It was in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...

[Rebel - KGC]

SO! A mere lad of 4 when "Stonewall" Jackson's body was transferred by Train to Lynchburg, Va (1863) & transferred to Lexington, Va. by PACKET BOAT via the James River. At 9th Street Bridge on the CANAL here in Lynchburg, Va., there was a HUGE "Good-bye" to Gen. "Stonewall" before moving on UP-RIVER, on the JAMES... Rebels, Flags, SAD Music, etc. ALL DOCUMENTED! JWS may have been there... THEN! 1865... Lynchburg, Va. was VIRGINIA State Capital April 7th-10th; JWS was PROBABLY there. THEN! April, 1865; the SURRENDER... BUT! "Richmond Stores" from a "fallen Richmond, Va." (including CSA Treasury for WESTERN portion of Virginia) came via Railroad Train via the old TRACKS of today's Black Water Creek Hike/Bike Trail, with carvings on the BLUFFS... heading to THAXTON SWITCH (aka Thaxton, Va.), to be "off-loaded" as COFFINS of REBEL DEADS (PV). JWS, as a KID, MAY have seen or heard of it ALL. MAYBE the "GENESIS" of his books/pamphlets on TREASURES... dunno. Heh...

 

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[ECS]

So John William Sherman was 26YO when he printed the Beale Papers, had NO personal knowledge of the 2nd year of the Confederate War. and most likely only heard family stories and lore of that period, as his mother was an Otey.
Whenever one researches the characters in the Beale story, or those involved in the publishing and printing of the job pamphlet, and then on to the Hart Papers, there is an Otey behind the scenes presence.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YEP! And one Mayor of Liberty, Va, was an OTEY (John) who signed his name in a CODE... YETO or something like that; on a bunch of his Scrap-books, I think.

 

[ECS]

YEP! And one Mayor of Liberty, Va, was an OTEY (John) who signed his name in a CODE... YETO or something like that; on a bunch of his Scrap-books, I think.

In 1820, Robert Morris was in business with John B Otey.
James Beverly Ward purchased a sawmill with John W Otey in 1856.
Harriet Emmaline Buford Otey, Ward's wife, whose aunt, Lucy Mina Otey had urgent business in Richmond with CSA President Davis.
John William Sherman's mother was an Otey, and he was Pascal Buford's great grand nephew.
Clayton Hart's wife was an Otey, and his brother George introduced Pauline Innis to the Otey family, who shown her an iron box with a torn slip of numbers covered paper.
While not mentioned in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, there has been a constant "connexion" of the Otey family to those directly involved with that job pamphlet and the treasure story.

 

[franklin]

In 1820, Robert Morris was in business with John B Otey.
James Beverly Ward purchased a sawmill with John W Otey in 1856.
Harriet Emmaline Buford Otey, Ward's wife, whose aunt, Lucy Mina Otey had urgent business in Richmond with CSA President Davis.
John William Sherman's mother was an Otey, and he was Pascal Buford's great grand nephew.
Clayton Hart's wife was an Otey, and his brother George introduced Pauline Innis to the Otey family, who shown her an iron box with a torn slip of numbers covered paper.
While not mentioned in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, there has been a constant "connexion" of the Otey family to those directly involved with that job pamphlet and the treasure story.

Where have you found that Robert Morris was in business with John Buford Otey? Robert Morris was in business with James Dunnington from 1807 to 1809 in Baltimore, MD and they were partners in Lynchburg, Va for a number years. They sold the brick to Thomas Jefferson to build Poplar Forest.

 

[ECS]

Somewhere in my research that was connected to Ward's wife, Harriet Emmaline Buford Otey, that she knew Robert Morris since she was a child, and that she was born and raised four miles from Buford's Inn.
It should also be mentioned that Newton H Hazelwood was related to Clayton Hart's Otey wife.
The Risqué extended bloodline connection to those who were involved with the copyrighting, printing, and publishing of the 1885 Beale Papers pamphlet has been discussed, but there is an intertwining Otey family connection to the Beale tale that begins with Robert Morris in the 1820's and runs to the 1950's with George Hart's involvement with Pauline Innis.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

MORE about the OTEY family; Mayor of Bedford City, @ 1866, John A. Otey. ANOTHER John A. Otey (1735-1817) was CAPTAIN from Bedford County (served in the Revolutionary War)... AND! MANY Otey ppl were "connected" to VMI & CSA... Otey family Cemetery is "off" of Otey Street in Bedford, Va. INTERESTING!

