Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[sgtfda]

Bill

A good source told me the Pit mine is in the SNAP claim under the SKYBLUE .

I don't think so. The Sky Blue is on the mountain side facing Rodgers. Many refer to it as the Ore Cart Mine.

 

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[cactusjumper]

Bill

A good source told me the Pit mine is in the SNAP claim under the SKYBLUE .

Marius,

Once I posted all of the information on the Pit Mine, and Dave gave a few talks on it, a lot of people who knew the facts started spreading stories trying to turn others away from the possibility of the Pit Mine being the LDM. I may never be forgiven for those postings. Believe whatever makes you feel good.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Marius,

Once I posted all of the information on the Pit Mine, and Dave gave a few talks on it, a lot of people who knew the facts started spreading stories trying to turn others away from the possibility of the Pit Mine being the LDM. I may never be forgiven for those postings. Believe whatever makes you feel good.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe

I could say how the Pit mine has a possibility to be the LDM , but I can't . Is not a matter of what I believe , but of what I know .
Nothing makes me feel better than the Truth .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

I could say how the Pit mine has a possibility to be the LDM , but I can't . Is not a matter of what I believe , but of what I know .
Nothing makes me feel better than the Truth .

Marius,

Sounds good to me. Nice to have such an old puzzle solved. So now that you know the answer, what will you do with the information?

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Joe

I could say how the Pit mine has a possibility to be the LDM , but I can't . Is not a matter of what I believe , but of what I know .
Nothing makes me feel better than the Truth .

Those are strong words Marius, so to be clear I have to assume that means you have uncovered the LDM, have seen and touched the gold ore vein with your own hands and have compared the analysis to that of the gold and matrix found in the matchbox (assuming of course that THAT gold ore came from the LDM).

If you have done those things it's well deserving of congratulations, but if not I would suggest you are still in the "I believe" category.

 

[cactusjumper]

Those are strong words Marius, so to be clear I have to assume that means you have uncovered the LDM, have seen and touched the gold ore vein with your own hands and have compared the analysis to that of the gold and matrix found in the matchbox (assuming of course that THAT gold ore came from the LDM).

If you have done those things it's well deserving of congratulations, but if not I would suggest you are still in the "I believe" category.

Paul,

Is not what he believes, but what he knows. Sounds like me when I was younger......and rasher.

Take care,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Those are strong words Marius, so to be clear I have to assume that means you have uncovered the LDM, have seen and touched the gold ore vein with your own hands and have compared the analysis to that of the gold and matrix found in the matchbox (assuming of course that THAT gold ore came from the LDM).

If you have done those things it's well deserving of congratulations, but if not I would suggest you are still in the "I believe" category.

Ok , I am in the " I believe " category .

 

[Cubfan64]

Ok , I am in the " I believe " category .

Nothing at all wrong with that Marius - I can assure you that you have LOTS of company here in the "I believe" category . Hopefully someday someone will be able to prove they truly KNOW, although if history has proven anything to me it's that those who KNOW about a treasure keep it very quiet .

 

[JohnWhite]

Nothing at all wrong with that Marius - I can assure you that you have LOTS of company here in the "I believe" category . Hopefully someday someone will be able to prove they truly KNOW, although if history has proven anything to me it's that those who KNOW about a treasure keep it very quiet .

I know nothing...Nothing...LOL

 

[393stroker]

Map

Matthew had posted this claim map previously, and seeing as how the claim locations shown have been public for quite a long time I would think many have used it to explore that area in the hopes of finding something worthwhile. So what you say is certainly possible.

View attachment 1519804

If you want to take the time to do so, copy the claim outlines to a modern topo and/or GE views and take those along with you when you get your group together.
Should help with understanding what is what, when and if you can find the "pit mine" or any other nearby diggings out there.
Personally, I still don't believe this pit mine is the LDM. Partly because there was no mention of silver ore in the stories that Waltz or his closest associates passed on.
Nor was there any description of a cache located so deep in any mine, silver or gold, that it would take a group of men three years of work and all that equipment to recover it. Waltz only mentioned that one cache was in the "rat hole" tunnel down below the pit, and just behind the partial wall of rocks that he had concealed it with. The other two caches could be watched over from his mine, so that negates the "deep cache" theory as well IMO. If there was any connection between that "pit mine" and Waltz, I would still suggest that it may have been the mine that Waltz and Wieser helped Peralta with in the earlier chapter of that saga, with the true "LDM" being the one they or he found the Mexicans working elsewhere in the range at a later date. Having killed the Mexicans, and perhaps thinking they may have been related to their former partner, it makes sense that he might be reluctant to file a legal claim on his gold mine for that reason alone IMO.

The map is different in Glovers book

 

[Doc4261]

The map is different in Glovers book

Cant find the mine without finding the cache , cant find the cache without the mine, if he really did bury the mine with logs, then it is my believe he buried it in the tailings pile as why would anyone dig there. its what I have come to believe of the enigma. the pit mine isn't the ldm is my take. "cant get to it from above or below" pit mine doenst fit having to come in from the side.

