Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...? (LONG reply)
Cactusjumper wrote:
I am unsure how to answer your last post. When you say "possible".......anything is possible, but to understand the chances for Moctezuma's ashes being placed in a tomb you would need to delve deeper into the history than you are willing to do
I get the impression that you keep assuming that I have not read many history books over the years Joe. I have read enough to know that there are (rare) times when the history books are incorrect. I am not taking the position that history has it wrong where Montezuma is concerned however.
I actually own a fair library of books and have read every volume, and hope to dedicate a decent-sized room for them in my home. As it stands however I cannot even see the books, along with most of my belongings they are packed in a moving truck, unfortunately all the way to the front. If I had that to do over again, I think I would pack the books last, but the sheer weight of them suggested packing them more to the front rather than the back. In the meantime I have only our small selection of books (most obtained recently) and what our local library has, or the various material available on the internet, sometimes of very dubious reliability. I know that you have a pretty good personal library Joe, which is why I keep relying on your able memory and readily accessible resources. Do you know of some first-hand report source which states specifically what was done with the ashes of Montezuma after cremation? I sure don't. I
believe the reason for this
apparent omission in the record is that his ashes were not given any special treatment at all; so to search for his "tomb" is an exercise in imagination, rather than a search for something real. Your next statement is very much what I believe,
The rites would last around ten days. None of that seems to have taken place.
To my (admittedly dull) mind, the logical explanation is that no rites or special treatment is recorded because nothing like this occurred. I am wiling to grant that it is
POSSIBLE that something was done, surreptitiously, but before I can believe anything like that actually happened, I need to see solid proof.
I am also in agreement with you Joe, that
anything is possible but when we say "possible" it is one thing to say that the ashes of Montezuma were magically transported to a secret tomb, another to say
is it possible that someone would have gone to the trouble of gathering his ashes and this act NOT get recorded? I have trouble with this idea, that someone or some group would have bothered to take his ashes and secretly move them to the Superstitions. I still have trouble with the idea of sifting out his ashes from those of the wood, and don't know if
any of the bones would be intact - though modern cremations do usually have large bones remaining, we know that in cases of "spontaneous human combustion" that it is possible for even large bones to be reduced to ash. Would there be anything for some admirer(s) to be able to put in a tomb? I have doubts about this point. (I also have a personal experience in cremating an animal, [a pet that died] and only a single bone remained after burning overnight, even this bone was so fragile that it fell apart when I tried to move it.)
Cactusjumper also wrote:
I have no idea why anyone would try to follow bowman's reasoning, other than for a little idle amusement, but I wish you well on that convoluted journey. Not much mystery as to why he is on that trip himself. Not to worry, as he will be back shortly to give us more to ponder.
Well Joe I
try to keep an open mind even to far-fetched theories, and consider you folks to be friends worth the small effort involved for me to try to understand the ideas. It has been quite a winding path and I must admit, I remain
un-convinced of the various theories presented (running the gamut from the Lost Dutchman Mine to Montezuma's Tomb) but am willing to 'listen' (read) to any and all ideas that we are presented. Why not? I actually think that our amigo Blindbowman has in fact found
something - something that he does not understand and has been trying out various ideas (some pretty wild) to see if they will fit. He has a little different way of saying things that comes across as very absolute, definitive - for example if I found some place that I thought to be the tomb of Montezuma, I would likely say that I believe
it could be such, Blindbowman does not "
qualify" his statements but will say that
it IS the tomb of Montezuma, even if he is not fully convinced of it himself. At least that is my impression of his statements, and can be seen in a pattern over many posts and many theories. It is entertaining, if at times frustrating. Over the years I have listened to even more far-fetched ideas than Blindbowman has put forth, though I am not a believer in them either. I have a friend in the Flat Earth Society who sure presented some whoppers for instance, and another friend convinced of mind-control-implants placed in his head by the US military are another example. The fellow with the mind-control-implants was quite an accomplished finder of fossils, many of which are in some famous museums, as well as an expert in identifying fake ancient coins; my point is that a person can have some far-out ideas and still be an interesting and intelligent person. I have found that most people have at least some ideosycracies, myself included, just that many people prefer to hide these personal 'foibles' from the general public. For that matter I have some far-fetched theories of my own, that you might well find ridiculous or even comical, just that in the discussions we have had here, we are on quite a different subject or subjects.
(I have even run across a fellow who claimed to be Jesus Christ; now when we see or hear such claims, some people then will dismiss that person and everything about them which is not necessarily justified. This first fellow I met who claimed to be Christ, once we got past his identity claims, turned out to be a very talented artist and quite intelligent, just that he had an identity delusion. His habit of introducing himself as Christ put off many people, when really it was a
relatively harmless delusion on his part. He eventually recovered from his personal delusions, a long story but just an example.)
Joe I am also in agreement with you on where Montezuma's gold went too - into the canals along the line of retreat of Cortez during La Noche Triste. If I were going to try to find any of it, that is where I would start.
Good luck and good hunting Joe, (and everyone reading here) I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco