HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D) UPDATE new pics

[imafishingnutt]

This is what I found today on a minus tide
i detected near the water on a minus tide where you cant normally detect
and this is what I found.

UPDATE I ADDED THE TWO CLOSE UPS OF THE COIN

IMA SO EXCITED



24.5mm
Obv.: Yung Lo T'ung Pao
Rev.: Nail Mark on top left
Rarity:
Ref.: Not listed

HOLY COW ,,,,,......Reign Title: Yung Lo (1408-1424 a.d.)

However, we must take into account that in Japan during the period 1587-1617
were cast coins with the same legend
Now I'm stoked

THE COIN I FOUND...


THE ONE I FOUND RESEARCHING IT ON LINE...


​

 

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[Numinen]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Congrats on your find.
I just love that pice of history you got there!!!

 

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[Mercury dude]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

oh man very nice find, who was on second, wow that is tooooo cool to see something that old

JC

 

[Idig4beer]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Nice coin,Actually I lost that coin you have several months ago,along with the gold amathiest.I want them back please I'm going to try the coast next weekend, and maybe I'll get lucky.------The more I look at that coin,it makes wonder who said "You can't put a square peg in a round hole" Idig

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 a.d.)

Congrats on the coin. How much is something like that worth, besides being priceless to you?
Ed

I have no Ideah
probably not much

Check the post from Golden apples almost back at the top... worth 2.00 - 3.00 USD.
Very cool finding something that old...

Marks of Rareness of the Collected Currencies
Extremely Rare A ~ Very Rare B ~ Rare C ~ Not So Many D ~ Common E

 

[imafishingnutt]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Nice coin,Actually I lost that coin you have several months ago,along with the gold amathiest.I want them back please I'm going to try the coast next weekend, and maybe I'll get lucky.------The more I look at that coin,it makes wonder who said "You can't put a square peg in a round hole" Idig

Cool Look me up lets go hunting.
I have been wanting to go hunt over in Crabtree. ifin ya know where that is.

 

[hmmm]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Nice , mine looks like it was made into a necklace. i took it to a old lady, she said "we used to pick them up on the shore when we where kids"

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

hmmm - It's the same coin... Freaking old, common, worth a few bucks. Very nice.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

That sure is some coin you found! Wow, did it come out looking like that or was it all covered in crude? If you cleaned it what did you clean it with?

I just lightly rubbed it clean with some baking soda and water
the coin came out of the muck looking close to that i thought it was a washer till i saw the writing on it.
i was hoping it was an old one like from 1850 to 1900 but to my supprise it was much older
if it was made in 1424 at the latest it would be
584 years old today
I wish i could know the story of the travels behind that coin.

Read here... this outlines the probable travels of YOUR coin... which, is a very cool history. 3rd coin down...

http://ykleungn.tripod.com/mingcoin.htm

"Hung Wu T'ung Pao and Yung Lo T'ung Pao copper cash would likely have had on board Cheng Ho's ship during his sixth and seventh voyages. Copper cash minted later than Yung Lo T'ung Pao would definitely not be included."

 

[Felinepeachy]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

I'm happy for ya!!! Awesome find.

 

[Mercury dude]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

wow Jim you sure know your stuff, wow good work on finding stuff for him, wow
JC

That sure is some coin you found! Wow, did it come out looking like that or was it all covered in crude? If you cleaned it what did you clean it with?

I just lightly rubbed it clean with some baking soda and water
the coin came out of the muck looking close to that i thought it was a washer till i saw the writing on it.
i was hoping it was an old one like from 1850 to 1900 but to my supprise it was much older
if it was made in 1424 at the latest it would be
584 years old today
I wish i could know the story of the travels behind that coin.

Read here... this outlines the probable travels of YOUR coin... which, is a very cool history. 3rd coin down...

http://ykleungn.tripod.com/mingcoin.htm

"Hung Wu T'ung Pao and Yung Lo T'ung Pao copper cash would likely have had on board Cheng Ho's ship during his sixth and seventh voyages. Copper cash minted later than Yung Lo T'ung Pao would definitely not be included."

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Murcury Dude... All I know is how to use search engines... The things I post are generally correct and up to the consumer to buy or not... lol I only point in a direction... the owner of the coin must decide if it's a true antique or not... I never claim correct attribution, just what it seems to be. I give free bad advice.
I'm just putting some information out there... but I appreciate your vote of confidence.

