How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Gollum wrote

Do you REALLY want to believe the fake Roland Gassler as to the origin of the ore he showed TK?

To put it simply, YES. There was no good reason for this imposter to lie about the origins of his specimen. He could have not bothered to show any specimen at all, and would likely have still obtained the papers he wished. We could argue about what POSSIBLE motives such a person might have, and that he is definitely a liar, etc but on this point I have zero doubt. I also trust Tom Kollenborn's assessment, and though this statement may not appear in his articles, he stated it on public television for an episode of the TV series "Unsolved Mysteries" hosted by Robert Stack, the episode is number 20 and was first aired 3/15/1989. If you have not seen this episode, I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the Lost Dutchman gold mine. In this episode, Kollenborn states that the ore specimen shown to him by the imposter Roland looked to be the same as Waltz's ore.

In Helen Corbin's book "The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold" she states, quote

"That weekend a man appeared at Tom Kollenborn's home. He introduced himself as Walter Gassler's son. Tom invited the man in and after exchanging pleasantries the man brought out some rich gold ore. He said it was in his father's backpack when he was found on the trail. Tom was shocked. But, maintaining his usual dour facade, he examined the ore and later said it looked exactly like the gold which came from under the Dutchman's bed."

<The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold Helen Corbin 1990 Foxwest Publishing Phoenix AZ pp 229>

Helen repeats this same set of statements in her book "The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz" on page 338. As far as I know, Tom Kollenborn has never contradicted her statements nor recanted his statements given on Unsolved Mysteries way back in '89.

This has been enough for MY PERSONAL OPINION as 'proof' that Walt Gassler had in fact found what he so excitedly told his friends Bob Corbin and Tom Kollenborn, the Lost Dutchman mine. Of the various other claimants who say they found the mine, none have shown any specimen which matched so well. Assay testing would be "final" proof, but a good geologist can tell by looking with the naked eye in most cases, and Kollenborn is known as a competent geologist, in fact he has published at least one study on the geology of the Superstition mountains. This set of evidences is likely NOT enough to suit many folks, but as I have stated previously (repeatedly) I do not need to see stacks of gold bars to be convinced, but need SOME evidence, just as I don't mind exploring many a wild theory, but wish to keep one foot on the ground rather than making leaps based on a string of suppositions. It is a "leap" to accept the statement of the imposter Roland, but not much of a leap and good old "Occam's Razor" comes in handy.

Not sure why this has become a bone of contention, as this is surely not "the" pillar of the subject here is it? After all there are plenty of folks who are convinced that Joe Deering, John Chuning, Sims Ely and others truly found the Lost Dutchman, it is just my own opinion concerning Gassler as the "sole" discoverer since Waltz.
Oroblanco

 

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[Ellie Baba]

Somehiker had requested some info and I replied to his message. Lammar, I respect your knowledge here along with so many others and I have a great deal of ground to cover and I will need everyone's input. Christopher Columbus was a Knight Templar, it's true. White flags on ships sails with red cross.
The Knight Templars did not really disappear for they have existed up until this day. They have been known to exist in other secret organizations. See link:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/kt1.htm A short history of the Knights Templar. The following statement is from the book;" history of the Conquest of Mexico" by Prescott.

The youthful cavalier, however, hesitated whether to seek his fortunes under that victorious chief, or in the New World, where gold as well as glory was to be won, and where the very dangers had a mystery and romance in them inexpressibly fascinating to a youthful fancy. It was in this direction, accordingly, that the hot spirits of that day found a vent, especially from that part of the country where Cortes lived, the neighbourhood of Seville and Cadiz, the focus of nautical enterprise. He decided on this latter course, and an opportunity offered in the splendid armament fitted out under Don Nicolas de Ovando, successor to Columbus.

