How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigo Ellie Baba and everyone,

I hope I have not caused you any offence by my disagreement on a single point of your earlier statement, there should be no doubt that Columbus at least in his own eyes was "carrying the Cross" into the lands of the Heathen to bring them the light of the Gospel, and he may well have considered himself to be a successor to the Templars. There are some strange features in his life, such as his use of the "hooked X" in his signature, a rather Norse runic symbol however different in this usage. (The Norse used it as an "A" sound, Columbus used it as a "Ch" sound symbol). If I have offended you, my sincere apologies as NO offence was ever intended.
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

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[Ellie Baba]

No offense taken Oroblanco. The reason we are here is to exchange information and assist each other. Whether we always agree or not is not important. What is important is to understand why one would disagree with us. For who is greater the teacher or the student? In other words what can I learn from the group by presenting my knowledge here? More than anyone could know, for if you do not understand what I am trying to sell you then you will never buy what I have to sell. Working in unity is better then working in division. Blah, blah, blah. i write to much.

You, the "Group" are doing what you do best; to learn and understand the truth. One truth I know for a fact: I do not know everything about this site. Also, I do have a Native American historically correct rendition of what happened here in the Supers many years ago. Although this Pima Historian will never admit to telling us this story in the first place (my son Ryan was a witness). I will post it as soon as I get the time.

Sleep well all.

EB

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

I had to find an image re-sizer in order to get this photo posted. Attached is the Knight. I will attach the Crescent Moon some time tomorrow when I can find the time. This is the best picture that I can presently find. The Knight is located on the far left side of the Superstition Range then go to the right just a little bit. Look for the diamond shield and the rest will come to light. Sometimes if you step back from the photo a few feet you will be able to see the image better. Remember that these Shadow Monuments are meant to be seen from a great distance. When you get closer to them they will actually become distorted, just like looking at a newspaper photograph with a magnifying glass. It may take you a few minutes for your eyes to recognize the image. Usually the wife or kids will pick up the image right away. Any questions let me know. Anyone in AZ or ? that wants a personal tour of what can be found on the Supers let me know.

EB

Thanks EB for posting the pics of the "500' tall Templar"! Now every time i drive home I stare at it and I can feel it begging me to drop a rope down the cliff and paint a big ol smiley face on it

 

[Ellie Baba]

T. Parker

When you are ready to go let me know. If we live through it I want to take a hike to the Broadway Cave on the southern end of the Soups. There be signs!

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

T. Parker,

I forgot to send you the photo of the Broadway Cave. Supposedly a mountain lion lives near here. He is crouching just over the entrance.

EB

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

T. Parker,

I forgot to send you the photo of the Broadway Cave. Supposedly a mountain lion lives near here. He is crouching just over the entrance.

EB

My back yard faces that cave, my property line is the tonto forest........

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

To the north of that cave in the canyon is a nice mine to check out as well as the remains of an old rock house with just the chimney still standing, have seen arrow heads and pottery in that canyon as well as a few other things!

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hey Group,

I found an article that I had written a number of years ago and wanted to share what I have learned.
This topic is in no way complete as the methods used to create these shadow symbols (to include animated versions) are quite complex.

