Its End Game

[TN_Guest1523]

CAPTAIN SAM! Who sezs "Forget...? H*LL!"

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[bigscoop]

CORRECT... they are NOT related Giles or "JB" Ward.

The only way this can be determined is by having clear and precise family trees for both G. Ward and his wife, which we do not have. Obviously one of the reasons for this is due to poor record access but another reason for this is due to the extreme nature of those potential trees, as the following serves example:

"He was frequently involved in legal disputes as is evidenced through various court records. RICHARD WARD had many descendants: three known children and thirteen known grand-children,& sixty-two known great-grandchildren."

You will run into this sort of thing frequently with the Ward searches so the Ward structure was VERY expansive. The other thing you will often encounter are references to the name "Wayles". So very precise and accurate family trees are required in order to determine what may and may not have been possible.

 

[ECS]

Still, without a direct connection to Giles or J B Ward, Sarah and Joseph Ward are a detour to a longshot dead end.
It is interesting to note that the Risqué, Buford, and Hutter family trees are well defined, which Giles and J B Ward are both related.
http://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/james-beverly-ward_125837922

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The only way this can be determined is by having clear and precise family trees for both G. Ward and his wife, which we do not have. Obviously one of the reasons for this is due to poor record access but another reason for this is due to the extreme nature of those potential trees, as the following serves example:

"He was frequently involved in legal disputes as is evidenced through various court records. RICHARD WARD had many descendants: three known children and thirteen known grand-children,& sixty-two known great-grandchildren."

You will run into this sort of thing frequently with the Ward searches so the Ward structure was VERY expansive. The other thing you will often encounter are references to the name "Wayles". So very precise and accurate family trees are required in order to determine what may and may not have been possible.

WRONG! Campbell County RECORDS are VERY clear about this (Ward). Wayles RECORDS are VERY clear in regards to Thomas Jefferson, Martha Jefferson, and Sally Hemings; BOTH Martha & Sally were John Wayles' DAUGHTERS!

 

[ECS]

"Richmond"......it is here that your author identifies the general residences of some of the party and it is also here that the author identifies as being a place of his personal and important business affairs.

The first reference to Richmond is being made in the 1820's, the second in the 1860's, and what we can take away from this is simply that "some of the party and the author" held personal attachment to Richmond...

We also know, according to the original source, that the Beale papers were penned sometime prior to the publication and that in 1884, just one year prior to that publication, that we have "THE ONLY THOMAS J. BEALE OF RECORD" during the entire era residing in Jackson Ward, Richmond. No doubt that Richmond is central to the tale.

The big question concerning this "shadow family" theory is what was Ward's motive to copyright and publish a dime adventure/ treasure novel that has nothing to do with "shadow families", and then advertise and place it for sale only in Lynchburg.
Many people would have "business in Richmond", being the state capitol, especially during the 2nd Year of the Confederate War.

 

[bigscoop]

WRONG! Campbell County RECORDS are VERY clear about this (Ward). Wayles RECORDS are VERY clear in regards to Thomas Jefferson, Martha Jefferson, and Sally Hemings; BOTH Martha & Sally were John Wayles' DAUGHTERS!

Reb, we're not discussing Jefferson or Wayles, etc., we were discussing Wards.

 

[bigscoop]

The big question concerning this "shadow family" theory is what was Ward's motive to copyright and publish a dime adventure/ treasure novel that has nothing to do with "shadow families", and then advertise and place it for sale only in Lynchburg.
Many people would have "business in Richmond", being the state capitol, especially during the 2nd Year of the Confederate War.

This is all true but as for the limited publication area I believe Ward told the Harts it was due to the fire prior to any distribution plan having been formed, so not all that sure the limited distribution can be a considered factor? As for the many people having business in Richmond, I agree, which is another reason why it is highly unlikely that the Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward didn't have knowledge of the publication since he was the only individual of record at the time that held that name. As for "having nothing to do with shadow families" I believe that is just a wild guess as it is very possible that this is exactly what the publication was about. Again, did Ward know T.J. Beale? There is the real mystery at hand.....

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Reb, we're not discussing Jefferson or Wayles, etc., we were discussing Wards.

WHICH one...? WHAT do ya wanna know...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This is all true but as for the limited publication area I believe Ward told the Harts it was due to the fire prior to any distribution plan having been formed, so not all that sure the limited distribution can be a considered factor? As for the many people having business in Richmond, I agree, which is another reason why it is highly unlikely that the Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward didn't have knowledge of the publication since he was the only individual of record at the time that held that name. As for "having nothing to do with shadow families" I believe that is just a wild guess as it is very possible that this is exactly what the publication was about. Again, did Ward know T.J. Beale? There is the real mystery at hand.....

HA! Fire in Lynchburg, Va. was in 1883... Beale PAPERS Pamphlet was released in 1885...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This is all true but as for the limited publication area I believe Ward told the Harts it was due to the fire prior to any distribution plan having been formed, so not all that sure the limited distribution can be a considered factor? As for the many people having business in Richmond, I agree, which is another reason why it is highly unlikely that the Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward didn't have knowledge of the publication since he was the only individual of record at the time that held that name. As for "having nothing to do with shadow families" I believe that is just a wild guess as it is very possible that this is exactly what the publication was about. Again, did Ward know T.J. Beale? There is the real mystery at hand.....

