has montezumas tomb been found ...?

[dustcap]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

I WAS in West Boulder Canyon for quite some time though, and that's west of Weaver's Needle, but to be honest I wasn't really in any position to do that much exploring on this trip. I was pretty much out there to hike as much as I could and get a decent "lay of the land" so to speak so when I read about things I can picture their approximate locations in my mind.

Paul,

I'm sure you have heard of the "free" Google Earth program by now. Over the last several years (since it first came out) I have spent many, and I mean many, hours touring areas that I intend to search ahead of time using that program. I even do a "virtual fly over" from several different directions to get a real good "feel" for the terrain before I go.

Unfortunately that area of the Superstitions you were discussing in this forum on March 31st is still "undefined" as far as detail goes, but the elevations are somewhat accurate. Perhaps a little computer time using that, or similar programs would help to inform you as to what to expect so "hiking to get a lay of the land" is not required once you get there so you can spend more time on your area of interest. Of course, the view from the ground is unparalleled and is in itself a treat.

I have been in those mountains more than a few times, both on foot and on horseback and agree the trip is worth it, every time. Once you've been there you can't forget it and your mind will replay it over and over before the next trip. But I still come back saying to myself “I wish I had taken more pictures or a little more time “on that place” or “in this area.”

If you are planning on attending the LDM Rendezvous this year, try it before you come. Randy says it will be on Oct 24th ,25th and 26th. Clay Worst will be speaking Friday night. Just remember what he said on the Discovery Channel. In a nutshell "Don't ask... cause I won't tell you."

Enjoy,
Ken “dustcap” Chichester

 

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[somehiker]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/map-machine#theme=Street&c=0|0&sf=187648892.534865

Try this site Dustcap.

or this one,which may be down at the moment.

http://www.flashearth.com/

Regards:SH.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

I WAS in West Boulder Canyon for quite some time though, and that's west of Weaver's Needle, but to be honest I wasn't really in any position to do that much exploring on this trip. I was pretty much out there to hike as much as I could and get a decent "lay of the land" so to speak so when I read about things I can picture their approximate locations in my mind.

Paul,

I'm sure you have heard of the "free" Google Earth program by now. Over the last several years (since it first came out) I have spent many, and I mean many, hours touring areas that I intend to search ahead of time using that program. I even do a "virtual fly over" from several different directions to get a real good "feel" for the terrain before I go.

Unfortunately that area of the Superstitions you were discussing in this forum on March 31st is still "undefined" as far as detail goes, but the elevations are somewhat accurate. Perhaps a little computer time using that, or similar programs would help to inform you as to what to expect so "hiking to get a lay of the land" is not required once you get there so you can spend more time on your area of interest. Of course, the view from the ground is unparalleled and is in itself a treat.

I have been in those mountains more than a few times, both on foot and on horseback and agree the trip is worth it, every time. Once you've been there you can't forget it and your mind will replay it over and over before the next trip. But I still come back saying to myself “I wish I had taken more pictures or a little more time “on that place” or “in this area.”

If you are planning on attending the LDM Rendezvous this year, try it before you come. Randy says it will be on Oct 24th ,25th and 26th. Clay Worst will be speaking Friday night. Just remember what he said on the Discovery Channel. In a nutshell "Don't ask... cause I won't tell you."

Enjoy,
Ken “dustcap” Chichester

Hi Dustcap - I've spent quite a bit of time with those aerial maps as well and you're right that they do help, but I've always been the kind of person who learns from "experience" and not books. Being there in person and having someone showing you around and pointing things out to you while you look over your map makes it SO much easier to figure out the terrain.

I don't recall which thread it was in, but I noticed you're probably going to be gone during the Rendevouz. I'm actually going to be there for 2 weeks (Oct. 16 - Oct 30), and although I have some plans already for the early part of my trip, maybe we can still get together for a little bit?

