Its End Game

[bigscoop]

It seems this thread has turned course by the redundant submissions concerning the existing confusions between the identities of certain Thomas Beales/Bealls/Beals that existed during the period, ironically all of this having taken seed by way of New Orleans and the life of the Thomas Beale from Fincastle who had relocated there. And in all of this we suddenly have introduced the names, Thomas Beall/ Beal/ Beale, all of whom were actually different individuals once all of the required genealogical and military records have been thoroughly researched and compiled, some of these family names having very long and very rich military service histories.

“Captain Thomas J. Beale”....no one has yet to locate him during the period nor will they outside of the Beale Paper story. They have, however, continued to find the same alternate names and identities as the desperate search is continued. This most recent case yet surfacing again with the wrong identity of a Captain Thomas J. Beall as being the Captain TJB of the story even in face of his military record that clearly demonstrates and determines the opposite. Wrong last name, wrong locations, etc., and yet they still believe. This same type of contrary evidence exist with all of these other alternate identities as well. So why has no one found the correct Captain Thomas J. Beale yet despite every stone having been turned countless times over the years by some of the very best in the business?

Well, perhaps, this is due to our Captain Thomas J. Beale, in accordance with the original source material, was not an official military figure, but rather he was an elected civilian with an unofficial title of Captain. Had this title been of official capacity then certainly those military records of service could be located, if only sparsely. And then we have to consider the enormous genealogical resources at our access today, any yet these producing the same unsuccessful results as no Thomas J. Beale of the early effected period has ever been located despite the numerous efforts over the years by many who are the very best in the business. Are we to assume that all of these findings are somehow flawed or might we conclude that there exist something very obvious and profound here?

Perhaps our Captain Thomas J. Beale was not a man with official title within the US military and, perhaps, nor was he a man born and raised of traditional American roots and system? If he truly existed at all then these can be the only remaining circumstances permitting his ghost-like presence so perhaps the search for this man needs to take shift along these lines of supported thinking?

“Captain? New Orleans? Official military record, etc., etc., etc.” NONE of the existing evidence supports these notions of reason. Just some food for thought.

 

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[adtofca]

well this was a very long thread to read . I have reached the end of it and the game . After all this reading , the Treasure remains Illusive as always .
Uncanny how much time and thought has been wasted on this Treasure , and still no one has made a recovery of it .

 

[bigscoop]

As with any treasure tale, before there can be any thoughts of treasure there must first be the establishing to any measure of truth behind the tale, and if so, how much? Not much good to go about the countryside chasing things that might not even exist unless one is just out for the romance and exercise, which is generally the case.

 

[ECS]

...

“Captain Thomas J. Beale”....no one has yet to locate him during the period nor will they outside of the Beale Paper story...

... If he truly existed at all then these can be the only remaining circumstances permitting his ghost-like presence so perhaps the search for this man needs to take shift along these lines of supported thinking?...

With all the research on all the Thomas Beales of that period, it always comes back to the names was used as a fictional character in an adventure/treasure dime novel.
Why?
...because when the Beales are eliminated by the facts of location, events, time period, all that remains is void- nothing to support the Beale or the events in the job pamphlet ever occurred. Then the search is expanded to others outside the narrative "could have" based on miniscule references contained in the Beale Papers text, with the same result-no corroborating definitive proof of anything in the pamphlet having ever happened.
Yet the quest continues based on the slight glimmer that just maybe, just maybe there might be a slim truth contained in the story.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

With all the research on all the Thomas Beales of that period, it always comes back to the names was used as a fictional character in an adventure/treasure dime novel.
Why?
...because when the Beales are eliminated by the facts of location, events, time period, all that remains is void- nothing to support the Beale or the events in the job pamphlet ever occurred. Then the search is expanded to others outside the narrative "could have" based on miniscule references contained in the Beale Papers text, with the same result-no corroborating definitive proof of anything in the pamphlet having ever happened.
Yet the quest continues based on the slight glimmer that just maybe, just maybe there might be a slim truth contained in the story.

The Diary of William Richardson, a bit of new information . P.S. A real Diary .

 

[bigscoop]

With all the research on all the Thomas Beales of that period, it always comes back to the names was used as a fictional character in an adventure/treasure dime novel.
Why?
...because when the Beales are eliminated by the facts of location, events, time period, all that remains is void- nothing to support the Beale or the events in the job pamphlet ever occurred. Then the search is expanded to others outside the narrative "could have" based on miniscule references contained in the Beale Papers text, with the same result-no corroborating definitive proof of anything in the pamphlet having ever happened.
Yet the quest continues based on the slight glimmer that just maybe, just maybe there might be a slim truth contained in the story.

I asked you once before what your thoughts might be if it can be established that Ward knew TJB of Jackson Ward? And?

 

[ECS]

The Diary of William Richardson, a bit of new information . P.S. A real Diary .

If it does not provide a direct connexion of Thomas Beale to Robert Morriss, it is just more useless extraneous drivel.

