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ICW question

I am not a diver so can't speak from experience from that angle but can tell you the current can get pretty strong in there. Id say probably low tide, less of a distance to have to drag your finds up through back to the boat. ::shrug::

Aaron
 

Guyinblack

Lying itself isn't a felony. But, lying to a duly authorized officer of the law is considered obstruction. If he thinks you're lying and has enough probably cause to search you, and then finds out that you are in fact in possession of something that you are not... then it is a felony

steve
 

OK, I can't take it anymore.

Here is the Florida law. IT is NOT a felony to lie...

Yes, you can 'elevate' the contact with the law enforcement officer into something terrible for you. Finding a gold ring on the beach is not illegal. The cops are not out to get us. Why lie to the officer? Why not just be a nice guy...

If your in possession of the States treasured artifacts, yes, you may have committed a 'different' crime. But if your not doing anything wrong...

Below is the obstruction statute: (State of Florida)

843.02 Resisting officer without violence to his or her person.--Whoever shall resist, obstruct, or oppose any officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9); member of the Parole Commission or any administrative aide or supervisor employed by the commission; county probation officer; parole and probation supervisor; personnel or representative of the Department of Law Enforcement; or other person legally authorized to execute process in the execution of legal process or in the lawful execution of any legal duty, without offering or doing violence to the person of the officer, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Here is the lying about who you are statute:

843.03 Obstruction by disguised person.--Whoever in any manner disguises himself or herself with intent to obstruct the due execution of the law, or with the intent to intimidate, hinder, or interrupt any officer, beverage enforcement agent, or other person in the legal performance of his or her duty or the exercise of his or her rights under the constitution or laws of this state, whether such intent is effected or not, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

You will notice, neither of which are felonies... BTW, I'm a retired Florida Deputy Sheriff...
 

guy
... I think we're arguing the same thing, from different sides. I agree... it isn't a felony to lie. It isn't a felony to pick up a ring on the beach. But, if you took something protected (which I believe IS a felony), and then lie to the cop about it... chances are, you're going to get in trouble when he does find it.

You know better than most that there are certain people you don't lie to, just because they deal with liars on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis, and can tell when you're lying. The short list is cops, lawyers, judges. We've heard it all, and while we may not be able to tell exactly what you're lying about, we usually know when you're lying (I'm an attorney).

The "felony" i was referring to in my earlier post (at the end) was the possession of the something you're not supposed to have, not the lying part

steve
 

I was gong to correct my post but find it missing , since I was was in fact in error ( I will admit when I'm in error and correct myself if I in fact am in error-- I don't have a problem with doing so -- hey never said I was perfect --look what they did to the last "perfect" person --so if you think your prefect and always "right"--prepare to be "nailed to the cross" my daddy told me long ago ) -- I stand corrected by some one who does "know" the law --- lying its not felony -- how ever it does up you up to "obstruction of a investation" charge--- which is a 1st class misdaminor -- however once lied to cops tend to get "mean" and throw the book at you ---we all know just what I mean I'm sure --- there are many laws on the books -- that if the officers want to use "creative" writing skills you could be charged with if their "in the mood" -- that said "knowingly lying to a cop" is not too smart--Ivan
 

Getting back to the original thread..Scubafinder defines it properly. Anything over 50 years old (1950 coin for instance) is illegal, and not just the intercoastal, but anywhere in state waters. This is why you technically can't recover anything from the 1715 fleet in the Indian river. The spoil islands are mostly owned by the state, and would probably fall under the same rules.
 

is there anything being done in the treasure hunting community to change this (50 year) law? it seems plain nuts to me.
 

so anything 1957 or older is by the 50 year old by "book" rules--- off limits -- geez thats a crock of ---- and with draconian rules like that they wonder why folks don't "respect" the law --- laws that don't make sense are just "legalized craziness" ---Ivan
 

To all,



According to DEP and FWC Today at 16:50 : The Law DID NOT Pass!! for years the
State of FL. been trying pass no MD's on the ICW , because of Native American relics, and
Historical Area's: But they can ticket for Native American Relics.
So.... what DEP and FWC Basically said was: Stay Out of State parks, and National Parks, and Aquatic perserves! and private property :
IF and When your Detecting on the ICW Stay between mean high and mean low:

On the 50 yrs rule : " off the record " , IT's up to the officer.
 

also how are regular folk suppose to know about this crazy law? i didn't know it when i got into the hobby(yes I'm still glad i did). not till i found t-net. since , i began feeling like a potential felon. i guess we should be glad the beaches are still fair game, but this is supposed to be a free country. so lets fix it . where do we start?
 

sap...

But when you asked the LE officer, did you call him snapperhead like you recommended that I do ;D

wailin. how do you find out about these laws? By asking the proper people, ie law enforcement, or reading it in reputable boards, although sometimes this board is much more drama than reputable.