PM me if you'd like.

paul

Oh - by the way, SH is right on those other 2 map websites. Flashearth is remarkable (when it's working properly) - lately it's been rather iffy though. When it's working though, use the Ask.com maps and in some areas when you zoom in, you'd almost swear you were in a helicopter hovering over the locations!

 

[thrillofthehunt]

This is an incredible Thread

I have been reading this thread for about two days on and off. I have to say i miss ole BB. He was a very interesting fellow. I don't necessarily buy into all that he was selling, but I do think he did a fantastic job of getting everyone to put on their thinking caps. He reminded me of something that I have read. I wish I could I remember where, but the title of the book I think was:

"The Legend of 13 Crystal Skulls"

The reason ole BB reminded of it was because one fo the skulls or a crystal that was found with it had either aztec markings on it. I think it was the skull. As BB was going on about the different tribes that came from Aztlan and possibly even Atlantis, I found myself beginning to put some interesting questions together in my head.

1. On one of BB maps it should a possilbe layout of the CLovis people and their trade routes......did anyone notice that they were almost all evenly spaced from the coast? Made me wonder what the elevations of the sites that he marked were and if maybe the ocean was higher back then which would have made these coastal.

2. There are pyramids on almost every major continent. How did so many different culutres build the same basic structure if they had either not learned the skills from the same place or at least had some form of communication?

3. How did the crystal skulls come to be? With the recorded equipment the tribes that supposedly possesed these skulls could not have created them.

4. Why (like the pyramids) were the skulls found all around the world, made the same basic way by different culutures that had no contact with another?

Crazy questions.....I know, but our good buddy BB tends to make me think outside the box. Which in personal opinion is the way to finding things that haven't been found. If it were that easy to find treasure and the past, there would be no more gold and we would know what happened to everyone and what time it happened.
If anyone has any answers to the above questions, please feel free to add.
JC

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

JC,

The stories of the crystal skulls have been around for quite some time. Long enough to be completely debunked. You can Google the topic and find out all about them.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4098

Now they pyramids are another story.

Take care,

CJ

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

HI Thrill: good post. let's get this going again. CJ is always game to debunk me sniff ehheeheeh

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[thrillofthehunt]

OK....lets talk pyramids

CJ....You said the pyramids are a different story altogether. So what is the story? Or at least the theory on how the basic structure of a pyramid is found on almost every continent? How did so many differnent cultures build these huge structures? Were the constructed witht he same basic math? I think I read some where that even there basic alignment is similar (Mayon/Aztec/Egyption). I do not pretend to be as well read as the folks on this site. Just reading throught this thread was totally amaizing. Honestly, one could almost write a book just on the facts stated in this thread. However, I do think that fact alone will not get anyone where they are headed. Sometimes you just have to follow your "gut" and give a theory a chance. Some call this a stab in the dark, but I call it imagination and faith. Gool ole BB, I believe, may use a bit much, but he does give all something new to think about. I hope you are all well and look forward to the up comming posts.

JC

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

JC,

I doubt there will ever be a consensus on how pyramid's made their way around the world. On the other hand, there are many, many theories.

My own theory on how they got to Egypt is a little different than most. I believe the idea may have traveled from South America across the Atlantic to Egypt. For some help with that crazy idea, I would suggest you Google "Caral". Pay special attention to the dates they have authenticated for the age of those pyramids in Peru.

It's an interesting subject, with lots of possibilities.

Take care,

CJ

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Jose,

"HI Thrill: good post. let's get this going again. CJ is always game to debunk me sniff"

I am Soooo.....misunderstood. It's nothing personal. I try to debunk everything and everyone, sometimes even myself. In the process I learn an amazing amount of interesting stuff.

Getting back to the Guarijio....... I have an interest in their history and would love to hear some of your personal experiences with them. If you could name a few of the people you know, last names, I might have some information on some of their ancestors.

I assume they still live in fairly small communities, as the land doesn't promote large villages or towns. That may be all old history and things may have changed, but that seems unlikely given their long history in that place.