 

[franklin]

Somewhere in my research that was connected to Ward's wife, Harriet Emmaline Buford Otey, that she knew Robert Morris since she was a child, and that she was born and raised four miles from Buford's Inn.
It should also be mentioned that Newton H Hazelwood was related to Clayton Hart's Otey wife.
The Risqué extended bloodline connection to those who were involved with the copyrighting, printing, and publishing of the 1885 Beale Papers pamphlet has been discussed, but there is an intertwining Otey family connection to the Beale tale that begins with Robert Morris in the 1820's and runs to the 1950's with George Hart's involvement with Pauline Innis.

The mother of James Beverly Ward's wife was raised right across the road from Buford's Tavern at the Brown House. It was an ordinary for people to stay at also. Paschal Buford's wife was the daughter of Isaac Otey and he was a Virginia State Senator. All kinds of connections between all of the players in the Beale Treasure story. James Beverly Ward's brother in law ran a tavern or ordinary at Buford's Gap the one that stood on the West side of the Gap. There is a photo of it in Edward Pollock's book, Sketchbook of Lynchburg. Another Buford had a tavern or ordinary on the East side of Buford's Gap where the spring is beside the road today. The tavern stood between US 460 and the railroad tracks. Maybe TJB was referring to this Buford's instead of Henry and Paschal Buford. That tavern may have been owned by Thomas Buford. The old Indian trail crossed near here and ran across the spurs of the Blue Ridge into Botetourt County to Brugh's Mill in Nelson County. The Brugh's Mill is a likely place for TJB and party to have stayed at. The Mill was later removed behind the Buford's Tavern and up on Roanoke Mountain and is now called Mill Mountain. They have a zoo up there. George Radar Brugh was Proprietor of the Planter's Hotel in St. Louis, MO and it was with him that Thomas Beale left the letter to be delivered to Robert Morriss in Lynchburg, Va with a ten year waiting period. The envelope had on it "To Be Delivered June, 1832" signed in small handwriting along the bottom edge Thomas J. Beale. George Radar Brugh and his traveling companion were killed at the Blackhorse Tavern on Tinker Creek in Roanoke, Virginia by Ebenezer Nelms, proprietor and a member of the TJB original party in 1817. He was wounded by James Purcell while mining the gold in the New Mexico Territory and returned home to stay in 1819. He later died falling down the stairs of the Blackhorse Tavern. Many believed he was pushed by the ghost of George Radar Brugh.

 

[ECS]

Are you connecting Ebenezer Nelms and James Purcell to the Thomas J Beale perilous adventure of the Beale Papers job pamphlet?
Is there a journal or any existing document that connects these three names?
George Radar Brugh and the Planter's Hotel in St Louis- is there existing evidence that Thomas J Beale stayed there ,AND what became of this letter? (The Planter's Hotel name is very similar to Thomas Beale's 10 Canal St hotel in New Orleans)
Has anyone ever seen this letter and reported its contents?

NOTE: The Planters Hotel in St Louis was built in 1894, while the PLANTER HOUSE was opened in 1817 by Evarist Maury in St Louis.

 

[franklin]

Are you connecting Ebenezer Nelms and James Purcell to the Thomas J Beale perilous adventure of the Beale Papers job pamphlet?
Is there a journal or any existing document that connects these three names?
George Radar Brugh and the Planter's Hotel in St Louis- is there existing evidence that Thomas J Beale stayed there ,AND what became of this letter? (The Planter's Hotel name is very similar to Thomas Beale's 10 Canal St hotel in New Orleans)
Has anyone ever seen this letter and reported its contents?

NOTE: The Planters Hotel in St Louis was built in 1894, while the PLANTER HOUSE was opened in 1817 by Evarist Maury in St Louis.

