Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

[Bottlecapbill]

I'm no expert on the JJ gang but I'm pretty sure they didn't score as much money as everyone thinks they did. If they had, they wouldn't have had to keep on robbing. For example........2 million in gold from miners? Then they pull off another caper right after that? Sounds pretty bogus to me. Not to mention, living as outlaws or criminals usually means whatever money they did have would be squandered on booze and women most likely. lol. The saloons and hookers are the ones who ended up with most of the money.

 

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[monkeymann]

I'm no expert on the JJ gang but I'm pretty sure they didn't score as much money as everyone thinks they did. If they had, they wouldn't have had to keep on robbing. For example........2 million in gold from miners? Then they pull off another caper right after that? Sounds pretty bogus to me. Not to mention, living as outlaws or criminals usually means whatever money they did have would be squandered on booze and women most likely. lol. The saloons and hookers are the ones who ended up with most of the money.

That's something I've thought about as well. Ok...I was "Winging It" when I was typing last night, and I got one of the dates wrong. The 2-million Dollars in gold was taken in 1875. I have a book on Jesse James that lists the robberies that are suppose to be associated with him and his group/gang.
Liberty, Mo. Jan. 20, 1866..............................$72,000.00
Richmond, Mo. 1867...................................... $4000.00
Russellville, Ky. March 20, 1868.......................$14,000.00
Gallatin, Mo. December 7, 1869............................$700.00
Corydon, Iowa. June, 3, 1871............................$4000.00
Columbia, KY. April, 29, 1872............................$600.00
Kansas City Fair, Sept. 26, 1872........................$978.00
Ste. Genevieve, Mo. May 27, 1873.....................$3500.00
Iowa Train Robbery, July 21, 1873......................$2500.00
Hot Springs Stage, Jan. 15, 1874........................$2000.00
Gads Hill, Mo. Jan. 31, 1874.............................$5000.00
Corinth, Miss. ...............................................$10,000.00
Muncie, KS.....................................................$30,000.00
Huntington, W. VA. Sept. 1875...........................$10,000.00
Baxter Springs, KS. April 18, 1876.......................$3000.00
Otterville, MO. July 7, 1876................................$15,000.00
Northfield, MN. Sept. 7, 1876..............................$..........
Big Springs, WY. Sept. 18, 1877..........................$60,000.00
Glendale, MO. Oct. 8, 1879.................................$6000.00
Winston, MO. July, 15, 1881................................$4000.00
Blue Cut, Sept. 7, 1881........................................$16,000.00

TOTAL.............................................................$263,278.00

 

[Rebel - KGC]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ went to the "Robber Barons"!

 

[Bottlecapbill]

Bottlecapbill: Thanks for your input... Who will ever know how much they really ever took, buried, spent, saved? I think you've got to be right about them spending money out on the road... I wonder, though, if they probably got a fair amount of paper money that was lighter and much easier to carry. Could the fact that there was buried loot witnessed to be recovered by Frank, his several inquiries in various locations, some successful, then later, after Frank left, the use of a Rock Map And A Paper Map, by people who had obtained MAPS/INFO, and used them together in conjunction, to successfully recover CACHES in the same area that Frank had inquired of the original local landowners: Could that be proof that they did bury some of what they got, and therefore that's why so many people showed up there through the years? So if they Buried Gold There, surely they could have easily buried some elsewhere also, whatever their motive, maybe even for the cause that they had just been in the bloody Civil War over, still fighting in that way, getting money put up? Also, it's possible they enjoyed stealing. Klepto-maniacs, are known to get off on the adrenalin rush of the risk, and success makes them want to do it again and again, so if they took more than they needed to live on (which I suspect they could have done easily), then surely it would make sense that they would be caching at least some of the heavy Gold and Silver loot for later, maybe even most of it, possibly even partly, for the hopes of their known cause, they seriously hoped to make happen in the future?... Thanks, ~: CDS :~

I'll agree that some of the heavier stuff could have been left behind for a later date BUT.....is there any proof(not stories) that anyone ever did recover any stashes directly related to the James gang, and not just loot that could have been hidden by anyone in the days before secure banking? Why would Frank need a map if he was one of the guys who buried the loot? Perhaps a specific marker to know the exact spot but with nothing but time on his hands you would think he would have lived his remaining years a wealthy man, had there been much left. I would also think any pardon he received would have had a "loot" stipulation attached to it. That's just standard procedure, especially in those days. If you look at the amounts of money the gang supposedly robbed, and divide that into the number of guys in the gang, it doesn't really add up to a lot of money to be living on the lamb with. Each man would have had his share, it wouldn't have been kept in one pile. These guys were theives! Factor in that newspapers of the time were notorious for outright lying to sell papers........the lack of decent long distance communications, crooked bankers, etc etc. It all just seems far too romantic and not very logical to me.

