Its End Game

[TN_Guest1523]

Perhaps your "dog and pony show" isn't aware that "affront" in this statement carries the definition of "insult" which is to say that if Franklin were to make this statement today it would make him something of a white supremacist.

Only because political correctness eh !

And the Fact that we here have a saying by Franklin that uses the proper use of the word .

 

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[TN_Guest1523]

The other objection that Ben Franklin had to German immigrants was their "swarthy complexion", which was an affront to the "purely white people" who originally settled America:

Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Only because political correctness eh !

And the Fact that we here have a saying by Franklin that uses the proper use of the word .

And; it is...?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The other objection that Ben Franklin had to German immigrants was their "swarthy complexion", which was an affront to the "purely white people" who originally settled America:

Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.

This is of that time of the Beale Papers . Can you find these words from the proper time used for other that what is used here. Without the Race card you pulled out just then ?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I have no problem with Thomas Beale a man of any nationality, but there comes a time when you have to look at the facts Bro

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have no problem with Thomas Beale a man of any nationality, but there comes a time when you have to look at the facts Bro

Facts...

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Facts...

Since the word fact means "a real occurrence, something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed," the phrases true facts and real facts, as in The true facts of the case may never be known, would seem to be redundant. But fact has a long history of use in the sense of "an allegation of fact" or "something that is believed to be true,"

 

[bigscoop]

Swarthy, this is it in a nutshell. Pardon the race card in regards to Franklin but the remark I made was accurate, and pointed, and not directed at you. Even today most of the population generally accepts the phrase "free people of color" to mean Africans, or those with various degrees of African heritage, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. When we think of early America, say 1817 - 1885, it is only natural for one to assume that "free people of color" is always in reference to the slave related topics, this same being true of "dark and swarthy complexion". Again, nothing could be further from the truth as there were many well educated "free people of color" in the country who maintained "a dark and swarthy complexion" that were not of African blood.

I found it ironic that ECS continued to post certain links, and several times mind you, that detailed the history of Jackson Ward and it's immigrant history before it ever became Jackson Ward and yet he was still obviously confused as to the correct definition of free people of color, his constant focus always being on those with African blood, which as you know, is inaccurate.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I have no problem with Thomas Beale a man of any nationality, but there comes a time when you have to look at the facts Bro

Lets throw a monkey wrench in to the mix and say that Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans was a half breed as PV stated in his book . Ok now we have it in a can .

 

[bigscoop]

I have no problem with Thomas Beale a man of any nationality, but there comes a time when you have to look at the facts Bro

Exactly, Bro. And if you have read a couple of my other post relating to Jackson Ward (that region) and the author's directing/pointing us there then something obvious becomes apparent, of which I believe you and I are actually debating the same general point from different approaches. But the bottom line is simply this, our authoir did point us there and it is the only place in which we find a TJB.

Now all I have been asking anyone to consider is what I have posted a couple of times now. Our "author" becomes involved in 1862, some 40 years past the events of 1817-1822 and some 23 years prior to 1885 or the year of the publication, which results in the passing of, "a couple of generations." Thomas J. Beale, the only one of record, is still in Jackson Ward, Richmond, in 1884, just one year prior to the publication. And here the mystery has come full circle.

 

[bigscoop]

Lets throw a monkey wrench in to the mix and say that Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans was a half breed as PV stated in his book . Ok now we have it in a can .

Not so fast, the "J" is still lacking......and you still have debatable issue as to DOD, etc. But all is not lost if you consider something less obvious that was common in the day.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The Innis book tells of a Captain Thomas J Beall going to New Orleans on the ship Smyrna in 1816 . That is more Believable that Beale's name was spell incorrect than what you have here Bro . But if you think its worth the keys typed than go for it .