Read the book by Claudine Fulton Ellis. There were a lot of Planter Hotel's. I believe they may have had one in Richmond and Lynchburg? George Radar Brugh was proprietor of the Planter's Hotel in St. Louis, Mo. There was a portrait of him hanging in the lobby of the hotel. TJB must have paid him handomely for him to take a companion and deliver the letter personally to Robert Morriss. All though he never made it. Yes Claudine Fulton Ellis saw the letter and it was in a family Bible in the attic of the Blackhorse Tavern with about one inch of dust on top of it. She may not mention all of this in her book. I heard it first hand from her.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, the PLANTERS HOTEL in St Louis did not exist until 1894.
The PLANTER HOUSE, with Evarist Maury was opened in 1817, and if Thomas Beale stayed in St Louis, it would have been here.
There where two BLACKHORSE TAVERNs, one in Fincastle , the other in Roanoke.
To which does Claudine Fulton Ellis refer, and in whose family Bible was this letter, and did she reveal its contents?

 

[franklin]

You going by history books again. you know history books are only about thirty percent accurate. Also there are exactly three Blackhorse Taverns. one ran by the Oteys, one by the Luck's and one by the Nelms. I believe there is even a forth because there are two Blackhorse Tavern's in Roanoke. One is torn down the other is still standing and being dismantled. But anyway you can believe what you want. No history is perfect. Look at the history of the Civil War----One Sided, YES. Because it is who writes the history is what counts.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ANOTHER Planter's House in LYNCHBURG, Va.! At the "Head of Main Street", like Robert MORRIS' old Washington House/Inn... used as a HOSPITAL during the CONFEDERATE WAR; TODAY, in the general "area" of Texas Inn, on 5th Street. OTHER Hospitals from the SAME years... Washington Hotel on Church Street, & Norvell House between Main & Church. ALL near the Train Depot (RR), and James River, with a CANAL (now JEFFERSON STREET) running parallel to the JR. The old canal is now "paved over" with old stones (along the "Waterfront"). http://www.gravegarden.org/confederate-hospitals-in-lynchburg/

 

[ECS]

Read the book by Claudine Fulton Ellis. There were a lot of Planter Hotel's...George Radar Brugh was proprietor of the Planter's Hotel in St. Louis, Mo. There was a portrait of him hanging in the lobby of the hotel. TJB must have paid him handomely for him to take a companion and deliver the letter personally to Robert Morriss. All though he never made it. Yes Claudine Fulton Ellis saw the letter and it was in a family Bible in the attic of the Blackhorse Tavern with about one inch of dust on top of it. She may not mention all of this in her book. I heard it first hand from her.

George Radar Brugh is not mentioned as a proprietor of the PLANTERS HOUSE or PLANTERS HOTEL in St Louis.
Can you provide verification that his portrait hung in the lobby of either one, as neither are still standing in St Louis?
Once again, in whose Bible did Claudine Fulton Ellis claim to have seen this letter from Beale addressed to Robert Morriss?
Franklin, without actual supporting evidence, these statements can not be considered as fact, but only more Beale lore.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Just gotta read her book, THE BEALE TREASURE CODES: THE KEY; both her & franklin sat side-by-side with their books/CD's at a Bedford Historical Society "Geneal" Fair, years ago... I WAS THERE! Define "supporting evidence"; her book is good enough for me... VERY interesting.

 

[franklin]

George Radar Brugh is not mentioned as a proprietor of the PLANTERS HOUSE or PLANTERS HOTEL in St Louis.
Can you provide verification that his portrait hung in the lobby of either one, as neither are still standing in St Louis?
Once again, in whose Bible did Claudine Fulton Ellis claim to have seen this letter from Beale addressed to Robert Morriss?
Franklin, without actual supporting evidence, these statements can not be considered as fact, but only more Beale lore.

Well I know where Ebenezer Nelms buried George Radar Brugh and his companion. Claudine placed a marker where their graves are located. I have found the property owned by Ebenezer Nelms and the black cemetery on the property but not where Ebenezer is buried. His sons served in the Civil War and are buried in Roanoke, Va. Been to their graves also. Some of quotes and stories need to be checked out and I have been doing that several years. Thomas Beale also attended the wedding of Ebenezer Nelms in 1826 at the Peaks Presbyterian Church. I have been there also and encountered some ghostly experience upon trying to go up the concrete steps to the church. So you can say it is Beale Lore, I say it is just some other things that have to be checked out. The names of Beale's Party was in the back of this Bible.