I believe that Hernan Cortes was a member of the Knights Templar and I can tell you why. The photo depicting the Knight is in fact a Templar Knight.
His shield is a symbol of this secret society which is a Mason's trowel (which was adopted by the Masons). One more link for all of you who may be interested: http://store.innertraditions.com/Pr...Detail&id=2143&searchString=978-1-59477-098-2 The Knights Templar in the Golden Age of Spain AND finally a little piece of history; "Mendieta, in his Historia Eclesiástica Indiana: When [Cortés] departed from the island of Cuba to carry it [the Conquista] on, in all flags of his ships placed in the middle of his arms a red cross with a lettering that read: Amici, sequamur crucem; si enim fidem habuerimus, in hoc signo vincemus: Let's follow the Holy Cross, since by her we conquer'.

I am beat,

Buenos notches amigos.

EB

 

[Oroblanco]

Ellie Baba wrote

Christopher Columbus was a Knight Templar, it's true.

I have to ask, how this could be possible when the Knights Templar were disbanded by Pope Clement V in 1312, and Christopher Columbus was born almost 150 years later? The Knights Templar were not permitted to marry and father children, so they could not have "descendants" as such. Is it not possible that the symbology employed by Columbus had more to do with the Spanish crown and perhaps even a personal admiration of the Knights by Columbus? If you would explain this further I would appreciate it, thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Hey Roy,

I'm not sure either, but TK never contradicted Glover's statements made in his book either, where no mention was made of TK's opinions about the source of the gold he was shown.

Also, if you read Glover's book, a very good case was made that Walter Gassler died on the way into the mountains, and not on the way out. Ernie Appel of the Pinal County Coroner's Ofice stated that in his professional opinion, Gassler had been dead for between 1.5 and 3 days. That would have meant that Gassler died on the way into the mountains.

While TK may have been able to tell the difference between Epithermal and Mesothermal Gold-in-Quartz Ore. Even Superman couldn't tell the difference in the gangue of the ore itself without either Scanning Electron Microscopy or destructive mineral testing (gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, etc).

Back to Glover's Book, when he had all the known samples of Superstition Ore and Mine Ore from close by, it was found that the Jewelry Ore (from under Waltz's bed), matched exactly with the "Camp" Ore. While it did almost match the "Kochera" Ore, it was probably from the same event, but not the same mine. This asays to me that the Kochera Ore was from one of the Peraltas other mines in the Supers.

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Mike, I do not own Glover's book and have no plans to buy it any time soon, though I do hope to add it to the collection at some point; a key reason being that we no longer hunt for the Lost Dutchman so the continuing interest is purely on a "platonic" level. <An ongoing "project" eats up a major portion of our disposable incomes, severely limiting the budget for books, maps etc for the time being. Once completed this situation will change.> Whether Gassler obtained his specimen(s) on his last trip or on another one is up for debate, however if we accept the imposter Roland's statement on where he obtained his, and Kollenborn's opinion, plus the published notes of Gassler, it would appear that Gassler indeed found the mine. As I have repeately pointed out, this has been enough to convince ME personally, which in no way limits or defines how you or anyone else should reach your own conclusions. You are certainly welcome to your opinions and conclusions, and are free and welcome NOT to agree that Gassler ever found any gold mine. I won't be offended, honest!

Concerning the near match "Kochera" ore, I would hesitate before assigning it to any Peralta mines, I have no knowledge of where it originated. Also as far as I know, we have no recorded documentation of any Peraltas ever owning any mines within the Superstition mountains. Does Glover state where this specimen was found? It could be a piece of "float" which came from a vein that could be literally miles away, perhaps not even within what we now call the Superstition mountains today for all I know.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Postscript

I thought I would see if I could locate some place online where our readers could view that episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" free, but could not. However, I did find that they have the episode transcribed in abridged form, so here is an extract, quote

Two months later, Gassler called Bob’s partner, Tom Kollenborn, a local historian. According to Kollenborn, Gassler claimed that he had finally located the Dutchman’s mine:

“Walt Gassler was convinced that the mine existed from the clues that he had. Some of those clues he would not reveal. And the next morning, his wife took him out to the trail head and dropped him off.”
Walt hiked alone into the Superstitions, never to be seen alive again. Three days later, his body was found by a ranch-hand, Don Shade. An autopsy proved he had died of a heart attack.

