It was in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...

[ECS]

Franklin, documented proof would evidence outside of Ellis's book that would confirm her statements.
Both Ellis and Innis versions seem to be a continuation or an elaboration of the HART PAPERS.

How does this version hold up with the Thomas Read(instead of Thomas Beale) massacre at Overstreet Tavern by Sheriff Otey and the Luck family that you once claimed was the true story behind the Beale Papers tale?

 

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[ECS]

... How about contributing some reliable information if you have any. I don't believe we need a cheerleader on the sidelines repeating over and over it could not have happened. There is the possibility that it could have happened and that is what we are posting about.

I have contributed reliable information concerning those involved with the copyrighting, printing, publishing , advertising, and sale of Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, as well as those who complained and objected to the use of their forebears names in that dime novel job pamphlet, as well as actual events and other influences in the Beale narrative story. These are facts that can be verified.
Now you realize that there isn't anything within the Beale narrative text that can be proven to have happened, be it the perilous adventure, the stay with Morriss, the iron box and ciphers, Morriss telling the tale to an "unknown author" during the 2nd year of the Confederate War, to this author contacting Ward as agent.
Once one realizes that the story is not true as written, instead of accepting that it is a work of fiction, the search for the maybe, could be story behind the Beale story begins, and new fictions are created.
Yes, there are books written about the maybe and could be the "real" story based on items only the author of said book has seen, or being guided by the spirit of Thomas Jefferson Beale who revealed the "real" story.
These are the cheerleaders, Franklin, not I.
As I have stated many times, either the story in Ward's Beale Papers is true as written, or it is a work of fiction.
There has been NO evidence presented in 130 years since its publication to prove otherwise.

 

[franklin]

I have contributed reliable information concerning those involved with the copyrighting, printing, publishing , advertising, and sale of Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, as well as those who complained and objected to the use of their forebears names in that dime novel job pamphlet, as well as actual events and other influences in the Beale narrative story. These are facts that can be verified.
Now you realize that there isn't anything within the Beale narrative text that can be proven to have happened, be it the perilous adventure, the stay with Morriss, the iron box and ciphers, Morriss telling the tale to an "unknown author" during the 2nd year of the Confederate War, to this author contacting Ward as agent.
Once one realizes that the story is not true as written, instead of accepting that it is a work of fiction, the search for the maybe, could be story behind the Beale story begins, and new fictions are created.
Yes, there are books written about the maybe and could be the "real" story based on items only the author of said book has seen, or being guided by the spirit of Thomas Jefferson Beale who revealed the "real" story.
These are the cheerleaders, Franklin, not I.
As I have stated many times, either the story in Ward's Beale Papers is true as written, or it is a work of fiction.
There has been NO evidence presented in 130 years since its publication to prove otherwise.

Only thing is you have not produced any evidence of those people complaining about the Beale narrative? We know their names are in the Job Print Pamphlet but where is the evidence they complained and made them shut the printing press down? I do not think you have it. That would be a swell starting point of your conjecture that the Story is made up. Let us see the documentation.

Also if you can not verify that the story is in fact a fake the different roads will keep being taken until the right one is found or a complete 180 is made saying it is fake. We need facts not 10,000 times saying we are wasting our time while we are working our behinds off. It is easy to sit at home and say the story is fake don't cost you a dime. Get out there and work like the rest of us. If the story is fake prove it. I don't think you can.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, that information was posted on several of these threads, as well as Ward's daughter Adeline's remarks, along with that of Charles W Button's, and Pascal Buford's children- Are all these people close to those who copyrighted and published the job pamphlet wrong?
As for proving the story fake the major proof is that NO ONE has ever been able to prove the story is true, and the lack of documented evidence leads to the obvious conclusion, the Beale Papers is a work of fiction.
Franklin, your angry tirade against my posts does prove the Beale story in Ward's job pamphlet to be true just an exhibition of frustration of not being able to.