 

[ECS]

... Thomas Beale also attended the wedding of Ebenezer Nelms in 1826 at the Peaks Presbyterian Church. I have been there also and encountered some ghostly experience upon trying to go up the concrete steps to the church. So you can say it is Beale Lore, I say it is just some other things that have to be checked out. The names of Beale's Party was in the back of this Bible.

Thomas Beale Sr died in New Orleans in 1820 and Thomas Beale Jr died in New Orleans in 1823, so who was the Thomas Beale that attended Nelms wedding in 1826?
...and in whose family Bible was this letter kept along with the names of the Beale Party-AND if this Bible contained the names of the Beale Party, what was the purpose of that cipher that Morriss possessed?

 

[ECS]

... George Radar Brugh was Proprietor of the Planter's Hotel in St. Louis, MO and it was with him that Thomas Beale left the letter to be delivered to Robert Morriss in Lynchburg, Va with a ten year waiting period. The envelope had on it "To Be Delivered June, 1832" signed in small handwriting along the bottom edge Thomas J. Beale. George Radar Brugh and his traveling companion were killed at the Blackhorse Tavern on Tinker Creek in Roanoke, Virginia by Ebenezer Nelms, proprietor and a member of the TJB original party in 1817. He was wounded by James Purcell while mining the gold in the New Mexico Territory and returned home to stay in 1819. He later died falling down the stairs of the Blackhorse Tavern. Many believed he was pushed by the ghost of George Radar Brugh.

There are many question marks that arise from this that make this account suspect.

In the Beale Papers, it is alluded that the "letters" sent from St Louis by Beale to Morriss were sent through the US Postal Service, but now for this letter he "hires a hotel proprietor as his personal courier", taking time from his legitimate business for this task.
There was NO PLANTER's HOTEL in St Louis, Mo, until it was built in 1894.
There was a PLANTER's HOUSE in St Louis, Mo that was built in 1817, and one investor was JBC Lucas, one of the merchants who formed the Bank of St Louis in 1816 that accepted furs as collateral.
The PLANTER's HOUSE was remodeled in 1837, during the period of 1817- 1837, Evarist Maury was owner and proprietor of the PLANTER's HOUSE- there is no mention of George Radar Brugh as having any involvement with this or any other hotel in St Louis during this time period. At what PLANTER's HOTEL did Brugh's portrait hang?
Is there a written documentation of Ebenezer Nelms killing Brugh and his companion at Roanoke's Blackhorse Tavern and a reason provided?
James Purcell's name often appears when one attempts to prove that Beale's perilous adventure actually happened outside of the pages of the job pamphlet because Zebulon Pike mentioned that Purcell live in Santa Fe in 1806 and had a pouch containing gold nuggets, and that was also mentioned in Kit Carson's memoirs- there is NO mention of Beale, a gold mine, or Nelms.
Now was is most curios about this purloined letter tale, is why this family did not just send the letter to Morriss in Lynchburg, but instead, placed in in the family Bible, bringing it out on occasion to show friends, neighbors, and anyone who inquired about this letter.
Then there is the ghost of Nelms killing Brugh by pushing him down the stairs of the Blackhorse Tavern.
What part of this doesn't sound like tall tale lore wrapped into a ghost story?

Rebel-KGC, "supporting evidence" would be documentation outside of Ellis's book and Franklin posting his sources, if they are in addition to Ellis's book.

 

[franklin]

There is nothing about the Beale Treasure that can be proven by documents or history. So why the big uproar over another tale. We have hundreds of tales that should tell you something. We have at least thirty individuals claiming they have broken the Beale Treasure Cypher Codes and that should tell you something. But what? I will not say.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, I thought we were all searching for the truth of the Beale story, not unsupported tales or lore.
There has been plenty of that already on these threads.

We have all disclaimed a certain poster who has claimed to be the only one who has solved the Beale codes while posting clippings from diaries, articles, and/or newspapers that have nothing to do with Thomas Beale or the story in the job pamphlet for the sole purpose of misleading the unwary reader into believing his claims.
Yes there are hundreds of tales, and many claims of solved ciphers, yet after 130 years since the publication by Ward, NO evidence has been found to prove the story true, and with all the cipher "solutions" NO vault or treasure has been found.

Yes, Franklin, it does tell me something.

As I have stated many times on these threads, either the Beale perilous adventure is true as written in the job pamphlet, or it is a complete work of fiction with actual incidents "borrowed" to create believability.