Then, one month after Walt’s death, Tom Kollenborn had a surprising visitor:
“He said he was Roland Gassler, Walt Gassler’s son. And he says, well you know my dad found the Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions and he got out this gold and showed it too me. It looked very similar to the gold that allegedly came out of the Lost Dutchman mine.”

from http://www.unsolved.com/treasure.html click on the 'Arizona's Lost Dutchman mine' link
Gassler's backpack has gone missing since his death.
Oroblanco

 

[Cubfan64]

HOLA amigos,

Gollum wrote

Do you REALLY want to believe the fake Roland Gassler as to the origin of the ore he showed TK?

To put it simply, YES. There was no good reason for this imposter to lie about the origins of his specimen. He could have not bothered to show any specimen at all, and would likely have still obtained the papers he wished. We could argue about what POSSIBLE motives such a person might have, and that he is definitely a liar, etc but on this point I have zero doubt. I also trust Tom Kollenborn's assessment, and though this statement may not appear in his articles, he stated it on public television for an episode of the TV series "Unsolved Mysteries" hosted by Robert Stack, the episode is number 20 and was first aired 3/15/1989. If you have not seen this episode, I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the Lost Dutchman gold mine. In this episode, Kollenborn states that the ore specimen shown to him by the imposter Roland looked to be the same as Waltz's ore.

In Helen Corbin's book "The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold" she states, quote

"That weekend a man appeared at Tom Kollenborn's home. He introduced himself as Walter Gassler's son. Tom invited the man in and after exchanging pleasantries the man brought out some rich gold ore. He said it was in his father's backpack when he was found on the trail. Tom was shocked. But, maintaining his usual dour facade, he examined the ore and later said it looked exactly like the gold which came from under the Dutchman's bed."

<The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold Helen Corbin 1990 Foxwest Publishing Phoenix AZ pp 229>

Helen repeats this same set of statements in her book "The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz" on page 338. As far as I know, Tom Kollenborn has never contradicted her statements nor recanted his statements given on Unsolved Mysteries way back in '89.

This has been enough for MY PERSONAL OPINION as 'proof' that Walt Gassler had in fact found what he so excitedly told his friends Bob Corbin and Tom Kollenborn, the Lost Dutchman mine. Of the various other claimants who say they found the mine, none have shown any specimen which matched so well. Assay testing would be "final" proof, but a good geologist can tell by looking with the naked eye in most cases, and Kollenborn is known as a competent geologist, in fact he has published at least one study on the geology of the Superstition mountains. This set of evidences is likely NOT enough to suit many folks, but as I have stated previously (repeatedly) I do not need to see stacks of gold bars to be convinced, but need SOME evidence, just as I don't mind exploring many a wild theory, but wish to keep one foot on the ground rather than making leaps based on a string of suppositions. It is a "leap" to accept the statement of the imposter Roland, but not much of a leap and good old "Occam's Razor" comes in handy.

Not sure why this has become a bone of contention, as this is surely not "the" pillar of the subject here is it? After all there are plenty of folks who are convinced that Joe Deering, John Chuning, Sims Ely and others truly found the Lost Dutchman, it is just my own opinion concerning Gassler as the "sole" discoverer since Waltz.
Oroblanco

Thanks Oro - I checked last night as well and found the same quotes you did in Helen Corbin's books. I was almost certain I had read somewhere that Tom K. stated his opinion that the "fake" Roland Gassler's ore looked like Dutchman ore.

I question my memory quite a bit lately, but this one I actually got right

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie Baba wrote

Christopher Columbus was a Knight Templar, it's true.