If you have the time, could you give us some of your personal insight?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Good afternoon CJ my friend: Unfortunately I only know them by their first names, not by the family ones They in turn know me as Don Jose,.and my friend, as Don Triny

One group lives west of the rio Mayo, north of San Bernardo. Another in the sierras, others are scattered throughout the Range in small family groups or individual families. The ones nearest San Bernardo are the most affluent, they just recently received electricity, and of course a road. In fact the governor visited them early this year.

The ones that have the goat skin map, live north of Navojoa on the rio Mayo.on the flat lands. Incidentally being on the flat lands is why one part of the goat skin map was damaged. The rio Mayo flooded them one year.

They are NOT a prosperous group, in fact we have gathered used clothes for them from the American colony each Christmas.
,
Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[thrillofthehunt]

BB's Theory on Wabble

Next question for anyone that wants to take a stab at it......What about BB's theory on the wabble of the earth. He mentioned several times and interesting math to go along with it. I never noticed anyone really try to debunk or agree with calculations. Personally, I'm not entirely sure that it isn't impossible to some extent. I have read theories on this subject before and it is documented that the earth has had multiple ice ages due to who knows what. Some scientists seem to know some of the symptoms, but really the actuall root of why the ice ages begin. Could it be "BB's Wabble"? And if there is some periodic change in the way the earth rotates is it possible that there have been mass extinctions of man for the past 60,000 years? Furthermore is it possible that some of these civilizations new it was coming and when (Mayan Calendar)? I am simply curious.....I also have wondered if there is any connections to these possible theories to ancient lost treasures. Not for their gold and jewels but for their possible knowledge. I wonder if somewhere in some unfound Egyption/Aztec/Mayan tomb doesn't hold the key to some of these questions.

JC

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Jose,

Many thanks for your reply.

My knowledge of the Guarijio is limited to what I have read. Having said that, I can tell you that I have read David Yetman's very detailed history of the people and their land.

The Rio Mayo travels through a lot of "flat lands" north of Navajoa and Alamos. Are the people with the map above or below Presa Mocuzari? I would assume they are above, and no further below, than San Bernardo. You are in a bird watchers paradise in that country.

"....others are scattered throughout the Range in small family groups or individual families."

They have lived that way, and in that place, since 1300 or earlier. Their territory was much larger before Cortez arrived, extending farther east and south than their present loose boundaries.

They were considered quite warlike by the Jesuits, who arrived, I believe, in the early 1600s. Gold and silver had been discovered by the Spaniards in the surrounding mountains. When the Guarijio's and their Guazapare allies rebelled, killing two Jesuits in the processs, the Spanish killed 800 members of the two tribes in retaliation. In addition, many women and children were taken as captives and sent to the missions in Sinaloa. The survivors hid from the Spaniards/Jesuits for more than thirty years.

That was not the last time the Guarijio would revolt, and they became much better at it.

There are a number of other studies that have been done on the Guarijio, but I am hooked on Yetman's narrative. It's extensive, and he draws on many of the others for a good deal of the historical details.

In truth, the Guarijio or Warihios as they have been called, remind me of the "Wild Apache" of the Sierra Madre. "The Apache Diaries" by Grenville Goodwin & Neil Goodwin, paints an amazing parallel picture of the Guarijio people. The Apache arrived in that country much later than the Guarijio...........we are told.

All in all, it's a great story. Historically rich and turbulent. Beyond Tayopa, you must be having a ball.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Greetings,
This will be a pretty long reply so I must beg your indulgence.

Thrillofthehunt wrote:

I have been reading this thread for about two days on and off. I have to say i miss ole BB. He was a very interesting fellow. I don't necessarily buy into all that he was selling, but I do think he did a fantastic job of getting everyone to put on their thinking caps. He reminded me of something that I have read. I wish I could I remember where, but the title of the book I think was:

"The Legend of 13 Crystal Skulls"

The reason ole BB reminded of it was because one fo the skulls or a crystal that was found with it had either aztec markings on it. I think it was the skull.

