Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[PotBelly Jim]

Well it does say at the top Unofficial Document

Babymick1

Sorry Brother Mick,

The "unofficial" mark is displayed on all records from the Maricopa Co. Recorder that are retrieved online. The filename, though, indicates the year and book it's recorded in, so anyone can search the Recorder's files and find said doc.

I'm not interested in the claim itself, only the names...and what appears to be somebody's interest in said names, as it appears they were underlined in the original document.

Like I said, way down in the weeds, not of much interest in general. Just fishing.

BTW, I think I know the specific area north of the Salt you have made some gemstone finds in...the Peridot is a bit of an outlier, though...did you find the Peridot there, or somewhere to the east? Best, Jim

 

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[wrmickel1]

Pot belly

East alittle yonder, I'm interested in were the claim was located, not the names, was the claim north of the Black Queen, Mammoth, Bulldog, The Wasp, Bluebird ect.

just a guess

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Pot belly

East alittle yonder, I'm interested in were the claim was located, not the names, was the claim north of the Black Queen, Mammoth, Bulldog, The Wasp, Bluebird ect.

just a guess

babymick1

if its the one i think it is i have been to it

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Yes, it's north of Goldfield as far as I can tell.

How far east is a little yonder?

Did you find the source of your finds SW of 4 peaks?

Best, Jim

 

[markmar]

Dave

I post a modified pic ( for obvious reasons ) of the place where is the roofless two room stone ruin . The region of the ruin is at the red dot . That mountain side , is the only way you can approach the ruins . From the dot , you can see a zig-zag path which runs downward to the right and dissapeas in the rocky country .
I believe , nobody would think to go there and for this the stone ruin place remains hidden . The picture was taken from about one mile afar from the dot , so imagine how big the rocks are .

 

[Doc4261]

Dave

I post a modified pic ( for obvious reasons ) of the place where is the roofless two room stone ruin . The region of the ruin is at the red dot . That mountain side , is the only way you can approach the ruins . From the dot , you can see a zig-zag path which runs downward to the right and dissapeas in the rocky country .
I believe , nobody would think to go there and for this the stone ruin place remains hidden . The picture was taken from about one mile afar from the dot , so imagine how big the rocks are .

View attachment 1538356

where I believe the ldm is about 3000-3500 ft away.

 

[markmar]

where I believe the ldm is about 3000-3500 ft away.

Doc

From where ?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

if its the one i think it is i have been to it

Dave, it's not far into the mts from 87...always wondered about it, was originally located about 4 months after Waltz's death...someone else, probably several people, have run this down as well, as noted by all the underlining done on the original document and the one I posted earlier...here's the original claim document, or at least it appears to be the first time it was recorded:

View attachment 1538429

Edit: Also Dave, the reason I even bring it up, it was filed by someone who might be the guy reportedly with Waltz at his death, and seems to be the same guy Jim Bark saw hand crushing what he seemed to believe was ore from under Waltz's bed...I think others on the forum would know a lot more about this subject than I do...I may be wrong about who this guy was (G. O. Roberds)

 

[markmar]

anyone any good at translating old cursive writing?.....it gives me a headache...lol

Dave

I post the first paragraph till the signatures :

" ...North-westerly 1500 ft to a monument of stones . The corners are marked with stone monuments . The claim is in Superstition Mining District , Maricopa County , Arizona . Lies one mile south of Cotonwood Springs and one and three fourths miles north-westerly of the Mammoth mine . The Cotonwood Springs wagon road runs over the south-easterly quarter of claim and shall be known as the Gold Spaw mine .Located Oct 30 at 1893 "

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Dave

I post the first paragraph till the signatures :

" ...North-westerly 1500 ft to a monument of stones . The corners are marked with stone monuments . The claim is in Superstition Mining District , Maricopa County , Arizona . Lies one mile south of Cotonwood Springs and one and three fourths miles north-westerly of the Mammoth mine . The Cotonwood Springs wagon road runs over the south-easterly quarter of claim and shall be known as the Gold Spaw mine .Located Oct 30 at 1893 "

Marius, thanks for the transcription, but just for clarity, you are referring to the claim that is one entry before the one I was referring to...look at the one below it...and the claim I just posted...they are for 3 different mines in a different district...If you wish, however, I can retrieve and post the full text of the claim you are referring to if you would like to see the whole thing...Best, Jim

 

[azdave35]

Dave, it's not far into the mts from 87...always wondered about it, was originally located about 4 months after Waltz's death...someone else, probably several people, have run this down as well, as noted by all the underlining done on the original document and the one I posted earlier...here's the original claim document, or at least it appears to be the first time it was recorded:

View attachment 1538429

Edit: Also Dave, the reason I even bring it up, it was filed by someone who might be the guy reportedly with Waltz at his death, and seems to be the same guy Jim Bark saw hand crushing what he seemed to believe was ore from under Waltz's bed...I think others on the forum would know a lot more about this subject than I do...I may be wrong about who this guy was (G. O. Roberds)

the roberts that was involved with waltz died a month after waltz so it isnt the same guy