The amount of time by horseback travelling from location to location when compared to the dates.........is just crazy. Split that amount of money among a gang of men who have to live totally on the money they rob and in most cases it doesn't seem to me they'd have been able to leave much behind. In fact they seem to return to the states they made their biggest scores repeatedly which would suggest to me that if they did bury any money, they had to keep going back for it to stay alive during the meager pickings they usually took.

I know their total haul was a lot of money in those days but if you were to go on the road today to trace their path over the course of 20 years living on your bank account I think you'd quickly see they needed to keep robbing to stay alive because living on the road is very very costly. Just my uneducated 2 cents.

 

[Sallysue]

Thats a lot of money even now days I was told there was some even buried here in Bell County Texas on Belton Lake . This is where he spent his later days what I was told. In fact my wifes uncle and his brother inherited the land he lived on. Her uncle sold his half to his brother and he wont let anyone on it . I would luv to do some mding out there.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Mornin' Rebel - KGC: Would you care to elaborate on "the Robber Barons" a little, who all they likely were, their objectives? Would like to hear more on your thoughts...

"Robber Barons"; WHITE wealthy guys who owned Railroads going WEST, etc. Ppl that "Outlaws" "raided"... BANKERS. Many names you WOULD know. OBJECTIVES...? MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$! LAND in the WEST! The FILTHY RICH!

 

[monkeymann]

monkeymann: Thanks for that list, I still think they were very possibly, burying a substantial part of it also, and it seems doubtfull to me that they were blowing a lot of bucks living extravagantly all the time, just my thoughts, everyone's are welcome... Who knows what else they may have taken, as well as the purported 2 million they probably split up and moved after that freezing cold winter stormy blizzard night?... I do see points expressed about them supposedly getting the 2 mil.,then going up to NOrthfield and getting their hides shot up pretty bad... No one is perfect including the notoriously successful and when necessary deadly James-Younger gang, A Major Miscalculation? Luck Ran Out? Fateful Destiny? Jesse being supposedly dead, and everyone buying it, would be a good way to cut their losses, retire and live off of what they had stashed, sounds very possibly like a do-able plan of the former gangs mastermind to me... Thanks, ~: CDS :~

I agree with you. I don't think the list I posted represents a "Total & Accurate" accounting of everything Jesse James and Co. were responsible for.

I also agree with you about their "Saddle Time". They spent ALOT of time in those saddles....and covered ALOT of ground.

The problem I have is, I've never read anything other than in Steve Wilsons book, that places the James Gang in the Wichita Mountains.....aside for Frank James moving there after Jesse's death. You'd think in all the book that have been written about them and their escapades, that them being in the Wichita Mt.s or in the Oklahoma area, would have been more widely accounted for.

I just don't ever see anything ever mentioned in the books I've read about Oklahoma.

Anyone else have this issue? Anyone else ever ran across any accounts of them being in Oklahoma or the Wichita Mt's....other than Steve Wilsons book, or the fact that Frank James moved there?

Also...I'd like to know which of the maps represented in Steve Wilsons Book, is considered to be an original? Not a copy, but one of the original ones that were made by Jesse or Frank...... Which one of the maps in Wilsons book is actually the OLDEST?

Anyone know?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Check with Belle Starr (Outlaw)...

 

[Sallysue]

Hey Sallysue: Yes I agree that would be a lot of money now, hope you get to look around the property someday, I'll always wish someone could prove Jesse lived in Texas, that would jive with burying money in Southern Oklahoma. Good luck, and happy hunting... Thanks for your response, ~: CDS :~

I talked to his Great grand daughter and she wrote 3 books about him. While she also did a lot of study of his life. She said he lived in Bell Falls till he died up in his 90's under a different name. She proved he fake his death up north with a DNA

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I talked to his Great grand daughter and she wrote 3 books about him. While she also did a lot of study of his life. She said he lived in Bell Falls till he died up in his 90's under a different name. She proved he fake his death up north with a DNA

Betty Duke...?