Introduction to Animated Rock Art
Rock Art has been around for thousands of years, found in many places covering the earth left by many different cultures. Each type and style however designed and created was left as a testimony to a particular group of people or person communicating a story or an event, either physical or spiritual pertaining to that culture or group who created and constructed the message. Thousands of examples of rock art still exist to this day that we do not understand, primarily due to the fact that certain cultures and people that once lived on this earth have long departed leaving no evidence or clues of their existence. We have not yet found the knowledge to translate many types of these art forms left by the ancient and mysterious cultures that depicted their lives and beliefs on the surfaces of solid rock and stone.
We can guess what these art forms mean just by translating simple pictures and symbols that were drawn. We have found that some pictures and symbols that have been studied still to this day have eluded us. This type of rock art is actually quite simple, crude and relatively easy to create. All one has to do is to find a hard rock surface to mark a symbol upon. This symbol could be scratched, pecked, carved, stained, painted and or drawn upon with charcoal from a fire. Some were created with great care and the art forms were quite remarkable. One did not have to be educated to produce these simple art forms.
Archaeoastronomy has taught us that there is one exception to the rule. If the heavens are used to determine the times of the year to plant and harvest they can also be used to create rock art forms and some level of education was and is required. Many cultures had developed different ways to determine the seasons simply by determining the length of the days by the positions of the sun or moon. Short days happened during winter and long days took place during the summer. By using a given known point on the ground which resulted as the mark of a fixed shadow one could draw a mark every day and soon create a typical figure eight or what is more commonly known as an analemma within a one year time period.
Animated (shadow) rock art is a highly developed form of shadow rock art using many of the sciences available thousands of years ago. A group of professional individuals (the Architects) that worked together planned and constructed these unique art forms. They were comprised from the following fields; geologists, astronomers, mathematicians, botanists, meteorologists, architects, surveyors, cartographers, artists, sculptors and other science related personnel. The author selects and enhances each geologic structure to match an art form by using a number of unique techniques. Geomorphic areas had to be pre-qualified as being capable of supporting these art forms which were designed to be used. They were placed on selected mountain sides, cliffs and landforms and had to remain there intact for hundreds of years or more.
The viewing corridor is designed to intersect the most commonly traveled trails or routes. Those familiar with this type of rock art will recognize these viewing corridors allowing them to be guided to an area of importance. These animated art forms can only be seen in their entirety when viewed within the viewing corridor and the sun or moon are located in the correct positions of altitude and azimuth thus producing shadows which create the symbol or art form the author wished to produce. In many cases these art forms were designed to take on an animated form as the sun and/or moon moved across the heavens, thereby producing a message or an image.

©Ellie Baba

 

[Ellie Baba]

To the north of that cave in the canyon is a nice mine to check out as well as the remains of an old rock house with just the chimney still standing, have seen arrow heads and pottery in that canyon as well as a few other things!

Let's get together and take a hike to these areas as I haven't been up there before. Will most likely bring a few friends. The weather is looking good for this type of an outing. Bring your buds too if you would like. PM me if you wish.

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,
Attached are a number of photographs of the Crescent Moon. As you can see from the first photograph the crescent moon is at 90% phase. If the moon was a perfect crescent it would be defined as 100% phase which it will be when viewed at the correct time of the year. This crescent moon is known as a waning moon. This waning crescent will always precede the sun during the night and will usually disappear as the sun rises. Please note: This is an important clue designed into this shadow monument by the architects. The next couple of photos will define how this crescent moon looks when it is not viewed from within the viewing corridor. When I use the word phase in this context it has nothing to do with the phases of the moon.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Group.

Some of you may still believe this shadow monument to be a freak of nature. Let's settle that point with this particular shadow monument. The Architects designed this particular crescent to the finest detail. Our Research Geologist Jack has written a report along with a drawing of the different components of this shadow monument; 1. The bottom segment of the sandstone outcrop forms the lower/bottom shadow right curve of the crescent. 2. The center section is comprised of disseminated sandstone that at one time was part of the sandstone outcrop. 3. A hogback ridgeline which creates the upper shadow curve. 4. A large boulder located on a mountain ridge behind the mountain depicting the majority of the crescent moon. Notice the shadow cast by this boulder that finishes into a perfect peak due to the ridge/slope of the mountain in the fore ground depicting the crescent moon.
Also note that there are a number of different symbols in the photographs provided.

Time for the bed. Later.

EB

 

[Old Dog]

Ellie,
Having been on that hillside I will not question what you have to say.
I only want to throw another hat in the ring.
I think the crescent is Spanish.
Having nothing to do with the LDM.

Thom

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie,
Having been on that hillside I will not question what you have to say.
I only want to throw another hat in the ring.
I think the crescent is Spanish.
Having nothing to do with the LDM.

Thom

Been there done that almost ten years ago. I also was a staunch believer that the Spanish had a hand in this treasure. After locating and viewing hundreds of these shadow monuments and signs there is no way that they could have contrived this great scheme. Did they know the secrets of the pyramids? Where they on the Dome of the Rock for hundreds of years with the Templar Knights recovering the Israelites religious treasures? Did they sail from La Rochelle with the Templar treasure ships to the new world? The Spanish did not possess the knowledge and the finances capable of supporting such a huge project. The Architects were wise to influence the involvement of the Spanish (including the Peraltas) into a conspiracy theory to cover up the truth regarding the Stone Maps. As time progresses I will keep adding photographs and written material that someday may change the minds of thousands of LDM, Spanish and other conventional theory believers. The Jesuits however are not getting off the hook as they have been involved for almost as long as they have been around. I have chosen this thread on this forum due to it's theme.

Have a great week,

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

Lamar?

 

[Springfield]

Hi Group.