 

[ECS]

I asked you once before what your thoughts might be if it can be established that Ward knew TJB of Jackson Ward? And?

As they say in Missouri, "SHOW ME".

 

[bigscoop]

Captain Thomas J. Beall

(Captain, Corps of Artillery, Sep. 26, 1818)
1818; in garrison at Portsmouth, N. H., 1818‑20, – and Ft. Columbus,

(Captain, 2d Infantry,
in Re-organization of Army, June 1, 1821)

N. Y., 1820‑21; on frontier duty at Sackett's Harbor, N. Y., 1821‑22, – and Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., 1822‑25; on Recruiting service, 1825‑27;

Quite the man, indeed, to hold multiple identities, multiple family and military histories, and to exist in multiple locations all at the same time. Clearly this is not your man. Nor are any of the other usual suspects for much of the same type reasons. But all of this has been made perfectly clear many-many times before. Never going to find anything new under the same old stones that have been turned over time and time again by many of the best in the business.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm glad the usual debate over all of these proposed Thomas Bealls/Beals/Beales made it into this thread because once all the smoke and mirrors are removed and the cold hard facts placed on the table we can quickly determine that none of them can be the Thomas J. Beale of the Beale papers. So where does all of this leave us?


In 1885 a pamphlet is produced that details a fabulous treasure and the story of it's making, this publication arriving some “60 years” past those narrated events. According to this story, in the 1860's someone is running about holding interviews and running about in an attempt to gather more details about the fabulous adventure and those people involved in the adventure, this being some “40 years” past those detailed events.


In the pamphlet's narration we are directed to Richmond Virginia not once, but twice, once as the author details his important business affairs in that city and a second time as he references the location of those individuals involved in the adventure. Again, this narration was published in 1885 and in 1884, just one year prior to this publication, we find the only Thomas J. Beale matching the main character's description living in Jackson Ward, Richmond, Virginia, or as it existed before being incorporated into the Richmond proper, a community “near Richmond.”


In 1884 Thomas J. Beale was a man of some influence in the Richmond proper, this being due to his title of alderman in Jackson Ward as this title singles him out as someone who served as community representative of that ward. Richmond and Lynchburg were just 90 miles apart and during the entire effected era these two locations saw routine exchange in traffic. So in this the question for many becomes, is it more naive to reason that this Thomas J. Beale held knowledge of the publication or is it more naive to assume that he didn't?

 

[adtofca]

Beal seems to have gotten around a lot . My wife would not allow that for me . heck if i take the trash out she asked where i been and why i didn't
pick up an 18 pack of Pepsi while i was out . brutal , i guess back then the women had so many kids to watch that they liked it when the husband
left on long trips , one less kid to watch .

 

[ECS]

I'm glad the usual debate over all of these proposed Thomas Bealls/Beals/Beales made it into this thread because once all the smoke and mirrors are removed and the cold hard facts placed on the table we can quickly determine that none of them can be the Thomas J. Beale of the Beale papers. So where does all of this leave us? ...

With more speculation and more flawed theories.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

With more speculation and more flawed theories.

Heh... OH NO! MR. BILL!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"SPLAT!"

 

[bigscoop]

With more speculation and more flawed theories.

Absorb that statement because you just said a mouthful and you don't even realize it.

 

[releventchair]

Captain Thomas J. Beall

(Captain, Corps of Artillery, Sep. 26, 1818)
1818; in garrison at Portsmouth, N. H., 1818‑20, – and Ft. Columbus,

(Captain, 2d Infantry,
in Re-organization of Army, June 1, 1821)

N. Y., 1820‑21; on frontier duty at Sackett's Harbor, N. Y., 1821‑22, – and Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., 1822‑25; on Recruiting service, 1825‑27;

Quite the man, indeed, to hold multiple identities, multiple family and military histories, and to exist in multiple locations all at the same time. Clearly this is not your man. Nor are any of the other usual suspects for much of the same type reasons. But all of this has been made perfectly clear many-many times before. Never going to find anything new under the same old stones that have been turned over time and time again by many of the best in the business.

That stint in the Sault seen some natives.
And cold winters.
Wonder who the Beal Ave. in Ann Arbor is named after?

 

[bigscoop]

That stint in the Sault seen some natives.
And cold winters.
Wonder who the Beal Ave. in Ann Arbor is named after?

These same old usual suspects will continue to pop up from time to time as new folks with interest continue to take interest in the mystery but just as we have witnessed again they'll eventually become exposed to the cold hard facts that eliminate all of them. Some will accept the facts while others never will. These cold hard facts can take a very long time to swallow sometimes.