 

[Sallysue]

yes that was her

 

[Sallysue]

Contact - Jesse James' Death Hoax and Buried Treasures

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! Jesse James was ONLY ONE of his names... WHO was he REALLY...?

 

[Bottlecapbill]

Bottlecapbill: There was direct evidence (the brass bucket Jesse Inscribed; the kettle with gold bullion, gemstones, old coins, the etched copper sheet map, large keywinder watch, the Dutch oven, pick heads, wedge) and whatever else that was inside of these, that apparently got scattered (The Several Treasure Maps And Waybills), and supposedly missing after the death of Joe Hunter, who died in the 1950's, the last one to report findings, with proof, and he had plenty of legit witnesses... The thought that Frank couldn't find all he was looking for, also came from an old man named Jim Bevel, who Frank hired to go treasure hunting with him, for 3 yrs. Also Joe Hunter was not able to decode all of the symbols on the copper map, which could mean caches never found... Why would anyone need a map, is known by anyone returning after time to relocate something. I have seen things look very differently, at different times of day, but things can really change and look so much different after years, and seasons, for all the reasons... Frank was seen recovering multiple pots of gold, so he had a lot of money, did he have the chance to spend it? He sold rocks off of Jesse's grave. He left Fletcher in 1914, and then just lived about 1 year after, so any other recovery that was possible, was left to the guys who had clues... Their results, however were apparently limited, and so with treasure maps thought to be genuine, that those guys couldn't confirm the locations or find, the speculation there may still be a location that the map(s) fit, still unknown... Don't know why the Feds, weren't onto Frank's treasure hunting, Good point about the cost of living out traveling, though a dollar bought a lot back then... Don't see any problem with travel time between locations on horses, yes indeed it is all too romantic, sure they all needed money, and Jesse seemed to like to put some of it up, bury it, leave clues, make a map, and since no one knows if it was recovered, we all like to share ideas and discuss it, good points... Thanks, ~: CDS :~

No problem, thanks for the replies. Most of this stuff is way too far from me to ever be anything more than a passing interest. I just find it ironic how real hard evidence of these treasure legends was always lost a long time ago, and only exists in "books". Seems fishy to me. If I were in any of the states the gang frequented, I'd just find the main trails(they would have traveled on) from the time and start metal detecting around any and all landmarks in the area. Things like strange rock formations, water falls, bridges, that type of deal. You may get lucky. Heck you may find a non-James gang cache too!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I see 2 possibilities; ONE is known as Traveling "banks" for on-the-road basic "needs" (coins in Mason Jars); pun on MASON-"DIXIE" Line of the CONFEDERATE WAR... and TWO is bigger depositories (at first for the "Rebellion", then to the BIG BOYS for WESTERN State-Rights expansion)... ROBBER BARONS & American Robbin' Hoods! (Out-laws)...

 

[monkeymann]

So do any of you think that some or all of, "Any" Jesse James Treasure is actually buried with-in the Wichita Mt.s Wildlife Refuge?

I know that some was buried south of cement....according to what I understand.

Even though I know I can't actually dig or use a detector, I've been thinking about just taking a trip out there and spend a week taking pictures, hiking around and exploring the area.

I also want to drive to the Devils Canyon area and see what I can see there......for adventure/historical reasons mainly. I'd pay money to be able to use a detector in there......could you imagine.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hey, Rebel - KGC: A "Traveling Bank" would be nice to find, probably have some silver dollars, I guess... Then a "Depository", doesn't sound like it would be very likely to find one of them, as they probably had them where they could keep a close eye, maybe even build over them?

MANY "Traveling Banks" have already been used/found... BIG stuff MAY have already been found/used by Robber Barons, etc... the "FILTHY RICH".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Would a "Traveling Bank" be likely to be found under trail marker trees usually, or where else? Would they just have known where they were, or have a mark or sign, like a blaze on a tree? Do you think they used rock S/S? Thanks, ~: CDS :~

"Traveling Banks"...? MAINLY near the old roads/trails. Signs...? "Google" Treasure Signs by Jesse James; Treasure Trove Dreams: Jesse James. HH! Good Luck!

 

[Sallysue]

The top of this rock was laying by it. Some years ago put this tree threw the hole in it.

 

[Sallysue]

It right next to the lake The land just open up for house building.