If in fact that Captain Thomas Beale did in fact use a J in his name that may be what we need to look at . From Harpers Ferry to New Orleans . 1816 just after the war . Hope to look into that one day soon .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The Innis book tells of a Captain Thomas J Beall going to New Orleans on the ship Smyrna in 1816 . That is more Believable that Beale's name was spell incorrect than what you have here Bro . But if you think its worth the keys typed than go for it .

If in fact that Captain Thomas Beale did in fact use a J in his name that may be what we need to look at . From Harpers Ferry to New Orleans . 1816 just after the war . Hope to look into that one day soon .

 

[releventchair]

Define "educated man"...

Page 76. Also notes some colors.

And for additional wards being created in time....it was for political purposes. Though the political manipulation was already altering election outcomes.
1884 Saw a negative change for blacks when Democrats won the election.

 

[releventchair]

10/2/50
https://books.google.com/books?id=W...onepage&q=Thomas J. Beale in Richmond&f=false

 

[bigscoop]

The Innis book tells of a Captain Thomas J Beall going to New Orleans on the ship Smyrna in 1816 . That is more Believable that Beale's name was spell incorrect than what you have here Bro . But if you think its worth the keys typed than go for it .

If in fact that Captain Thomas Beale did in fact use a J in his name that may be what we need to look at . From Harpers Ferry to New Orleans . 1816 just after the war . Hope to look into that one day soon .

Well aware of this one......in fact he has been the subject of lengthy debates over the years and at one time he was suspect #1.

 

[ECS]

...

I found it ironic that ECS continued to post certain links, and several times mind you, that detailed the history of Jackson Ward and it's immigrant history before it ever became Jackson Ward and yet he was still obviously confused as to the correct definition of free people of color, his constant focus always being on those with African blood, which as you know, is inaccurate...

I am well aware of the definitions of that time period.
I am also aware that you, for years have posted theory after theory in the belief that there exists a "secret hidden" story concealed in Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers...and all your previous theories with all the side
trips through history, have been fruitless.
Once again, you are engaged in this great quest to prove the secret history hidden in the fictional story contained in the job pamphlet, and as before many times, claim it is the end game.
If the story is a fictional account of something else totally unrelated to the presented story, as you have claimed many times over, it is easy to see how you have become beguiled with so many "story behind the story" theories.
You continue to pick fruit from the poisoned tree while expecting a clean harvest.

 

[ECS]

... Even today most of the population generally accepts the phrase "free people of color" to mean Africans, or those with various degrees of African heritage, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. When we think of early America, say 1817 - 1885, it is only natural for one to assume that "free people of color" is always in reference to the slave related topics, this same being true of "dark and swarthy complexion". Again, nothing could be further from the truth as there were many well educated "free people of color" in the country who maintained "a dark and swarthy complexion" that were not of African blood...

So what swarthy free people of color do you refer to in this theory?

 

[bigscoop]

Let us step back and consider a fact for a moment that, perhaps, you have not taken into account in regards to your all in the family theory. NEVER has one been allowed to use someone else's name and identity in either a true story or a work of fiction without that person's permission without risk of liable. And yet very clearly, in this publication that claims to harbor "authentic statements" and leaves to judgement the applied use of that statement, this author has used a man's exact name and identity with confidence, even going as far as to point in the direction of Richmond. Now what is this suggesting to you? So maybe you need to be asking, "Is it possible that J.B. Ward knew Thomas J. Beale of Richmond?" I mean, this is the only Thomas J. Beale of record during the period and in 1884 he was residing in Jackson Ward, Richmond, the same city where those who had accompanied TJB of prior adventure had lived near. Do you really think it all a coincidence in 1885? Perhaps you should rethink things a bit? Up to you.

 

[ECS]

Max Guggenheimer was alive and a well known businessman in Lynchburg, the others mentioned or were long dead before the 1885 publication.
Thomas Beale is mentioned and the initials TJB on the letters. Did the author use an exact name?
Richmond is mentioned but not Jackson Ward.
Coincidence has caused you to jump to conclusions.
s you once asked, "Where is the smoking gun"?