Chinese cash coins are very cool, extreamly common and we see lots of them here. They are also confussed with Japanese, Vietnam, and a few other coins, often duplicated for charms, or are confussed with anchient charms (which are just as cool), and often counterfieted overseas for sale all over the orient.

There is on occassion a rare one... few and far between. But for the actual age it's an exciting find.

 

[vpone]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

hey fishing nut,

very nice finds - congatulations !!

you have to wonder the journey that coin took - that's what makes this hobby so great

take care,

vp

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Very well deserved old find. She sure is a beauty.

Congrats on the Banner.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

I love to attribute coins as one of my hobbies and I could not help noticing that this particular cash coin looked "different" than dozens of examples of it I have seen on the net. My interest was piqued by the differences so I started to dig a bit into the coin and finally came upon a professor who was somewhat knowledgeable on Chinese coins and asked him for his opinion.

Here is the reply with nothing edited out:

Hi Don,
It is basically a Yong Le Tong Bao (This is Pinyin romanization of the name you write below which I think is Wade-Giles romanization. However I am not sure because I do not know Chinese). The original coin was manufactured 1403-1425, but then the chinese Ming dynasty government minted it in great quantities for a century thereafter as an export coin. This coin was used throughout East Asia and many local governments in Japan and Vietnam started minting this coin as well. Japanese versions were made into the early 1600's. As you might expect there are a tremendous number of variants. This particular coin that you ask about looks like a non-Chinese make because of the thinness of the character lines--more common in Vietnam and Japan, but I could be wrong. It had corroded alot and had been aggressively cleaned so it is very hard to say much about the particular variety, and at any rate I am not such a specialist on these.

What this professor replied seems to make sense and if you read up on history of Japanese coins you will see that during that period but Japan and Vietnam sort of used Chinese coins or modified Chinese coins for their coinage.

I believe the coin is more modern, from the 1600's perhaps and as the Professor stated, most likely Japanese or Vietnamese.

As far as the original coin goes, either they are copied in great numbers or bunches of them exist, since on ebay, the original looking ones are being offered for sale cheaper than a lot of our wheat pennies are.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/40-Yong-Le-Tong-...ZViewItemQQitemZ140172619801#ebayphotohosting

Cash coins are found in great abundance in the West and I am sure every now and then some are rare finds, but I do not think this one is.
Please remember that once I inquired there was a possibility this was a RARE variant of the coin, but evidently not so, if so I am sure that news would have been greatly appreciated. If anyone else has more information I believe all can learn more history from this post.

Don

 

[Caleb in TN]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Thats a killer find,
My dad has a few put up like that one.

 

[imafishingnutt]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

I love to attribute coins as one of my hobbies and I could not help noticing that this particular cash coin looked "different" than dozens of examples of it I have seen on the net. My interest was piqued by the differences so I started to dig a bit into the coin and finally came upon a professor who was somewhat knowledgeable on Chinese coins and asked him for his opinion.

Here is the reply with nothing edited out:

Hi Don,
It is basically a Yong Le Tong Bao (This is Pinyin romanization of the name you write below which I think is Wade-Giles romanization. However I am not sure because I do not know Chinese). The original coin was manufactured 1403-1425, but then the chinese Ming dynasty government minted it in great quantities for a century thereafter as an export coin. This coin was used throughout East Asia and many local governments in Japan and Vietnam started minting this coin as well. Japanese versions were made into the early 1600's. As you might expect there are a tremendous number of variants. This particular coin that you ask about looks like a non-Chinese make because of the thinness of the character lines--more common in Vietnam and Japan, but I could be wrong. It had corroded alot and had been aggressively cleaned so it is very hard to say much about the particular variety, and at any rate I am not such a specialist on these.

What this professor replied seems to make sense and if you read up on history of Japanese coins you will see that during that period but Japan and Vietnam sort of used Chinese coins or modified Chinese coins for their coinage.

I believe the coin is more modern, from the 1600's perhaps and as the Professor stated, most likely Japanese or Vietnamese.

As far as the original coin goes, either they are copied in great numbers or bunches of them exist, since on ebay, the original looking ones are being offered for sale cheaper than a lot of our wheat pennies are.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/40-Yong-Le-Tong-...ZViewItemQQitemZ140172619801#ebayphotohosting

Cash coins are found in great abundance in the West and I am sure every now and then some are rare finds, but I do not think this one is.
Please remember that once I inquired there was a possibility this was a RARE variant of the coin, but evidently not so, if so I am sure that news would have been greatly appreciated. If anyone else has more information I believe all can learn more history from this post.

