Iron piece 1864

diverjon123

diverjon123

Jr. Member
Apr 27, 2013
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Jon - pH Up is the only thing needed in the water to make it an effective electrolyte. There are other things you can use also, but pH Up is the easiest to find.

BigCypress - Its always a good idea to do electrolysis in open air / well ventilated areas for many reasons. I'm not sure about the SS fumes, but I heard the same thing about galvanized steel so there is likely something to that. The main reason for good ventilation (IMHO) is because the process generates Hydrogen gas which can be very explosive in the right density. The process involves Hydrogen gas, chlorides, oxides, sulfides and acidic compounds...all right next to an electrical converter with voltage running through a wet open circuit. Those things combined make ventilation pretty desirable in my opinion, but I must admit that I don't fully understand the high-level chemistry of why it can be dangerous. :-)

The manual I linked to goes into some in-depth discussion about some of that. What I do know is if you follow Dr. Hamilton's methods, you get some great results.

Jason
 

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ScubaFinder said:
Jon - pH Up is the only thing needed in the water to make it an effective electrolyte. There are other things you can use also, but pH Up is the easiest to find.

BigCypress - Its always a good idea to do electrolysis in open air / well ventilated areas for many reasons. I'm not sure about the SS fumes, but I heard the same thing about galvanized steel so there is likely something to that. The main reason for good ventilation (IMHO) is because the process generates Hydrogen gas which can be very explosive in the right density. The process involves Hydrogen gas, chlorides, oxides, sulfides and acidic compounds...all right next to an electrical converter with voltage running through a wet open circuit. Those things combined make ventilation pretty desirable in my opinion, but I must admit that I don't fully understand the high-level chemistry of why it can be dangerous. :-)

The manual I linked to goes into some in-depth discussion about some of that. What I do know is if you follow Dr. Hamilton's methods, you get some great results.

Jason
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Thank you for the reply. Should I perform electrolysis right away or wait tell it has become stable.
 

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Right Away Jon, the water and Sodium Carbonate only slow the oxidation process. Water has dissolved oxygen in it also so the rusting / oxidation never completely stops. I'm glad you are taking the time to preserve this artifact, it's a neat piece of history and I think we all want to see it stabilized. Let us know if you find the ship it went to also. :-)
 

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Don't worry If i fined out I will be sure to tell everyone that has helped. So how will I know that the electrolysis has finished and that the artifact is safe to put the polyurethane and rostoleum on?
 

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Just made a run to Home Depot and lowed and have got everything. My question is that instead of sodium carbonate could u use bisodium carbonate?
 

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diverjon123 said:
Don't worry If i fined out I will be sure to tell everyone that has helped. So how will I know that the electrolysis has finished and that the artifact is safe to put the polyurethane and rostoleum on?
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When it stops bubbling? I dunno need to ask Jason when he gets back. He said it will take a long time.

I realize you cannot reveal the location but have you found the entire wreck? Is it in the east coast shipping lanes?

I used to use Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.
 

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ScubaFinder said:
Hi DiverJon,

Thanks for the invite BigCypress. Jon, you definitely need to spend some time conserving this artifact, otherwise you will have a pile of rusty dust inside of a year. The fresh water advice is very good advice, it will start to leach the salts out, but that is only half the problem. The iron is also very oxidized, and the only way to remove / convert that is through electrolytic reduction, most call it electrolysis. It is simple and inexpensive to do, and proper conservation gives your artifact real value. Get a letter from the manufacturer and find out which ship it was on and you really have something of value!! Don't underestimate the importance of conservation, it truly is the difference between a valuable artifact and a pile of rust. Here is the short description of a conservation tank, ask questions as needed and we will get it done. Post pictures, and we can use this thread as an example of how to do it right! :-)

You will need:
A plastic tub big enough to completely submerge the artifact in.
A small 2-10 amp adjustable car battery charger (or better yet a nice adjustable voltage / amperage DC converter).
A jug of pH Up powder (swimming pool supplies available at Home Depot and the like, make sure the jug says 100% Sodium Carbonate)
A plate of stainless steel about the same length and height as the artifact (SS grate will also work, as will aluminum plate but SS is the best)
Some assorted SS wire, SS hose clamps big enough to go around the artifact (3 or 4 should do it)