Now granted if you were totally unknowing about a law and were metal detecting somewhere you didn't belong, the police might be nice and tell you that you have to leave, or they could just outright say your'e done pal, take your stuff and haul you off to the greybar motel like they'd do in a second in St. Augustine.

As a word of caution, everywhere you go, especially if you are travelling out of state, check the local laws. Sometimes just a visit to the rangers station or calling the non emergency number which can be found in the blue pages in phone books a lot can get you in touch with a good source of this information

Aaron
 

Wailinmacs,


How to fix it, Good question. have a Fl. MD Club expo. just on Fl. laws ??
I agree: it's crazy!! FL. always been nuts on MD's, and the that Da@@# seaturtle nesting
season. if those screwballs even see you digging within 100ft of a nest. they start crying!!!!

if anyone ask, on the beach what you found: always say " just junk"
I don't know where you live, : I live in St. johns county: On Saint Augustine Beach's, We have Archaeologist pertending to be beachcumbers just to see what your digging. it's nuts here.

Good hunting
 

Aaron,



On the 1st Question:" Yes, I Did !! ...That's how I got the right answer! ;D
on your 2nd Question: Went to the FWC, and DEP northeast office in Jaxs Bch,.
and your right on about St. Augustine Bch!!

Sapper
 

For the record, I meant tell them you haven't found anything GOOD, not lie...exactly. I always find several cans, nails, etc. before I find something worth while, and I simply keep trash in one pocket, and I keep the other pocket closed. :D

On the beach, the 50 year rule does not apply, only in "navigable waters". I've seen the definition of "navigable" once, but don't have it in front of me, it's something like at least 4 feet deep at it's deepest point, and wet at least 50% of the year, so even that is a little vague.

For those of you busting on the state of Florida, they are better than most states, and most other states don't have the amount of good stuff to be found that Florida has. Texas found out they had some shipwrecks, and they shut down the whole area, beach and all. Sure some states have more relaxed laws, but Florida is pretty decent to the treasure hunters in the grand scheme of things.
 

Not sure how it applies specifically to Florida's laws, but the definition in Federal court (for all admiralty cases) is -

Navigable Waters - Waters of the US including territorial seas; any waters susceptible to commerce or subject to tidal activity; interstate waters including wetlands; all other waters, lakes, or streams and their tributaries; whose use or degradation could affect commerce or use.

Basically, any waterway in the US that can be used for commerce is considered navigable waters. It includes waterways, rivers, etc. Under federal law, the navigable water extends to the mean high water mark as well.

I am pretty sure that the "50 year rule" only applies to items that are IN the water (navigable or not - but i'm not certain on that). I am pretty sure, (but not 100%) that things found on the beach (or OUT of the water) are excluded. I'd have to do the research to be sure.

hope that helps
steve
 

You are correct on the last 2 points Spez. But I believe that Florida defines "navigable" in slightly different terms in the Submerged finds act....we'll get this sorted out one way or the other. When we do, I say we para-phrase it into a new thread and leave it for all to see. Great work.

Jason
 

Scuba, even that definition of navigable is vague.

Wet 50 percent of the time. ok, so it goes through high and low tide. basically if something gets under water, you can't dig it. depth at deepest 4 feet, is that at high tide or low tide. In florida the tides shift a good 4 feet each time, sometimes as much as 6. Ok so the 'bank' is only wet at high tide during the final 20 pecent of peak BUT since the rest of the 'stream' has a center that's 4.4 deep . it qualifies... ok whatever...

Ok, I am NOT picking on you contrary to what im sure some will scream I am, I do realize that this is only a commentary from you and not a post claiming to be pure fact. I am just commenting on the BS factor of this law.

Navigable waters, even the lawmakers can't agree really on this one: When one looks at what the 'definitions are' even the same state, same city, different departments within, at some times, cant agree on what is considered navigable.

Unfortunately like many other laws of this nature, it's mostly smoke and mirrors and sadly suspect to wide interpretation.

Here are a few links to pursue if one wishes.

http://www.wetlands.com/coe/coe329p0.htm

http://www.usace.army.mil/cw/cecwo/reg/33cfr329.htm

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-navigabl.html

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FE611

http://floridamaritimelawyer.claris...isdictional-creep-and-puzzle-lake-florida.php


So the coast guard says if a toothpick can somehow find it's way to the ocean then it's navigable in their eyes. FINE, if I flush a toothpick down the toilet, it's small enough that technically it CAN make it's way to the treatment plant, make it's way past the screens, and make it's way into the water stream in the river, and hence out to the ocean. The coast guard then, by their terms, patrols my crapper. Maybe next time I plug up my shitter with a double beefcake wendy's triple with extra cheese clog my rectum please gut bomb, I can call out a mayday and get the coast guard here to 'clear the log jam' in my waterway :D

Aaron
 

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