Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

[Honest Samuel]

You cannot believe everything that you are told without pictures.

 

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A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[Rebel - KGC]

You cannot believe everything that you are told without pictures.

LOL! Like SANTA!

 

[Honest Samuel]

That is very true.

 

[cuzimloony]

I saw Dan Lowe talked about earlier in the thread, and not so flatteringly, but are you guys aware that he published the BB himself, again, in 2020, apparently just using photocopies of the original BB by Del Schrader? I have a copy in front of me now...... He also published a "part 2" called Death of the Republic where he analyses and supposedly BACKS UP some of the claims in the original BB? I haven't yet read his "Part 2," , but I am halfway through the BB, right after the part where JJ3 says that JWJ loved killing Bulshavics......
Anyhow, looks like Dan Lowe has found a way to make some money off this BB, even though all he did was photocopy it. The gift that keeps on giving, if you know how to milk it.......

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

....
Anyhow, looks like Dan Lowe has found a way to make some money off this BB, even though all he did was photocopy it. The gift that keeps on giving, if you know how to milk it.......

Indeed. 👍

Have a Good'un ☕

 

[ZeeM]

This thread will be discussing the Black Book by Del Schrader and Orvus Lee Houk aka Jesse James lll and comparing the claims and stories in it with Official Records.

Kind Of A Fun Winter Project and It Will Probably Take That Long To Go Through It...If Not Longer. lol!

Even though I started this thread, it's a joint effort with all members who have this book and records and they will be contributing to this thread from the book and records, it's very expensive to buy, so as we all go through these chapters starting with the prologue, those who don't have it, feel free to ask Any questions and if you have Records from the chapters being discussed at that time, Please post them. I know some of us have access to Official Records and Other Books that followed the BB repeating the same stuff. If this thread clears up some of the untruths and confirms some of the truths that are put out there, it's served its purpose.

I'd personally like to see it done in order of the book and after glancing at the prologue, start there and also have it as fluid as humanly possible with this book....meaning having posts with more than just an emoji or lol type stuff. The book does backtrack some so we will have to do that too when going by chapters. I guess just see how it plays out, but it would be handy for serious researchers to have it that way are my thoughts anyway.

KGC, Civil War Events, Outlaws, Militia, Aliases, Impostors, Impostors By Proxy, People Who Never Existed, Death Hoaxes, Treasure Legends, Businesses and Industry, Locations and Dates are all included so it covers many things.

One book by Frank Triplett written in 1881-1882 claiming by the author to have interviewed Jesse Woodson James' wife and mother after the shooting and said he had their blessings to write and publish the book...but who both had always denied that claim is advertised for sale for between $2,500-$6,000! It's big business to write sensational stories about the James and Youngers, regardless of the truth! The fact of that particular book is that Triplett had written the book Before the 1882 shooting in St. Joseph, Missouri and was just waiting and hoping something would happen to James to rush it to publication and be the first book out about him.

Here's A Little Background From OFFICIAL RECORDS Before The Discussion Starts Because It Gets Very Confusing Keeping Every Character In The BB Straight To Say The Least!

Robert Sallee James and Zerelda Cole James were the parents of ALEXANDER Franklin (Frank) James, Jesse WOODSON James, Susan Lavenia James Parmer and Robert Rueben James who died in infancy. Robert and Zerelda were born in Kentucky and their 4 children were All born in Clay County, Missouri.

Susan Lavenia James Parmer and her husband Allen Hazard Parmer had 6 children: Robert, Zelma, Allen, Sarah, Feta and an un-named child Parmer who died in infancy.

Alexander Franklin James and his wife Ann Ralston James had One Son: Robert Franklin James who was married twice, last time to Mae Sanborn. Robert F. James had No Children with either wife.

Jesse Woodson James and his wife, Zerelda (Zee) Mimms James had 4 children: Jesse Edwards James,Jr, Mary Susan James Barr and twin boys, Montgomery and Gould James who both died in infancy.

Mary Susan James Barr and her husband, Henry Barr had 3 sons: Lawrence, Forster and Chester Barr along with One daughter, Henrietta Barr who died in infancy. None of the boys carried the name James as a middle name and each of them grew to adulthood.

Jesse James,Jr and his wife Stella McGowan James had 4 Daughters: Lucille, Josephine, Estelle and Ethel Rose. They had No Sons which obviously means there was Never a Jesse James lll from the union of Jesse and Zee James Or Jesse Jr and Stella James.

Orvus Lee Houk, Howk, Lee Haw etc who had always had a fascination with Jesse James changed his name to Jesse James lll aka Jesse Lee James For Profit by falsely claiming to be Jesse Woodson James' Grandson and is the co author of this book along with Del Schrader.