The process:
Twist up stainless steel wire into thicker cables, Hose Clamp the wires onto the artifact in several locations, make sure your twisted up wire is long enough to protrude above the surface of the water
Hook the wires attached to the artifact to the NEG - side of the battery charger, you can just twist them all together and attach the clamp to the bundle.
Now insert the artifact into the tub, and add the stainless steel plate in with it, make sure the plate doesn't touch the artifact or wires anywhere. Attach the POS + Lead from the battery charger to the plate.
Now add about 1 cup of powdered Sodium Carbonate (pH Up) to a 5 gallon bucket of water (tap or rain, rain / distilled water is better, but really only super important for the last step.)
Add the electrolyte (water and Sodium Carbonate mix) to the tub, making sure it completely covers the artifact, but doesn't cover the clamps from the battery charger. These will corrode quickly if submerged.
Turn on the charger, and adjust until it fizzes lightly, it almost looks like smoke coming off the artifact when it's adjusted correctly. Large bubbles mean it's getting too much amperage, smoking, not boiling. :-)

Your artifact probably needs 4-5 months of this, with several water changes and possibly ss plate replacements. When finished, paint an original color with Rustoleum or just seal with poly urethane sealer. The Rustoleum inhibits further rusting and the polyurethane seals out moisture. If you do all of this, you will be rewarded with a stable artifact that will last centuries, anything less and unfortunately the artifact will deteriorate away to nothing. Patience is the hardest part. Hopefully my quick description made sense, I'll check back when I can. In the future, you should be prepared and committed to conserving anything you bring up. You never know which piece is going to be the clue that tells the story. You should also measure and photograph your find. Know the laws too, it is illegal to remove anything man-made and over 50 years old from Florida waters without a permit. I know this was a beach find, but in case you didn't know...you should. :-)

If you really want to be serious, read this:

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/ConservationManual.pdf

We might conserve it in our lab for a fee if you'd rather go that route, would have to check. Will PM you details if that is a possibility. Nice piece of history, lets make sure it stays around for others to enjoy.:icon_thumleft:

Jason
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What Florida statue says that about the 50 years or older. I am trying to find it.
 

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Not sure if this will help but I used to have a salt water fish tank for about 4-5 years. During this time from the light hitting the water, the salt would evaporate and collect at the top of the aquariums. If you submerged this thing in a 1 foot depth container of fresh water that was warm and had a light shining on it, it may evaporate out the salt. I am not 100% that this would work but you never know. But you would need a high power light and a fair size fish tank heater.
 

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The law does not apply to the beach, only to navigable waterways (which basically means anything deeper than about 3 feet at LOW tide. I don't remember the statute, but I believe I found it from a link inside a thread here at TNET. The thread was about the old law called the Isolated Finds Program. Florida did away with this program, and the new laws that replaced it included the 50 year old statement. I believe the state defines antiquities as "anything over 50 years old that has been made or altered by humans". That is where the 50 year thing comes into play, then the other law states that antiquities cannot be removed from navigable waterways, with antiquities being already defined in a different statute. I'll see if I can dig it up also, Florida Rule 31-A might also have this information.

Jon, your artifact will need minimum 3 months in conservation, probably more like 6 months. There are some simple test strips you can use to determine when the process is complete, I will post that in detail soon. Basically when you do what you perceive as the last water change, you will monitor the salts and chlorides to ensure that the levels do not continue to rise. Once they stop rising, there is nothing left inside the artifact and it is ready to be sealed. If you jump the gun, you seal the bad stuff in and end up with a rotting artifact again. Better to do it right the first time.
 

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I wonder if a 3 foot deep swamp on state lands is considered navigable waters? Does it change when the water lowers and it is no longer navigable?
 

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ScubaFinder said:
The law does not apply to the beach, only to navigable waterways (which basically means anything deeper than about 3 feet at LOW tide. I don't remember the statute, but I believe I found it from a link inside a thread here at TNET. The thread was about the old law called the Isolated Finds Program. Florida did away with this program, and the new laws that replaced it included the 50 year old statement. I believe the state defines antiquities as "anything over 50 years old that has been made or altered by humans". That is where the 50 year thing comes into play, then the other law states that antiquities cannot be removed from navigable waterways, with antiquities being already defined in a different statute. I'll see if I can dig it up also, Florida Rule 31-A might also have this information.

Jon, your artifact will need minimum 3 months in conservation, probably more like 6 months. There are some simple test strips you can use to determine when the process is complete, I will post that in detail soon. Basically when you do what you perceive as the last water change, you will monitor the salts and chlorides to ensure that the levels do not continue to rise. Once they stop rising, there is nothing left inside the artifact and it is ready to be sealed. If you jump the gun, you seal the bad stuff in and end up with a rotting artifact again. Better to do it right the first time.
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Thanks you very much. You have helped out tremendously in this project.
 

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Jon, can you tell for sure if this is iron or bronze? To me, it looks bronze which means it will stabilize more quickly. It looks great, wait until you see how it looks when finished, you'll be very glad you took the time and did it right, not to mention the increase in value! :-)
 

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