Its End Game

[bigscoop]

Thomas J. Beale is still alive and risk of liable does not end with the effected party's death - many families have sued and won even after death. If Max G. had granted the use of his identity, as you suggest, then what about the only Thomas J. Beale fitting the exact description and the location where important business affairs were claimed to be taking place? Your story is detailing what would have been illegal activities during the period even if partially true, and if not, liable was an obvious risk for drawing such possible suspicions. If, as you believe, that Ward was the author, then by his own confession he held important business affairs in Richmond. Would you still think it pure coincidence that he references the only identifiable TJB during the period and in the very city where he conducted important business affairs? I think you're just desiring to ignore a few obvious conditions that exist no matter how they are twisted.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Lets throw a monkey wrench in to the mix and say that Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans was a half breed as PV stated in his book . Ok now we have it in a can .

Where was that, again...? Book & page.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Well aware of this one......in fact he has been the subject of lengthy debates over the years and at one time he was suspect #1.

There is no debate if all you talk about is theories not backed up by fact . "What if" is not working, to have a passage of a person named Captain Thomas J Beall on a boat from the Ohio river to New Orleans in 1816 just after a the battle of New Orleans 1815 Jan works for me to know more about Captain Beale of New Orleans and find proof of that J in his name .

Problem here is a debate about nonfactual items is just that . I have just seen this Captain Thomas J Beall as of last night and will be looking more into it in the near future as the one and only Captain Thomas J Beale of the Beale Papers .

You guys just seem to like the debate .

 

[bigscoop]

There is no debate if all you talk about is theories not backed up by fact . "What if" is not working, to have a passage of a person named Captain Thomas J Beall on a boat from the Ohio river to New Orleans in 1816 just after a the battle of New Orleans 1815 Jan works for me to know more about Captain Beale of New Orleans and find proof of that J in his name .

Problem here is a debate about nonfactual items is just that . I have just seen this Captain Thomas J Beall as of last night and will be looking more into it in the near future as the one and only Captain Thomas J Beale of the Beale Papers .

You guys just seem to like the debate .

Jean, you are still very green into many areas of the Beale papers and a lot of the research that has been getting passed over for years by some of the very best in the business. The Captain Beall you speak of has been issue/subject in these forums and many others for as long as I can remember. Your ciphers, your theory, it will always appear that you are close, so very close, and yet things will never quite workout in the end. So good luck, continue down those paths you desire and continue to hold close those cipher solutions that simply can't be.

 

[Cryptography]

Jean, you are still very green into many areas of the Beale papers and a lot of the research that has been getting passed over for years by some of the very best in the business. The Captain Beall you speak of has been issue/subject in these forums and many others for as long as I can remember. Your ciphers, your theory, it will always appear that you are close, so very close, and yet things will never quite workout in the end. So good luck, continue down those paths you desire and continue to hold close those cipher solutions that simply can't be.

Is there proof that he is the Beale from New Orleans?

 

[bigscoop]

Here is some of that old/common information regarding the Smyrna.

"The passengers of the keelboat "Symrna"? William Richardson, Treasurer of Boston; Dr. Parmelely, Boston; Major Daniel Halliday, Com. for the internal regulation of Miss. Territory; ditto Stephen Donohoe, Walter Nash; Henry Burt Esq. Trader from NY;
Major Nelson, Pennsylvania; Capt. Thos. J. Beall, Harper's Ferry. They were bound for New Orleans in 1816." (Note Beall's age at this time.)

 

[ECS]

Thomas J. Beale is still alive and risk of liable does not end with the effected party's death - many families have sued and won even after death. If Max G. had granted the use of his identity, as you suggest, then what about the only Thomas J. Beale fitting the exact description and the location where important business affairs were claimed to be taking place? Your story is detailing what would have been illegal activities during the period even if partially true, and if not, liable was an obvious risk for drawing such possible suspicions. If, as you believe, that Ward was the author, then by his own confession he held important business affairs in Richmond. Would you still think it pure coincidence that he references the only identifiable TJB during the period and in the very city where he conducted important business affairs? I think you're just desiring to ignore a few obvious conditions that exist no matter how they are twisted.