I have to ask, how this could be possible when the Knights Templar were disbanded by Pope Clement V in 1312, and Christopher Columbus was born almost 150 years later? The Knights Templar were not permitted to marry and father children, so they could not have "descendants" as such. Is it not possible that the symbology employed by Columbus had more to do with the Spanish crown and perhaps even a personal admiration of the Knights by Columbus? If you would explain this further I would appreciate it, thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

Oroblanco,

Even though the Templars were disbanded there were a number of other countries (England, Germany and others) including Spain and Portugal that where happy to receive any Templar Knights and provide them with sanctuary. In my earlier post I provided a link to access the data that refers to the Knight's of Christ who were comprised of these disbanded Knights Templar. Later the vows of chastity were dropped and eventually even Spain kicked them out and they joined the others in Portugal. Portugal was well known as Prince Henry the Navigator (3rd child of King John I of Portugal) had access to a number of historical sailing charts which our friend Columbus became intimately familiar with. The book concerning the other link explains what happened to the Templar Knights in Spain after they were disbanded in France. Understand that the Templars didn't go away they are just members of other secret socities.

Later,

EB

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

[The Knight Templars did not really disappear for they have existed up until this day. They have been known to exist in other secret organizations. See link:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/kt1.htm A short history of the Knights Templar.]

The history is interesting, but the folks are not connected in any way to the Knight's Templar of old.

"The Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem is an International order of Chivalry with members in over 40 countries worldwide. There are approximately 5,000 members of the Order. • Knights Templar support a number of domestic and overseas charities......"

This is not a "secret" order, and is open to all Christians. Assuming you are correct, and there are such "secret" organizations existing today, what is their purpose? You could, of course, be completely correct.

Can you tell us which books your are using for sources on Templar's?

Thanks again,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

Joe,

Who is to say that they are in fact a secret order? Would you consider the Masons to be a secret order? The Masons have the same opportunities available to all beleiving men and women as the above mentioned Templar group. I can assure you that a 33rd degree Mason subscribes to a number of different levels of knowledge that are totally foriegn to even a 32nd degree Mason.
And so this chain of command and knowledge flows down through the ranks until reaching the initiates and an initiate has no idea what level of knowledge he will recieve until he completes each degree and moves up to the next one. We have a perfect working, self-protecting secret organization. They would give up their lives to protect the body and who's head do they worship?
These secret societies are hidden within groups that we think are totally honest and up front just like the US Government. The best definition that I would use to describe these groups today is the "New World Order" and I can think of about four of them right off of the top of my head. As time goes on we will discover that these same organizations were the ones who started the LDM legends. The title of this forum is why I am here. There is something out there much larger than the Dutchman and he was a part of it. We can start with Bicknell's San Francisco Chronicle and his original article written in 1895, and if you buy his story (which it seems most of you have) it makes sense that one would believe Weedin's account then on to Blair's and so on and on.
I am relying on the the monuments and the art forms that are speaking out and verifying the truth of the Stone Tablets. I am reading what the desert is telling me. The Superstitions are like a book, so open your minds and read the signs and listen to the stories they have to tell. A famous quote that I have come to love, "If we command them to be quiet the rocks will stand up and shout"! So Joe, I have no other books concerning the Templars as this story is writing itself. And Group, I do not have all the answers as I am still a work in progress.

Be easy on me ya'all, the truth will set you free.

EB

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Ellie Baba wrote

Understand that the Templars didn't go away they are just members of other secret socities.

Then wouldn't it be more accurate and correct to refer to them NOT as "Knights Templar" but by the names of these "successor" societies? Or at least as the "Knights Templar Successors"? It just strikes me as inaccurate and misleading to be saying Columbus was a member of a society which had been disbanded more than a century earlier, and even those members who did not simply switch to the Hospitallers (many did) but joined other societies did not refer to themselves as the Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ the Knights Templar etc. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Columbus was a member of the Freemasons? Anyway thank you for explaining, but I must respectfully disagree that Columbus was a member of the Knights Templar, based on the timeline problem.
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
To sum up the role of "Pauperes Commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici" (The Poor-Fellow Soldiers of Christ [and] of the Temple of Solomon) more commonly known as the Knights Templars, or just Templars, were founded as Roman Catholic Lay Military Order around 1119 AD. They recieved official endoursement from the Vatican in 1129 AD and they were active for almost two centuries, until they were disbanded by the Vatican in 1312 AD. And that is the end of the story, gentlemen.