I also regret that our amigo Blindbowman has quit treasure hunting and gone on to greener pastures, and agree with you that despite how far-out some of his theories struck me, he did get us (or me anyway) to take another look at many things and do a lot of fact-checking. Our friend Cactusjumper has addressed the question of the crystal skulls, but I cannot completely agree that they have been completely debunked. The smaller crystal skulls which have features that closely resemble Aztec representations of skulls have not yet been proven to be 19th century European creations. They may yet prove to be exactly that, but as far as I am aware there are several of these smaller skulls which have not been PROVEN to be European+modern.

Thrillofthehunt also wrote:

As BB was going on about the different tribes that came from Aztlan and possibly even Atlantis, I found myself beginning to put some interesting questions together in my head.

1. On one of BB maps it should a possilbe layout of the CLovis people and their trade routes......did anyone notice that they were almost all evenly spaced from the coast? Made me wonder what the elevations of the sites that he marked were and if maybe the ocean was higher back then which would have made these coastal.

Blindbowman's map showing Clovis sites did appear to be evenly spaced but he had not marked a great number of Clovis sites which are concentrated on the east coast of the continent, especially around the Chesapeake bay region which is the most concentrated evidence of Clovis people anywhere. It is a certainty that the oceanic levels were considerably lower during Clovis days.

Thrillofthehunt also wrote:

2. There are pyramids on almost every major continent. How did so many different culutres build the same basic structure if they had either not learned the skills from the same place or at least had some form of communication?

As our friend Cactusjumper has pointed out, you have hit upon one of the great mysteries of history. The historians insist that the idea of building pyramids was independently invented several times around the world, which is not supported by the evidence. There was even a four part miniseries on the Discovery channel that tried to "prove" that this is the case, yet in fact we have evidence that the idea of building pyramids certainly "sprouted" in Egypt, where they went from building Moustaba ("bench") type tombs to stacking them, creating the classic stepped pyramid, to the true pyramid. This does not prove that the Egyptians invented pyramids, and worse, there is no such evidence to show that any other culture developed pyramid-building in this way. Cactusjumper cited the adobe pyramids of Caral for example, which are older than the Egyptian pyramids. This would suggest that the idea of building pyramids might well have been transmitted from the Americas to Africa! On the other hand, we do have structures closer to Egypt that closely resemble pyramids and are older than the Egyptian pyramids - the Ziggurats of Mesopotamia. These structures are technically stepped pyramids, though built of adobe bricks and the earliest dates to about~5300 BC. (The oldest Egyptian pyramid dates to pharaoh Djoser about 2670 BC. while Caral seems to have begun about 2700-2600 BC)

Pyramid at Caral

Pyramid of Djoser

Ziggurat of Ur

There are also pyramids in China that some claim are older than the Egyptian pyramids, but as far as I have been able to ascertain the earliest Chinese pyramid is that of the first emperor dating to about 200 BC.

Pyramid of the Empress Wu in China

Thrillofthehunt also wrote:

Crazy questions.....I know, but our good buddy BB tends to make me think outside the box. Which in personal opinion is the way to finding things that haven't been found. If it were that easy to find treasure and the past, there would be no more gold and we would know what happened to everyone and what time it happened.
If anyone has any answers to the above questions, please feel free to add.
JC

Thinking "outside the box" might very well be the way to find some of the great lost treasures, I hope you will share some of your ideas.

