUSTY TRACK Web-site & let the owner know, that it was from the BB, etc.!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

According to JJ3:

1) Thomas Coleman (Cole) Younger was JWJ's Brother In Law and also a Civil Engineer.

2) US Marshall Frank Dalton was JWJ's First Cousin

3) Hanging Judge Parker was JWJ's First Cousin

This Ends The Prologue. I repeated the #'s 2 and 3....The Cole Younger claim is on the first page of the first chapter of the book.

Kace

ALL in the family, eh...?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

No records on any of those Bigelows existing in Missouri.

Look at the Birth Year for Governor Crittenden and Jesse James... The book says they were Schoolmates in Kentucky. There's at least 15yrs difference in their ages according to records.

Kace

https://search.ancestry.com/Places/US/Missouri/Default.aspx

 

[mbb]

I'm hoping this thread is inactive for the Christmas season. The last check with Amazon quoted $275 for the BB. It appears there's some very learned people who have followed this publication and I hope to learn about $1000000 worth of information from the viewpoints and experiences.
I had read Brewer's book and found it very intriguing, at least until he ended up in Arizona with black helicopters circling around the Superstition Mountains. Then I threw it away, but I have reordered it to try again.
I am related to the James boys so my interest in the KGC is on the rise.

 

[Kace]

I'm hoping this thread is inactive for the Christmas season. The last check with Amazon quoted $275 for the BB. It appears there's some very learned people who have followed this publication and I hope to learn about $1000000 worth of information from the viewpoints and experiences.
I had read Brewer's book and found it very intriguing, at least until he ended up in Arizona with black helicopters circling around the Superstition Mountains. Then I threw it away, but I have reordered it to try again.
I am related to the James boys so my interest in the KGC is on the rise.

Glad you're here mbb!

I hear what you're saying on some of the claims people make in books. lol!

That's actually a cheaper price on the BB than I've seen for awhile! Still too much. We will go over it here, no need to buy it.

What is your lineage to the James Family?

Kace

 

[Kace]

https://search.ancestry.com/Places/US/Missouri/Default.aspx

Hey LC...Was there something specific on the Ancestry page you posted for us to look at?

Kace

 

[Kace]

ALL in the family, eh...?

Oh, that's just a start! lol! He claims many more relatives.

Kace

 

[Kace]

No on BB, already read it... BOGUS! Go the ONE DUSTY TRACK Web-site & let the owner know, that it was from the BB, etc.!

I'm pretty sure he knows without anyone telling him.. he's that type of writer like you have back east with the troll and headless cat... And he's visited the site of the worlds largest Pecan. lol!

He describes himself as writer, photographer and human.

Gotta have something on Bigelow PRIOR to the 1930's.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Tell him, anyway... he MAY have MORE info on "TEXAS Charley"; BTW... Darrel, (back EAST) was a JOKER! His wife, Gail, was an artist... knew 'em both, well!

 

[sdcfia]

I'm hoping this thread is inactive for the Christmas season. The last check with Amazon quoted $275 for the BB. It appears there's some very learned people who have followed this publication and I hope to learn about $1000000 worth of information from the viewpoints and experiences.
I had read Brewer's book and found it very intriguing, at least until he ended up in Arizona with black helicopters circling around the Superstition Mountains. Then I threw it away, but I have reordered it to try again.
I am related to the James boys so my interest in the KGC is on the rise.

Brewer came into his KGC knowledge late in life thanks to the help of well-informed non-family members. His book was not the book he wanted, although there is some very good information in it. Most folks acknowledge that Getler did nobody any favors with his involvement. Brewer and London's "silent partner" was going to write the much-anticipated second book, including much of his own knowledge, but he died in 2010 before he could bring himself to accepting Brewer's intended premise. Too, too bad.

 

[franklin]

Brewer came into his KGC knowledge late in life thanks to the help of well-informed non-family members. His book was not the book he wanted, although there is some very good information in it. Most folks acknowledge that Getler did nobody any favors with his involvement. Brewer and London's "silent partner" was going to write the much-anticipated second book, including much of his own knowledge, but he died in 2010 before he could bring himself to accepting Brewer's intended premise. Too, too bad.

Who is the silent partner? It is not London or Brewer or Getler or are you referring to Jesse James III?

 

[mbb]

Glad you're here mbb!

I hear what you're saying on some of the claims people make in books. lol!

That's actually a cheaper price on the BB than I've seen for awhile! Still too much. We will go over it here, no need to buy it.

What is your lineage to the James Family?

Kace

My great great grandmother was married to a James. They were married from 1871-1879, but her husband James (Jim) James died young at age 24. They had 3 children and the story goes they had moved from McGargel, Texas to Archer City on a small ranch. She remarried in 1878 and her second marriage lasted about 57 years. However, I'd always heard that Jesse and Frank came to visit their sister Susie in Archer City and would visit my gggm as well, have chicken dinner out at the ranch. I actually remember her pretty well although I was very small. NOW, I find it most peculiar that the James boys sister decided to live in Archer City. It's not the scenic capital of Texas, but cattle country and mesquite and old red dirt. This was way before the oil boom days. Why did she and her husband Parmer (?) live there? She most certainly knew my gggm and the connection with the James brothers just can't be accidental. My gggm knew some secret or secrets she never divulged. Susan died about 1938 and is buried in Wichita Falls about 20 miles north of Archer. Her gravestone is very elaborate for the times. I wonder if Jesse's gold paid for the marker? He died ( or did he?) in 1882 three years after my gggm's first husband. So, between this story and Brewer and all the others that seem to be popping up daisies it has fostered my interest in the KGC. Unfortunately, the family no longer has the ranch. damn, I bet there's millions of gold coins out there.