 

[franklin]

Franklin, that information was posted on several of these threads, as well as Ward's daughter Adeline's remarks, along with that of Charles W Button's, and Pascal Buford's children- Are all these people close to those who copyrighted and published the job pamphlet wrong?
As for proving the story fake the major proof is that NO ONE has ever been able to prove the story is true, and the lack of documented evidence leads to the obvious conclusion, the Beale Papers is a work of fiction.
Franklin, your angry tirade against my posts does prove the Beale story in Ward's job pamphlet to be true just an exhibition of frustration of not being able to.

I can see your frustration more than you can see my frustration. I enjoy researching and getting out in the field where as you are sitting behind the computer and saying over and over the same things. Like going fishing the fish get tired of the same bait while here we are throwing every kind of bait we have at catching the fish. Now who do you think is going to be successful and who is going to be frustrated?

 

[ECS]

Have I disparaged your field work or made light of your research, yet you seem to take umbrage at mine.
I really do not want to argue with you concerning whose efforts are more successful as we have approached the Beale story from very different perspectives.
I maintain the findings of my research that the story Ward presented in his copyrighted published Beale Papers is a work of fiction drawn from a mélange of sources the create the illusion of being true.
To this day, no one has truly proven that Thomas J Beale was an actual person or just a dime novel character based on the man who fought a duel with Ward's grandfather, or was Jean Lafitte or a Richmond Jackson Ward alderman.
Yes, even you my friend have held these doubts of the validity of Ward's presented story with your constant quest for the real story behind the Beale narrative story of Ward's job pamphlet or you would not have pursued the Thomas Read Massacre by Bedford county Sheriff Otey and the Luck family as the real Beale story.
Remember, insulting the messenger because you do not like the message does not prove or bolster your position, but achieves just the opposite.
I really do not understand why my research and conclusions have created such an uproar with you and a few others because they are based on actual facts and not legends, tales, or lore speculation that quite often is posted here.

 

[franklin]

Have I disparaged your field work or made light of your research, yet you seem to take umbrage at mine.
I really do not want to argue with you concerning whose efforts are more successful as we have approached the Beale story from very different perspectives.
I maintain the findings of my research that the story Ward presented in his copyrighted published Beale Papers is a work of fiction drawn from a mélange of sources the create the illusion of being true.
To this day, no one has truly proven that Thomas J Beale was an actual person or just a dime novel character based on the man who fought a duel with Ward's grandfather, or was Jean Lafitte or a Richmond Jackson Ward alderman.
Yes, even you my friend have held these doubts of the validity of Ward's presented story with your constant quest for the real story behind the Beale narrative story of Ward's job pamphlet or you would not have pursued the Thomas Read Massacre by Bedford county Sheriff Otey and the Luck family as the real Beale story.
Remember, insulting the messenger because you do not like the message does not prove or bolster your position, but achieves just the opposite.
I really do not understand why my research and conclusions have created such an uproar with you and a few others because they are based on actual facts and not legends, tales, or lore speculation that quite often is posted here.

Neither does it bolster yours. Listen I know no one has found any information to verify the Beale Treasure, yet the story is still out there. And yet, you have not given us any documented information to prove that the story is made up. I can live with my summation as long as you can live with yours. But every time some one has an idea or a new avenue of research to check out, we need information on that search. We don't need to hear you are wasting your time because everyone else has wasted their time and they have not come up with documentation or the treasure to prove the story. Like in research that is a given, we already hold on to that part of the idea while we are checking out other research and information. We can not even talk to each other about new ideas without hearing, "There is no proof to verify the story as I said we already know this but if we do not talk to each other and we do not share research we will never find the proof you want or need. So let us continue our research, we already know what you think without wading through your weeds to find the grass on the other side. Just give us a break is that too much to ask?

 

[ECS]

Franklin, those in Lynchburg who were contemporaries of the Beale Papers publication did not take the job pamphlet as a serious treasure story, nor during the time of the Hart brothers search and contact with Fabyan's Riverside Laboratories and the Friedmans, but you are aware of this.
Are you aware on how the Library of Congress classified Ward's 1885 BEALE PAPERS- fiction or non-fiction?
That answer is quite illuminating.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So... the "answer" is WHAT...?