Don

I think I have to dissagree with the age because the chinese coins had a nail mark on them
as does this one.
Viet nam and japan did not pin mark them.
we will have to look deeper.
also it is thin because it has had a constant current flowing over it
It was rubbed clean by baking soda and not scrubbed
the coin doesnt look any different than when it came from the ground.
also this coin was carrried on ships as well chinese ships wich traveled to different countries looking for trades
at the time the chinese ships were the biggest in the world.
Either way its worth a bit more research
Ima

 

[imafishingnutt]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Emperor Yung Lo issued Yung Lo T'ung Pao in the sixth year of the Yung Lo reign (AD1408).
The rareness is noted as "E" but I didn't find that definition quickly scanning the site.

Don.......
Source: http://ykleungn.tripod.com/mingcoin.htm

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imafishingnutt
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Depoe Bay Oregon

Detector used: XLT

RUNNING TOTALS: 2008
Quarters: 5
Dimes: 17
Nickels: 9
Pennies: 79
Tokens: 1
Non-US Coins: 1 A 1424 AD Cash coin
Wheat Pennies: 1
Other Silver Coins: 1
Gold Items: 1
Silver Items: 1
Keys: 5


Re: coin ID help i found it with MD UPDATE HOLY COW
« Reply To This Topic #2 on: Yesterday at 09:44:41 PM » Quote Modify Remove

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats very intersting heres what I read.


Now ill try to see what rare E meens

yung Lo T'ung Pao (1408-1424)
Chu Ti (Ming Cheng Tsu), the fourth son of Emperor T'ai Tsu became the Emperor of Ming empire in 1402. He used Yung Lo as his reign and transferred the capital to Peking from Nanking.

Yung Lo Emperor revived the Ming navy by dispatching a great fleet to visit countries in South-East Asia and the Indian Ocean. A shipyard was built at the new capital of Nanking and also a school for training foreign languages was established by the Yung Lo Emperor.

In 1405, the Ming Emperor sent Cheng Ho (Zheng He) [1371-1435] as commander to started his first voyages with 62 large ships, 4 of them were approximately 138 meters long and 56 meters wide. They were the largest ships ever built in history. The Ming fleet was embarked with abount 28,000 men. The ships were filled with many Chinese goods for trading with other countries during the voyage. Cheng Ho, a Muslim from Yunnan province, who proved an excellent envoy with his great seaborne expeditions, he even reached as far as the east coast of Africa.

Emperor Yung Lo issued Yung Lo T'ung Pao in the sixth year of the Yung Lo reign (AD1408), but only limited numbers minted sporadically.
Together with the development of foreign trade, many of the Hung Wu and Yung Lo cash coins were transpored to Japan from China following the maritime trade of the three provinces of Kwangtung, Chekiang and Fukien.
On the other hand, at the end of the 10th century, the power of the Japanese government weakened, so the Japanese government suspended the mintage of coins. During the middle of the 12th century, the Japanese Heian government did not cast cash coins. The Japanese government officially allowed people to use Chinese coins for the local market in 1226, so that various kinds of Chinese coin (mainly including coins of Sung and Ming Dynasty) imported from China were used as money in Japan until the Edo Period (1636) [some of the Chinese scholars believe that the latter date is 1670]. The imported Chinese coins were known as "Toraisen" in Japan. Nowadays we still find Chinese coins easily in Japan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

"It had corroded alot and had been aggressively cleaned"


Could you post a picture before it was cleaned? Before and after pictures are nice, if you have them. Also the back.
I havent studied this coin yet, but a quick observation: doesnt the center hole look excessively large?


Thanks for the mius tide information. Im hoping this may help me on the beaches.

 

[Dig'n Bandera]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

Great find! I'd love to find something that old.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D)

This coin may have more history behind it than you realize.

There was a Chinese Junk that sank off the coast a long time ago but I can't locate the info online just now.

I came upon this information a couple years ago when I purchased a very large ca. 14th century Chinese storage jar from a diver in Oregon. It was found on the ocean floor.

If you do a search online of the area shipwrecks you should find it if it's still online.

Nice coin.