The references to Thomas Beale in the pamphlet take place in the early 1820's. Alderman Beale of Jackson Ward was born in 1827, so he could not be the Beale in the story.
Beale is not mentioned in the visit with Morriss during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
I think you are ignoring obvious conditions to twist facts and dates to fit your current pet theory.

 

[bigscoop]

The references to Thomas Beale in the pamphlet take place in the early 1820's. Alderman Beale of Jackson Ward was born in 1827, so he could not be the Beale in the story.

"Exactly!!!!!!" Now you're finally treading water........all of the above I have already elaborated on in several post in this thread. You should probably put that war-sword up for a while, let the bleeding stop before you cut yourself again. Geeezzz......

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The other objection that Ben Franklin had to German immigrants was their "swarthy complexion", which was an affront to the "purely white people" who originally settled America:

Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans was described by Vincent Nolte as a German-born international trader, as a native of Virginia, and residing in New Orleans, were he had some reputation as a fine marksmen

 

[bigscoop]

Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans was described by Vincent Nolte as a German-born international trader, as a native of Virginia, and residing in New Orleans, were he had some reputation as a fine marksmen

If he was German born, how can he be a native of Virginia? Ooopsie!......

na·tive
ˈnādiv/
noun
noun: native; plural noun: natives

• 1.
  a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not.
  "a native of Montreal"
  
  
  • a local inhabitant.
    "New York in the summer was too hot even for the natives"
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]inhabitant, resident, local; Morecitizen, national;
    aborigine, autochthon;
    formaldweller
    "a native of Rome, New York"
    
    
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]antonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]foreigner[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    
    
  • datedoffensive
    one of the original inhabitants of a country, especially a nonwhite as regarded by European colonists or travelers.
    
    
    
  • an animal or plant indigenous to a place.
    "the marigold is a native of southern Europe"
    
    
  
  
  
  

adjective
adjective: native
1.
associated with the country, region, or circumstances of a person's birth.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

If he was German born, how can he be a native of Virginia? Ooopsie!......

na·tive
ˈnādiv/
noun
noun: native; plural noun: natives

• 1.
  a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not.
  "a native of Montreal"
  
  
  • a local inhabitant.
    "New York in the summer was too hot even for the natives"
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]inhabitant, resident, local; Morecitizen, national;
    aborigine, autochthon;
    formaldweller
    "a native of Rome, New York"
    
    
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]antonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]foreigner[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    
    
  • datedoffensive
    one of the original inhabitants of a country, especially a nonwhite as regarded by European colonists or travelers.
    
    
    
  • an animal or plant indigenous to a place.
    "the marigold is a native of southern Europe"
    
    
  
  
  
  

adjective
adjective: native
1.
associated with the country, region, or circumstances of a person's birth.

Possibly why Beale then shot him in a dual .

Born of German descendant's is what I think the insult there was .

PV's book page 129-131

 

[bigscoop]

Possibly why Beale then shot him in a dual .

Born of German descendant's is what I think the insult there was .

PV's book page 129-131

There is a report that was compiled in 1838 in regards to the slave traffic that had come from the Galveston area many years prior. In that report it is noted that the slaves were brought into Sabine and then smuggled into the US from there, this allowing the smugglers to circumvent/dodge the laws on both sides since neither held jurisdiction. Sadly this report doesn't list any of those smugglers, however, if "neither held jurisdiction" then it could have only been during that period of the neutral zone, or those years preceding and encompassing the Adam's Onis Treaty, which comes right back around to that perfect chronological order of dates and events presented in other threads. But this also confirms that slaves were being smuggled, and in great volumes, into the states from the Sabine. Regardless who won possession of the neutral zone during that treaty it would then fall under a clear jurisdiction of one of the parties, both having outlawed the African slave trade. So in essence the gig was up either way. On another note, there was also a "ten year" term attached to that treaty that if unsatisfied could have rendered that treaty void. Just a few tid-bits to be tossed into the stewing pot.