BUT! Lynchburg, Va. was VIRGINIA State Capital, April 7-10, 1865... AND! THAT may be why Beale PAPERS Pamphlet were released ONLY in Lynchburg, Va. IF... "BT" was a CODE for CSA TREASURY - WR (Western Region, VIRGINIA), it MAYBE was released to "shake" Family Tree (RAGLAND FAMILY PAPERS) for INFO OF "INTEREST", ie... where da H*LL is the CSA TREASURY - WR! Did "JB" know TJB...? MAYBE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The only way this can be determined is by having clear and precise family trees for both G. Ward and his wife, which we do not have. Obviously one of the reasons for this is due to poor record access but another reason for this is due to the extreme nature of those potential trees, as the following serves example:

"He was frequently involved in legal disputes as is evidenced through various court records. RICHARD WARD had many descendants: three known children and thirteen known grand-children,& sixty-two known great-grandchildren."

You will run into this sort of thing frequently with the Ward searches so the Ward structure was VERY expansive. The other thing you will often encounter are references to the name "Wayles". So very precise and accurate family trees are required in order to determine what may and may not have been possible.

Richard Ward is NOT related to Giles/"JB" Ward, et al... Campbell County, Va. COURT RECORDS are available & so is
C. C. HISTORICAL SOCIETY; WHAT do you wanna know...?

 

[bigscoop]

Richard Ward is NOT related to Giles/"JB" Ward, et al... Campbell County, Va. COURT RECORDS are available & so is
C. C. HISTORICAL SOCIETY; WHAT do you wanna know...?

I want to know who Giles Ward's grandparents and parents and uncles and brothers and sisters and cousins were. Then I want to know who all of these folks married, etc., etc., etc. But what I 'd like to know most of all right now are the names of those 125/126 slaves that Jefferson inherited from the Wayles estate. Do you think you can help me out with all of this?

 

[ECS]

Giles Ward was born in Torrington, Connecticut, 1799. No known siblings.

 

[ECS]

... Again, did Ward know T.J. Beale? There is the real mystery at hand...

It is highly doubtful. The main body of the Beale story, with Beale, takes part in the 1820's. The letters from St Louis are signed with the "TJB". The Jackson Ward Alderman was born in 1827, and there exists no record of him being in Lynchburg during the 2nd Year of the Confederate War to speak with Robert Morriss.
The same applies to contacting Ward in 1884.
Charles W Button stated that his sub-editor at the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, John William Sherman, wrote the dime novel treasure story, and Ward's daughter, Adeline Ward McVeigh stated that her father wrote the pamphlet.
At the time of the pamphlet's distribution for sale in Lynchburg, it appears no one thought of the work as a true treasure story, that belief of a real treasure began when N H Hazelwood had Clayton Hart make copies of the ciphers, and brother George joined the hunt.
No one during this period considered the Beale story to be a cover story of a "shadow family" or about an Alderman from Jackson Ward, Richmond, and James Beverly Ward would no logical reason to copyright and publish a pamphlet as such.
A buffalo hunt, finding gold and silver, friendly Indians, a treasure vault with ciphers to be decoded that lead to the treasure, are all common dime novel fodder of the period.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I want to know who Giles Ward's grandparents and parents and uncles and brothers and sisters and cousins were. Then I want to know who all of these folks married, etc., etc., etc. But what I 'd like to know most of all right now are the names of those 125/126 slaves that Jefferson inherited from the Wayles estate. Do you think you can help me out with all of this?

Heh... NO!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Giles Ward was born in Torrington, Connecticut, 1799. No known siblings.

CORRECT! Giles Ward was married TWICE! With Adeline Risque (Ward)... "JB" (James Beverly) was an ONLY CHILD.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AND! Major John Ward was ALSO married twice; and, moved down to Campbell County from Albemarle County, Va. I will now focus MAINLY on Giles Ward...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Heh... NO!

HOWEVER! TJ's Monticello has "Tom" listed for BEVERLY...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

TJ's FARM BOOK has almost EVERY slave & their "duty"; NAMES...? DUNNO. Beverly/"Tom"/Pernia (Code Name), with very light-skin PROBABLY did "turn" Dark & Swarthy, during his days as a "slave"/SERVANT with Lewis & Clark, on their Corps of Discovery Expedition to the Pacific Ocean (America North West). Gotta read their journal, for more info...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

CORRECT! Giles Ward was married TWICE! With Adeline Risque (Ward)... "JB" (James Beverly) was an ONLY CHILD.

Doing R & I on Giles; "erred" that he was married twice... he WASN'T. Giles + Adeline Eliza Risque = ONE child... "JB" (aka James Beverly Ward ; DOB:01/27/1822-UNKNOWN DOD). Looking for DOD, now.