The Templars were, are, and always will be a Roman Catholic Order and any neo-modern group that labels themselves by any title which includes Knights Templars, or Templars are simply playing make-believe. This includes the Freemasons, who did not come even come into existence until the very late 1600s. Now, please understand this next statement very carefully.

The Roman Catholic Church does not permit any of it's members to join the Freemasons or any of it's associated fraternal organizations. Any Roman Catholic who ignores this rule is automatically considered to be excommunicated "latae sententiae" or to state in English, excommunicated without verdict having to be pronounced by a clerical court.

By this same virtue, any Freemason who claims a lineage to the Knights Templars of the Roman Catholic Church is in effect stating that he himself is in fact an excommunicated Roman Catholic.

The Knights Templars were disbanded by Pope Clement V in 1312 and most former Templar members became members of the multitude of other Roman Catholic Lay Military orders of the day, with the most popular being the Hospitallers of St. John. Also, all former Templar holdings were handed over to the Hospitallers, which was quite generous, in my very humble opinion.

One underlying reason for the disbandment of the Templars by the Vatican is because the Templars were talking about starting their own monastic state, much like the Hospitallers had done in Rhodes and the Teutonic Knights were doing in Prussia. It was bad enough that the second and third largest of the military Orders had established their own monastic states, but when the Templars were considering doing the same thing in France and throughout other portions of Western Europe, the civil stife which would have surely ensued was simply too much to contemplate.

It did not take much imagination for the Vatican to visualize the better part of Europe as turning into a group of individual monastic entities, each with their own nobility and heirarchies and of course they could not allow this to happen, so disbandment was the best option at the time.

In special circumstance, the former Templars were permitted to form a new organization, as was the case in Portugal. The kingdom of Portugal had a very real crisis on it's hands at the time and was threatened with being overrun by the Muslim Moors. The King of Portugal therefore pleaded with the Vatican to allow the former Templars to start a new military Order for the sole purpose of repelling the Muslim invasion, and the Vatican agreed to the proposal, with much reservation and many stipulations attached.

This Order became known as the Knights of Christ and while a very small percentage of it's members were former Templars, there was little similiarity between the former Templar Order and the Knights of Christ. The Vatican, not eager for a repeat of the shenanigans that the Templars had caused the Holy See, very clearly and explicitly set forth a series of rules which were to be followed closely by the members of the Knights of Christ. Virtually every wrongdoing that the Templars had been accused of was eliminated by the Vatican so the Knights of Christ could not follow in the footsteps of the disbanded Templars.

Most all members of the Knights of Christ were Portuguese and it was not so much the former members of the Templars that the King of Portugal wanted, rather it was the Templar holdings in Portugal that he had his eye on. And so he got them, licitly and with the blessing of the Vatican. And in doing this, he effectively kept the Hospitallers out of Portugal, whom he viewed as a non-friendly Order to the kingdom of Portugal.

To sum up, the ancient Templar Order is dead and buried and nothing can be done to raise them from the crypt. The Order was founded by Roman Catholics and it was destroyed by Roman Catholics and so it shall forever remain a part of Roman Catholic history.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear Ellie Baba;
I've taken the opportunity to review the website in question, the link which you've so thoughfully provided:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/kt1.htm

And it would seem that whoever wrote that *history* of the Templars was long on imagination and short on historical evidence and accuracy and so on. In just the second sentence I read:
The holy father stated that any man who vowed to join the crusade would receive instant absolution and remission from all sins. His last words were: "Deus lo volt!" meaning "God wills it!”