May not seem like it connects in any way to your theory but I assure you that it connects to the Beale mystery, the free people of color theory, and that there exist a bit of German history here.

 

[ECS]

There is a report that was compiled in 1838 in regards to the slave traffic that had come from the Galveston area many years prior. In that report it is noted that the slaves were brought into Sabine and then smuggled into the US from there, this allowing the smugglers to circumvent/dodge the laws on both sides since neither held jurisdiction. Sadly this report doesn't list any of those smugglers, however, if "neither held jurisdiction" then it could have only been during that period of the neutral zone, or those years preceding and encompassing the Adam's Onis Treaty, which comes right back around to that perfect chronological order of dates and events presented in other threads. But this also confirms that slaves were being smuggled, and in great volumes, into the states from the Sabine. Regardless who won possession of the neutral zone during that treaty it would then fall under a clear jurisdiction of one of the parties, both having outlawed the African slave trade. So in essence the gig was up either way. On another note, there was also a "ten year" term attached to that treaty that if unsatisfied could have rendered that treaty void. Just a few tid-bits to be tossed into the stewing pot...

Those smugglers had names like Aury, Lafitte, Jim Bowie and his brothers, and James Fannin.
Sabine Lake: Focal Point of the Illegal African Slave Trade
More "tid-bits" that in all reality, have nothing whatsoever to do with the Beale Papers.

 

[ECS]

...all of the above I have already elaborated on in several post in this thread...

Not quite. As Robert Frost would tell you, sometimes the less traveled path leads to dead ends.

 

[ECS]

Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans was described by Vincent Nolte as a German-born international trader, as a native of Virginia, and residing in New Orleans, were he had some reputation as a fine marksmen

Vincent Nolte also expressed a strong dislike of Beale, as note in his book.

 

[bigscoop]

Those smugglers had names like Aury, Lafitte, Jim Bowie and his brothers, and James Fannin.
Sabine Lake: Focal Point of the Illegal African Slave Trade
More "tid-bits" that in all reality, have nothing whatsoever to do with the Beale Papers.

If you say so.... By all means grab that sword and so blindly keep swinging away!

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Here is some of that old/common information regarding the Smyrna.

"The passengers of the keelboat "Symrna"? William Richardson, Treasurer of Boston; Dr. Parmelely, Boston; Major Daniel Halliday, Com. for the internal regulation of Miss. Territory; ditto Stephen Donohoe, Walter Nash; Henry Burt Esq. Trader from NY;
Major Nelson, Pennsylvania; Capt. Thos. J. Beall, Harper's Ferry. They were bound for New Orleans in 1816." (Note Beall's age at this time.)

(Note Beall's age at this time.) ??

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Those smugglers had names like Aury, Lafitte, Jim Bowie and his brothers, and James Fannin.
Sabine Lake: Focal Point of the Illegal African Slave Trade
More "tid-bits" that in all reality, have nothing whatsoever to do with the Beale Papers.

EXCEPT... as a paper (story) submitted for ideas; Beale PAPERS Pamphlet.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Vincent Nolte also expressed a strong dislike of Beale, as note in his book.

Yes, Yes he does have a dislike for Beale . Shot in the leg by him, and he is tearing down Beale at every mention of his name .

 

[bigscoop]

(Note Beall's age at this time.) ??

That was a simple copy and past from an older thread. As I recall "the age" debate at that time was in reference to his age VS the Fincastle Beale which argued that they could not have been the same man. If Tat was still active in these forums I'm sure he could quickly elaborate as he had researched all of this in length but I no longer have all the notes on this stuff.