Kace

I enjoyed reading your take on this. I am a newbie to this site, so not sure if it is ok to respond. I have the black book and got so ENRAGED reading it. This Orvus Lee Houk imposter name Jesse James 111 claimed to be Jesse Woodson James FAVORITE grandson...GRRR!!! How dare everyone just walk all over Zee his real love and the kids, Marry and Jesse Jr, not to mention the dead twins and act like it is so nice and sweet that he betrayed Zee that way! I am so mad I will leave a terrible review on that book because a REAL MAN would say NO IT IS NOT OK THAT JESSE FAKED HIS DEATH AND WALKED OUT ON HIS 2 LIVING CHILDREN AND LIED TO ZEE HIS WIFE!!!! I know though, that this J. Frank Dalton is truly Jesse Woodson james and that is perfectly shown if you look in the EYES of this man and look in the eyes of the Jesse James standing by Robert Ford, after all the Eyes are the window to the sould in addition, the signature is a PERFECT MATCH! In addition to this, look at the dates of death of the TRUE Jesse James jr. of March 26, 1951 and the death of J. Frank Dalton ie Jesse Woodson James of August 15, 1951 same year. What a jerk! Jesse was truly a coward, a POS ass to walk out on his family and two kids and leave them penniless like that!

 

[thormchammer]

Just found this, is the new BB printed in 2020 the same? If so, it’s only $45. If I get that, would it be worth it? Haven’t read the 25 pages of posts here yet, but VERY interested.

 

[TurtleisGold]

This herd of cats scattered fast. I wasted my time reading all 25 pages of this thread. Hope you all are doing well. Check out my 1st thread, posted a bunch of tree carvings. I don't care anymore and don't think I'll find it. DM if you want endless pages of notes and pictures.

 

[franklin]

From my recent work into Jesse James and his gold caches, I believe that JJ faked his death. I however do not believe that J. Frank Dalton was JJ not even in the slightest. I just could never figure out people that knew JJ all of them could come out and swear affidavits that J. Frank Dalton was Jesse James? The Caches of Gold I have located say that not only was Jesse James KGC but all of the gang members. Most of them were like philosophers. That is what they said about Cole Younger when he got out of prison. He went to Oklahoma and fought for Statehood. A nephew of JJ was the person selling the land. Frank James bought his 1/4 of a square mile for $2,777. About 160 acres. Frank James and Cole Younger were both into Shakespeare's writings. And JJ was rumored to have been brought into the KGC at a very young age about 16 years old. I will have to recover one of these gold caches maybe a few more before I decide but I am confident they will prove out to be KGC. I believe the real Jesse James died about 1935. He was under the alias of being an Uncle Jeremiah James a farmer living in Kansas.

Identity Crisis - (2004) Spring 2004 - THE SHOCKER

the-shocker.wichita.edu

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

mtDNA identified Jesse James remains​

In case you weren’t paying attention to genetic genealogy news in 1996 (or in the following years when related research was published and discussed), here’s a quick recap of the Jesse James case:

Jesse James was a famous outlaw in the United States who supposedly died in 1882—except that rumors persisted that his death was staged, and that the body buried under his name in a Nebraska cemetery wasn’t his. In 1995, his body was exhumed and DNA was recovered from two teeth (and from hair strands recovered from his original burial site).

Next up was getting a DNA sample from a known James relative and comparing all the samples. Here’s where mtDNA came in. Jesse had a sister, Susan, with whom he would have shared the exact same mtDNA signature they both received from their mother, Zerelda. As shown in the tree below (taken from this report in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, Susan had daughters for several generations, thus preserving her mtDNA, until the last in the line had a son, who also would have gotten that same mtDNA from his mom.

So that son took an mtDNA test. And guess what? His mtDNA was an exact match to the DNA samples pulled from the burial sites of Jesse James, meaning that those two individuals shared the same maternal lineage. As explained in the abstract below where this research was published, that’s about as close as it could get.

 

[franklin]

First off Jesse James was reported shot by Bob Ford in St. Joe, Missouri. His body was taken to Kearney, Missouri for burial by family. Frank James guarded the body. No such thing as Jesse James buried in Nebraska exhumed in Nebraska therefor the DNA could not possibly match.


"Jesse James was a famous outlaw in the United States who supposedly died in 1882—except that rumors persisted that his death was staged, and that the body buried under his name in a Nebraska cemetery wasn’t his. In 1995, his body was exhumed and DNA was recovered from two teeth (and from hair strands recovered from his original burial site)."

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

As usual, Frankin pushes aside factual data to promote fiction.

 

[franklin]

Where is there factual documents saying Jesse James was buried in Nebraska? Your post is fiction.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Where is there factual documents saying Jesse James was buried in Nebraska? Your post is fiction.

Reading could be your friend. You'll find that the actual DNA used to positively identify the body was recovered from Jesse's original burial site in Kearney, MO.

 

[franklin]

No DNA Test has been excepted by the family of Jesse James yet. Even the DNA Test done in Texas on J. Frank Dalton. They dug up the wrong grave.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Since the DNA provided by a family member proved it was Jesse James, no afterwards approval from the family is needed.

Of course we know that you will never let factual evidence get in the way of a "good story".

Just like when your carvings on a tree in the cemetery story was proven false.

 

[franklin]

Listen I do not like ping pong matches back and forth. You said the DNA was performed on someone buried in Nebraska. Jesse Woodson James was buried in Kearney, Missouri.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Listen I do not like ping pong matches back and forth. You said the DNA was performed on someone buried in Nebraska. Jesse Woodson James was buried in Kearney, Missouri.

Again, read the article. DNA from teeth and hair from Jesse James‘ grave in Kearney, MO was the DNA that matched the DNA from the James family member.