First, there is no word *LO* in Latin, my friend. The correct saying is "Deus Vult!" meaning "[It's the] will of God" Also, the writer misspelled the word Vult as Volt, which leaves me with graves doubts as to the writer's Latin comprehension.

Next, the writer informs us that:

Our story begins one thousand and one years ago on a cold November day in 1096. The Bishop of Rome, Pope Urban II, stood in a field outside of the French city of Clermont and called all in Christendom to arms in a solemn quest to recapture the "holy land" where Christ was born and walked. This land had been part of the Greek Byzantium Empire ever since the split of the Roman Empire in the Fourth Century AD into the two cultural, political and religious centers of Rome and Constantinople. But it had been wrenched away from Christian control in 1073 by those (to quote the Pope) "fanatical followers of Mohammed".


The Council of Clermont did not take place in 1096 AD, rather it occurred one year earlier, from November 18th to the 28th, 1095 AD.

Next, we read:

"Pope Urban II exhorted the second and third sons of each noble family (sons who were left landless from the practice of primogeniture) "to wrest that land from the wicked race and subject it to yourselves. That land which the scripture says 'floweth with milk and honey'."

What Pope Urban II actually said was:
this land which you inhabit, shut in on all sides by the seas and surrounded by the mountain peaks, is too narrow for your large population; nor does it abound in wealth; and it furnishes scarcely food enough for its cultivators. Hence it is that you murder one another, that you wage war, and that frequently you perish by mutual wounds. Let therefore hatred depart from among you, let your quarrels end, let wars cease, and let all dissensions and controversies slumber. Enter upon the road to the Holy Sepulchre; wrest that land from the wicked race, and subject it to yourselves. God has conferred upon you above all nations great glory in arms. Accordingly undertake this journey for the remission of your sins, with the assurance of the imperishable glory of the Kingdom of Heaven.

And also:
When Pope Urban had said these [...] things in his urbane discourse, he so influenced to one purpose the desires of all who were present, that they cried out 'It is the will of God! It is the will of God!'. When the venerable Roman Pontiff heard that, he said: "Most beloved brethren, today is manifest in you what the Lord says in the Gospel, 'Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them.' Unless the Lord God had been present in your spirits, all of you would not have uttered the same cry. For, although the cry issued from numerous mouths, yet the origin of the cry was one. Therefore I say to you that God, who implanted this in your breasts, has drawn it forth from you. Let this then be your war-cry in combats, because this word is given to you by God. When an armed attack is made upon the enemy, let this one cry be raised by all the soldiers of God: It is the will of God! It is the will of God!

We do not know exactly what Pope Urban II said in His speech which He delivered at the Council of Clermont. There exists five accounts of the speeches of the Council of Clermont, yet they all differ wildly from one another. At least four of the authors had witnessed the speeches at Clermont, yet all of written documents were penned many years after the Council of Clermont. Only by comparing the five documents to each other may we arrive at a fairly accurate summation of the speeches and events which took place during the Council of Clermont. The rest is just heresay and *Urban* legend.

I could go on and point out some of the other discrepencies in the article, alas the hour is late and the head droops. Therefore I bid you goodnight my friend, and good luck in your dilligent research efforts. I can plainly see that you are a seeker of truth and I pray mightily that you uncover the knowledge that you thirst for.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

EB,

There may be some inaccuracies in your historical facts, but I believe you are posting in good faith. I like to actively seek out the arguments and conflicting facts, which go against my beliefs. I always hope that the truth will be found somewhere in the mess.

As for the secrets of the Masonic Lodge, they have all been public knowledge for some time now. They endure despite the revelations. Many of their "secrets" were incorporated into Joseph Smiths Temple secrets. In order to keep a secret, only two people should know it, and one must kill the other.

I don't believe there is a single person here trying to hinder your posts. I am just as sure that you would want to hear the historical evidence for and against your theories. By all means question everyone's "facts". None of us are always right. That is especially true of Internet sites.