 

[PotBelly Jim]

the roberts that was involved with waltz died a month after waltz so it isnt the same guy

That's the problem I'm having Dave...I can't find any record of the person you're referring to...Gideon Roberts in AZ in 1891...it's been driving me nuts...I've found some "possibles", but nothing even close to being solid evidence...no newspaper reports of his death, no census records, no land transactions, no taxes, no LDS records, nothing...I was hoping someone else on the forum would know something...the only guy I've found that's close is G. O. Roberds, who seems to be an associate of the family, and Cubfan posted a letter from Jim Bark that refers to a "Gid Roberts" who was "an old prospecting friend of the family"...the G.O. Roberds in the claims I posted appears to have lived until at least 1899.

 

[azdave35]

That's the problem I'm having Dave...I can't find any record of the person you're referring to...Gideon Roberts in AZ in 1891...it's been driving me nuts...I've found some "possibles", but nothing even close to being solid evidence...no newspaper reports of his death, no census records, no land transactions, no taxes, no LDS records, nothing...I was hoping someone else on the forum would know something...the only guy I've found that's close is G. O. Roberds, who seems to be an associate of the family, and Cubfan posted a letter from Jim Bark that refers to a "Gid Roberts" who was "an old prospecting friend of the family"...the G.O. Roberds in the claims I posted appears to have lived until at least 1899.

dont be too hard on yourself jim..i dont think anyone has found much info on him either

 

[cactusjumper]

That's the problem I'm having Dave...I can't find any record of the person you're referring to...Gideon Roberts in AZ in 1891...it's been driving me nuts...I've found some "possibles", but nothing even close to being solid evidence...no newspaper reports of his death, no census records, no land transactions, no taxes, no LDS records, nothing...I was hoping someone else on the forum would know something...the only guy I've found that's close is G. O. Roberds, who seems to be an associate of the family, and Cubfan posted a letter from Jim Bark that refers to a "Gid Roberts" who was "an old prospecting friend of the family"...the G.O. Roberds in the claims I posted appears to have lived until at least 1899.

Jim,

When you get started trying to unravel some of these stories, you will run into more dead ends than seems logical. We have done a lot of the legwork when it comes to the genealogy of the folks originally said to be involved in the life and death of Jacob Waltz. Garry (novice) did a lot of work on creating a great deal of the legitimate evidence and placing it all on a great site which, unfortunately, is down right now. Getting in touch with Garry (novice) or Paul, (Cubfan64) would be a couple of great sources for some unvarnished truth on the legend. I used to know a great deal of those truths, but my mind is not so good anymore. Some would say it never was, but others would opine differently. That being said, I do have a great deal of research material, so don't hesitate to ask me. Need to keep my mind active. Just lost my sister, so I'm trying not to do much thinking.

Take care,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Jim

IMO , the claims from that document are not connected to the LDM region .

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Jim,

When you get started trying to unravel some of these stories, you will run into more dead ends than seems logical. We have done a lot of the legwork when it comes to the genealogy of the folks originally said to be involved in the life and death of Jacob Waltz. Garry (novice) did a lot of work on creating a great deal of the legitimate evidence and placing it all on a great site which, unfortunately, is down right now. Getting in touch with Garry (novice) or Paul, (Cubfan64) would be a couple of great sources for some unvarnished truth on the legend. I used to know a great deal of those truths, but my mind is not so good anymore. Some would say it never was, but others would opine differently. That being said, I do have a great deal of research material, so don't hesitate to ask me. Need to keep my mind active. Just lost my sister, so I'm trying not to do much thinking.

Take care,

Joe

Joe, I'm sorry...my heartfelt condolences. I will pray for her and your family. Best regards, Jim

 

[deducer]

Joe, my condolences to you and your family.

 

[azdave35]

Jim,

When you get started trying to unravel some of these stories, you will run into more dead ends than seems logical. We have done a lot of the legwork when it comes to the genealogy of the folks originally said to be involved in the life and death of Jacob Waltz. Garry (novice) did a lot of work on creating a great deal of the legitimate evidence and placing it all on a great site which, unfortunately, is down right now. Getting in touch with Garry (novice) or Paul, (Cubfan64) would be a couple of great sources for some unvarnished truth on the legend. I used to know a great deal of those truths, but my mind is not so good anymore. Some would say it never was, but others would opine differently. That being said, I do have a great deal of research material, so don't hesitate to ask me. Need to keep my mind active. Just lost my sister, so I'm trying not to do much thinking.

Take care,

Joe

sorry for your loss joe...

 

[Simon1]

Joe, I too, sorry for your loss.

 

[wrmickel1]

Sorry to here that Joe, Take care!