 

[ECS]

I am long past trying to play pick the right Beale that fits the Beale Papers story. The consensus on these threads, even among those of use who disagree on various reasons and levels, agree, after years of research, that Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers, as presented, is a work of fiction.
Be it a cover story of another event, a real story that has been disguised to conceal a secret hidden history, a compilation of several events to create a story, or an all out fiction, it all comes down to the FACT that there exists NO collaborating evidence outside of the Beale Papers to prove that anything in the narrative in the job pamphlet ever happened.
As Bigscoop has stated, all of this has been covered over and over again, and the end result?
It gets covered over and over again as if some new great discovery will be revealed.
There are many things Bigscoop and I agree upon, the BIG difference is that he believes there is a secret history concealed in the story of the Beale Papers, while I hold the belief that it is a dime adventure /treasure novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment to be sold exclusively in the Lynchburg market.
While I may disagree with Bigscoop on some points, I have never discounted his research, nor the research of Rebel-KGC, or Franklin, and neither should anyone reading or contributing to these Beale threads.
While disagreements may be apparent, the research of those mentioned is sound, yes, has caused me to dig deeper to be able to rebuttal, and I do respect their opinions, while disagreeing them.
With that said, Laf and Crypto, you guys came on strong with claims of solved ciphers, yet have displayed a lack of knowledge surrounding many aspects of the Beale story mystery that has been discussed on these threads for many years, and continue to do so. This is why many of us doubt your claims, especially when your new discoveries are items that have been debated and discussed many times, and then discarded as irrelevant.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I am long past trying to play pick the right Beale that fits the Beale Papers story. The consensus on these threads, even among those of use who disagree on various reasons and levels, agree, after years of research, that Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers, as presented, is a work of fiction.
Be it a cover story of another event, a real story that has been disguised to conceal a secret hidden history, a compilation of several events to create a story, or an all out fiction, it all comes down to the FACT that there exists NO collaborating evidence outside of the Beale Papers to prove that anything in the narrative in the job pamphlet ever happened.
As Bigscoop has stated, all of this has been covered over and over again, and the end result?
It gets covered over and over again as if some new great discovery will be revealed.
There are many things Bigscoop and I agree upon, the BIG difference is that he believes there is a secret history concealed in the story of the Beale Papers, while I hold the belief that it is a dime adventure /treasure novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment to be sold exclusively in the Lynchburg market.
While I may disagree with Bigscoop on some points, I have never discounted his research, nor the research of Rebel-KGC, or Franklin, and neither should anyone reading or contributing to these Beale threads.
While disagreements may be apparent, the research of those mentioned is sound, yes, has caused me to dig deeper to be able to rebuttal, and I do respect their opinions, while disagreeing them.
With that said, Laf and Crypto, you guys came on strong with claims of solved ciphers, yet have displayed a lack of knowledge surrounding many aspects of the Beale story mystery that has been discussed on these threads for many years, and continue to do so. This is why many of us doubt your claims, especially when your new discoveries are items that have been debated and discussed many times, and then discarded as irrelevant.

Well "said"... ECS!

 

[bigscoop]

I am long past trying to play pick the right Beale that fits the Beale Papers story. The consensus on these threads, even among those of use who disagree on various reasons and levels, agree, after years of research, that Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers, as presented, is a work of fiction.
Be it a cover story of another event, a real story that has been disguised to conceal a secret hidden history, a compilation of several events to create a story, or an all out fiction, it all comes down to the FACT that there exists NO collaborating evidence outside of the Beale Papers to prove that anything in the narrative in the job pamphlet ever happened.
As Bigscoop has stated, all of this has been covered over and over again, and the end result?
It gets covered over and over again as if some new great discovery will be revealed.
There are many things Bigscoop and I agree upon, the BIG difference is that he believes there is a secret history concealed in the story of the Beale Papers, while I hold the belief that it is a dime adventure /treasure novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment to be sold exclusively in the Lynchburg market.
While I may disagree with Bigscoop on some points, I have never discounted his research, nor the research of Rebel-KGC, or Franklin, and neither should anyone reading or contributing to these Beale threads.
While disagreements may be apparent, the research of those mentioned is sound, yes, has caused me to dig deeper to be able to rebuttal, and I do respect their opinions, while disagreeing them.
With that said, Laf and Crypto, you guys came on strong with claims of solved ciphers, yet have displayed a lack of knowledge surrounding many aspects of the Beale story mystery that has been discussed on these threads for many years, and continue to do so. This is why many of us doubt your claims, especially when your new discoveries are items that have been debated and discussed many times, and then discarded as irrelevant.

Elaborating on what Bigscoop believes - let me say that Bigscoop believes that the Beale Papers represent a mystery that has no conclusive remedy one way or the other, and that, "the author had been lead to believe that there was something more to the tale."

Bigscoop also has good reason to believe, by way of evidence and new theory not all originating from him, that J. B. Ward knew the Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward, Richmond, Virgina. In understanding of this one only needs to consider that, "All of the people detailed in the Beale Papers were real individuals so why not Thomas J. Beale as well?"

Bigscoop simply believes that there is more to the story then that of a single author who sat down and penned with intent what he believed was a purely fictional tale.