I look forward to meeting you.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

HOLA amigos,

Ellie Baba wrote

Understand that the Templars didn't go away they are just members of other secret so cities.

Then wouldn't it be more accurate and correct to refer to them NOT as "Knights Templar" but by the names of these "successor" societies? Or at least as the "Knights Templar Successors"? It just strikes me as inaccurate and misleading to be saying Columbus was a member of a society which had been disbanded more than a century earlier, and even those members who did not simply switch to the Hospitallers (many did) but joined other societies did not refer to themselves as the Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ the Knights Templar etc. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Columbus was a member of the Freemasons? Anyway thank you for explaining, but I must respectfully disagree that Columbus was a member of the Knights Templar, based on the timeline problem.
Oroblanco

Good point Oroblanco,

You are absolutely correct. This site that I am working on is from the past and it has been transported to the present since it's discovery in 1984. I have been required to go back and forth in history trying to put this puzzle together. That is why I am posting here hoping that the "Group" will use it's combined knowledge to help us all solve this legend by seeking the truth presented by it's creators.
The information is there, I just need to get it all out on the table which is not an easy task. There is still so much to learn and I have no idea how many more years of research that it will take to complete this task. Thanks to Lamar, Joe, somehiker and others for their support. I will refer to the creators of this site as the "Architects" unless someone has a better idea.

Time to hit the bed and wait upon the Lord; for in a dream He will come once, twice...

EB

 

[Springfield]

..... There is something out there much larger than the Dutchman and he was a part of it. .....

Absolute dead-on bullseye, EB. Again, the ultimate questions are: who are they, what are they hiding and what is their motivation? Waltz was a good soldier, IMHO, who helped create the folly of the 'LDM'. Those dedicated to the disinformation have been neutralized.

 

[Ellie Baba]

The images on my last few posts were interpreted by Jim E. Rose (now deceased) from satellite images provided by NASA. Jim Rose was a Registered Geologist who lived in Dallas, TX. A graduate of Texas A & M his early years were spent at NASA developing the Satellite/infrared Imagery Program. He used this imagery in Brazil/Belize contracted by the University of Florida looking for Mayan structures hidden under the canopies of the jungle. He was also very successful as an Exploration Geologist in locating petroleum anomalies in newly discovered oil fields in Texas. His company was called Geotech INT. He believed in this project noting that he had never seen anything like it in his life. I would like to see these images distributed to the masses as someone may be familiar with the symbols or codes seen in the images. The half horse in the first image is stopped as indicated by the dropped reigns. These images were meant to be seen from several different mountain peaks and the actual symbols/signs have been placed on the sides of other large hills, mesas and other geomorphic structures. Some of the images on the satelite negatives are shown out of proportion. Any questions comments or ideas? Send them my way.

Thanks Group,

EB

 

[ghostdog]

Thanks for the book tip E.B.,I will track it down and read,as you say and I don"t disagree "old Man" . To the Group, I too think there is something much bigger that has been takeing place in the Supers Mts over a long peroid of time and going VERY FAR back in TIME. The KNIGHT on the HORSE ? my opinon is the real deal.Their are far to many images that cannot really be explained away as rain or wind carved.
Is it possible the Christain Crusaders made it to the Supers.and buried something there in similiar style as took place on Oak Island,are they linked?. Possible some yet new clues can come from Indian tribal storys passed down over the generations. The Dutchman said their is a TRICK in the TRAIL ?,so how could HE and a MULE disappear so easily. As a Bob Dylan song says"there is something going on here and I don't know what it is "...gd

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

"so how could HE and a MULE disappear so easily"

Would be very easy.......Same reason its next to impossible to find anything out there without knowing the (exact) spot its located ! Ive had people walk within 10' of me on a worn trail and they never knew i was standing there.

 

[cactusjumper]

Tom,

While that may be true, had you been a mule, your big ears would have twitched giving you away.

Take care,

Joe