 

[cactusjumper]

Doc,

To my great surprise, I asked the man who found it, if the mine was as Holmes wrote Waltz had buried it. He told me that it was sealed, as described. Other than that, I don't believe much that was in the Holmes Manuscript. Can't help but wonder how Holmes really came by that part of the story.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Doc4261]

View attachment 1523732So you don't believe the Reed story of him and his dad uncoving the ldm. I tend to believe that story as it fits where I believe it is . . I am going to rule out each of the circles on the H/p starting at the bottom and working my way up. I believe the one uptop is the ldm but is the hardest to get to. got to prove im right on the map first before making the hardest trek.

 

[cactusjumper]

View attachment 1523732So you don't believe the Reed story of him and his dad uncoving the ldm. I tend to believe that story as it fits where I believe it is . . I am going to rule out each of the circles on the H/p starting at the bottom and working my way up. I believe the one uptop is the ldm but is the hardest to get to. got to prove im right on the map first before making the hardest trek.

Doc,

I don't disbelieve the story, but I'm a little cautious about it. You have to read the story by Clay Worst and his involvement with Reed. If I go along with his story, it doesn't rule out the area of the Pit Mine. It's true they ended up north of Weaver's Needle, but the search kind of fell apart there. Not hard to loose your way in those mountains, especially after being gone for a number of years. Countless stories like that.......

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Not to speak for anyone but myself, but I have strong doubts about the claims of Abe Reed. I have heard from someone who knew Reed, that even if Reed had known Jacob Waltz, it was when Reed was a mere child. Further, his story is describing a dry placer, not a lode mine, and the devil in the details, even the robberies of the Dutchman by Reed's father are sketchy. Waltz was known as a man not to be fooled with, it's hard to imagine he would so easily be caught off guard and robbed. If such a robbery really happened, it would be very likely that either the robber or Waltz or both would still be there, turning into dust.

I would highly recommend to take the Reed story with the proverbial dose of salt, as it appears that he was really just trying to insinuate himself into the legend, and establish some kind of claim on the mine when someone else would find it.

Please do continue,

 

[Cubfan64]

Not to speak for anyone but myself, but I have strong doubts about the claims of Abe Reed. I have heard from someone who knew Reed, that even if Reed had known Jacob Waltz, it was when Reed was a mere child. Further, his story is describing a dry placer, not a lode mine, and the devil in the details, even the robberies of the Dutchman by Reed's father are sketchy. Waltz was known as a man not to be fooled with, it's hard to imagine he would so easily be caught off guard and robbed. If such a robbery really happened, it would be very likely that either the robber or Waltz or both would still be there, turning into dust.

I would highly recommend to take the Reed story with the proverbial dose of salt, as it appears that he was really just trying to insinuate himself into the legend, and establish some kind of claim on the mine when someone else would find it.

Please do continue,

Just a quick correction Oro so nobody gets confused. You meant to say JOHN Reed, not ABE. Abe Reid was a prospector among other things in the Superstitions during the 20's to 50's I think (or somewhere in that range.) I know you know the difference and just made a mistake but didn't want anyone to try to dig into the John Reed story by tracking down Abe .

 

[somehiker]

Just a quick correction Oro so nobody gets confused. You meant to say JOHN Reed, not ABE. Abe Reid was a prospector among other things in the Superstitions during the 20's to 50's I think (or somewhere in that range.) I know you know the difference and just made a mistake but didn't want anyone to try to dig into the John Reed story by tracking down Abe .

Clay's article on John Reed is available on Garry Cundiff's website here....http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...ark/John Reed Story and the Lost Dutchman.pdf

 

[Oroblanco]

Just a quick correction Oro so nobody gets confused. You meant to say JOHN Reed, not ABE. Abe Reid was a prospector among other things in the Superstitions during the 20's to 50's I think (or somewhere in that range.) I know you know the difference and just made a mistake but didn't want anyone to try to dig into the John Reed story by tracking down Abe .

Thanks for the correction Cubfan, I will correct that post after it has been there a while so everyone knows what is being referred to.

Please do continue:

 

[markmar]

Not to speak for anyone but myself, but I have strong doubts about the claims of Abe Reed. I have heard from someone who knew Reed, that even if Reed had known Jacob Waltz, it was when Reed was a mere child. Further, his story is describing a dry placer, not a lode mine, and the devil in the details, even the robberies of the Dutchman by Reed's father are sketchy. Waltz was known as a man not to be fooled with, it's hard to imagine he would so easily be caught off guard and robbed. If such a robbery really happened, it would be very likely that either the robber or Waltz or both would still be there, turning into dust.

I would highly recommend to take the Reed story with the proverbial dose of salt, as it appears that he was really just trying to insinuate himself into the legend, and establish some kind of claim on the mine when someone else would find it.

Please do continue,

Oro

I don't know about the robbery , but John Reed gave some accurate clues in the Northcut Ely - Jim Bark letter from the Clay's memoirs . One of those is the " water holes " clue ( see attached GE image ) .

 

[markmar]

Doc,

To my great surprise, I asked the man who found it, if the mine was as Holmes wrote Waltz had buried it. He told me that it was sealed, as described. Other than that, I don't believe much that was in the Holmes Manuscript. Can't help but wonder how Holmes really came by that part of the story.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe

Waltz sealed the mine in a Mexican style . So , the most if not all the Mexican pit mines were sealed like Waltz's mine .