Some of you may still believe this shadow monument to be a freak of nature. Let's settle that point with this particular shadow monument. The Architects designed this particular crescent to the finest detail. Our Research Geologist Jack has written a report along with a drawing of the different components of this shadow monument; 1. The bottom segment of the sandstone outcrop forms the lower/bottom shadow right curve of the crescent. 2. The center section is comprised of disseminated sandstone that at one time was part of the sandstone outcrop. 3. A hogback ridgeline which creates the upper shadow curve. 4. A large boulder located on a mountain ridge behind the mountain depicting the majority of the crescent moon. Notice the shadow cast by this boulder that finishes into a perfect peak due to the ridge/slope of the mountain in the fore ground depicting the crescent moon.
Also note that there are a number of different symbols in the photographs provided.

Time for the bed. Later.

EB

When you say "designed", I presume you must mean "recognized", not "constructed"? The large boulder on the other side of the ridge notwithstanding, this cresecent shape - visible from a specific view corridor only - appears to be quite an unusual but natural play of sunlight/shadows. A sign to be looked for, perhaps, but IMHO not manmade by "architects" by any stretch of the imagination. When I first viewed post 189, my eye recognized the cresescent AND STAR shape (inside the crescent), a significent symbol used by "that group" you hinted at in post 169. By the way, I too do not attribute this to that favorite whipping boy, "The Spanish".

 

[lamar]

Dear Ellie Babe;
From the photos which you've provided, my thoughts are that the ridgeline was formed in such a manner due to an ancient upheavel. As we can plainly see from the fault line, one portion overlapped it's neighbor and climbed up it at roughly a 30 degree angle. This is a rather typical type of fault known as a *dip and slip* thrust type fault with drag folding having occurred about the periphiary. It looks to be relatively obscured and well rounded, most likely due to the advanced age of the fault and the resulting errosion which caused the weathering we may now see. In short, the fault is old, perhaps as much as 40,000,000 years, although it could be as young as 10,000,000 years as well. Without extensive research into the actual rock formations, it's very difficult to discern the actual age of the fault in question.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
I honestly do not think the Spanish colonials would have utilized any type of symbol shaped in a crescent, due to the troubles they had in their recent past with Moorish invaders, who were Muslim. As such, anything associated with the Moors was considered to be taboo and therefore I seriously doubt the Spaniards would have considered the crescent shape as part of a symbol.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[gollum]

Ellie,

Unless there is a specific reason for it being there, I would have to agree with Lamar that the crescent is merely a geological fault.

There are some people on this forum that believe EVERY oddly shaped rock and EVERY shadow is a marker to a Spanish or Jesuit Treasure. That is simply not so. The vast majority are completely natural. Now, here's the rub:

The Spanish were well known to have included natural formations that LOOKED like something they could recognize (hearts, crosses, faces, animals, etc) to mark trails and such, and yes, they also manufactured markers and monuments.

If the Spanish had manufactured one, then they would ALWAYS put a confirmation mark on that monument, to show that it was man made. Not always so on natural monuments they used.

As Lamar stated, due to the problems they had with the Moors, as well as the fact that the crescent represented a Non-Catholic belief, I highly doubt the Spanish would have used a crescent as a marker. Same way they nevere used the number 6 (unless they used it as a false lead or instruction).

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I agree with Lamar & Gully. I also wonder just 'why would' they go to soo much trouble both time and scarce labor wise?

Up at Tayopa there is a cave. On a certain day of the year at the first sun rising, the cliff just above forms a perfect Pirates skull. The eye sockets and nose are clearly defined and the cave forms the mouth.

When the Apaches were usng it, they built a small wall on the ledge in front of it. Today, with part of the wall crumbling, it looks just like teeth that need some dental work - gap toothed.

None of the local Indians know of it and wanted to know just where it was. Somehow, I just couldn't remember where. sniff. (snicker) You will see it one of these days soon ORO, and investigate it for the metal supposedly hidden at the back.

I do not think for one moment that it was man made, of course man did take advantage of it to live there. Excellent protection and water was just below. In fact the Apaches did live there in the 1800's.

Their step by step explanation on how to get there, was a further confirmation on Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Gentlemen,

I believe Ellie has made it clear that he believes the Templar's are the architects of this particular puzzle.
He has written that at one time he believed it was Spanish, but has since been dissuaded from that theory.
Perhaps we should be looking at the possibility of Templar's in America for our friendly debates.

Take care,

Joe