 

[ECS]

A clue:
"To me, the pamphlet has all the earmarks of a fake...no evidence save the word of the unknown author of the pamphlet that he ever had the papers".
Dr Clarence Williams, Director of Research, LIBRARY OF CONGRESS

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ah, SO!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And YET! R & I still goes on, for ME... WHAT IF! It was ALL an APRIL FOOL'S JOKE...? INTERESTING "take": April 1, 2013 4:01 AM

 

[franklin]

Franklin, those in Lynchburg who were contemporaries of the Beale Papers publication did not take the job pamphlet as a serious treasure story, nor during the time of the Hart brothers search and contact with Fabyan's Riverside Laboratories and the Friedmans, but you are aware of this.
Are you aware on how the Library of Congress classified Ward's 1885 BEALE PAPERS- fiction or non-fiction?
That answer is quite illuminating.

Well I have never seen it classified. I only know on the spread name of the title, It clearly states "Authentic" statements of a treasure buried in Bedford County, Va and has never been found. Keep saying it is fiction while we are trying to prove it is a real treasure. But your comments tend to bore the hell out of us trying to get to talk to each other about solving this mystery. Go bother bookaroo for a while please.

 

[ECS]

While we are on the subject of "authentic statements":
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/beale-codes/507635-proven-myself-beale-treasure-story-made-up.html

 

[franklin]

While we are on the subject of "authentic statements":
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/beale-codes/507635-proven-myself-beale-treasure-story-made-up.html

You are like a cat on a hot tin roof. When you are definitely proven wrong you want to attack from another angle. The story is fifty percent true and fifty percent false. As we can not confirm definitely that the story is true neither have you proven that the story is false. So it is a stalemate and I will argue with you no longer. Go bother someone else.

 

[ECS]

When have I been proven wrong?
You on the otherhand go back and forth concerning the possibility of the story being true or just a work of fiction.
The conspicuous lack of any outside of the Beale Papers story collaborating evidence provides a tacit understanding that the Beale story is a work of fiction.

 

[franklin]

Why then do you keep messing around with something that is a work of fiction? Do not we have a God given right to change our minds or do you want us to close our minds and our thoughts and just see everything your way? I think not. Get a life.

 

[ECS]

Why then do you keep messing around with something that is a work of fiction?...

Probably the same reason why you keep messing around to prove a dime novel work of fiction is true.

 

[ECS]

... The Brugh's Mill is a likely place for TJB and party to have stayed at. The Mill was later removed behind the Buford's Tavern and up on Roanoke Mountain and is now called Mill Mountain. They have a zoo up there. George Radar Brugh was Proprietor of the Planter's Hotel in St. Louis, MO and it was with him that Thomas Beale left the letter to be delivered to Robert Morriss in Lynchburg, Va with a ten year waiting period. The envelope had on it "To Be Delivered June, 1832" signed in small handwriting along the bottom edge Thomas J. Beale. George Radar Brugh and his traveling companion were killed at the Blackhorse Tavern on Tinker Creek in Roanoke, Virginia by Ebenezer Nelms, proprietor and a member of the TJB original party in 1817. He was wounded by James Purcell while mining the gold in the New Mexico Territory and returned home to stay in 1819. He later died falling down the stairs of the Blackhorse Tavern. Many believed he was pushed by the ghost of George Radar Brugh.

Was this also claimed to be connected to the Thomas Read, as Beale, version when a courier informed Sheriff Otey of gold hidden in wagons with false bottoms, who, with the Luck's, massacred Read's Party and then hid the gold?
It has been mentioned that the gold was 60% and was smelted down into bars with a sand cast box method. What is the origin of this?

There are far too many alternative stories behind the Beale story in the job shop pamphlet- either the Beale story is true, or it was " spun from the imagination of Mr Ward" (Lt Thomas Fawcett).

 

[franklin]

ECS, We are here checking out all possibilites while you sir just keep objecting. What is it with you don't you have something else to do than to stand guard over nothing but a fake story.