Thrillofthehunt also wrote:

Next question for anyone that wants to take a stab at it......What about BB's theory on the wabble of the earth. He mentioned several times and interesting math to go along with it. I never noticed anyone really try to debunk or agree with calculations. Personally, I'm not entirely sure that it isn't impossible to some extent. I have read theories on this subject before and it is documented that the earth has had multiple ice ages due to who knows what. Some scientists seem to know some of the symptoms, but really the actuall root of why the ice ages begin. Could it be "BB's Wabble"? And if there is some periodic change in the way the earth rotates is it possible that there have been mass extinctions of man for the past 60,000 years? Furthermore is it possible that some of these civilizations new it was coming and when (Mayan Calendar)? I am simply curious.....I also have wondered if there is any connections to these possible theories to ancient lost treasures. Not for their gold and jewels but for their possible knowledge. I wonder if somewhere in some unfound Egyption/Aztec/Mayan tomb doesn't hold the key to some of these questions.

Blindbowman's mathematics were pretty good, though there were some leaps of logic included. The Earth does wobble on it's axis, which affects our climate worldwide and is believed to affect the cycle of Ice-ages and warmer periods. The onset of an Ice age obviously would have powerful detrimental effects on the human population living anywhere other than in the tropics, and this is evidenced by several DNA "bottlenecks" found by researchers recently. For a civilization to have foreknowledge of an Ice Age coming on, there would have had to be a civilization in existence prior to the Ice Age, and we do not have much evidence to show that humans were living in any sort of civilization at such an early period. There is evidence that some sort of civilizations did start to exist during our last Ice Age, and these proto-civilizations apparently did not survive the end of the Ice Age which seems to have ended fairly suddenly. This would tend to suggest that these early settlements had little or no foreknowledge of the approaching climatic changes, or they would have taken steps to save themselves and their culture. Of course we do have the story of Noah and Gilgamesh (and Deukalion, who were forewarned of the coming great flood (which might correspond to the end of the Ice Age and a sudden warming of the planet) but their warnings came only through supernatural sources and not from any scientific deductions. I could be completely wrong, the stories of a great flood could be total fantasies etc or perhaps the flood survivors did learn of the coming calamity through their sciences and this fact has been lost by mythologizing the events, but based on what we have there is no suggestion of any scientific predictions being used by Noah, Gilgamesh, Deukalion, Ogyges, Dardanus, etc. The Mayan calendar has a "start date" of either 3114 BC or 3374 BC (authorities disagree on this) so is well after the end of the last Ice Age (about 9000 BC). It is strange that several ancient cultures had "great years" which appear to correlate to the wobble of the Earth and the odd precession of the constellations, (around 25800 years) and even longer time measures that would appear to be useless considering the whole of recorded history does not amount to a single Great Year. This does suggest that humanity may have a considerably longer history than we currently accept.

*Interesting online article on the Mayan calendar
http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-mayan.html

As for the possibility of lost ancient knowledge (pre-Flood) which we may be able to discover, according to several ancient flood myths, men did record much of their history and scientific knowledge onto pillars (a pair of pillars in several versions, one being built of brick and the other of stone) and as far as I know, these twin pillars have never been found. Just my opinion but I believe that such pillars were erected and did exist, perhaps they have since fallen down or collapsed, or simply been buried by deposits of sediments but that one day someone will discover one or both of them. The problem then will be to try to decipher whatever system of writing they may have used. As to where these pillars might be found, I would suspect that they are most likely underwater today, perhaps in the Persian Gulf off the coast of Iraq/Kuwait or further south near Aden. Another pre-Flood "treasure" of lost ancient knowledge as well as the remains of biblical patriarchs and "treasures" of the more common sort, the Cave of Treasures, may one day also be discovered - however the cave was sealed thousands of years ago so unless some natural earthquake, erosion, or modern development should uncover it there is little chance of ever finding it.

I hope this is of some help to answer your very interesting questions amigo, good luck and good hunting I hope you and everyone here finds the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[thrillofthehunt]

Now that is what I like about this forum

The men and women on this forum are an incredible mass of information. I would like to thank all of you answering these questions and wonderings of my mind.

Next question: If the pyramids did originate from one area, how did it spread. Sea going vessels of the time were not as they are today or even 400 hundred years ago. It seems to me that it would have almost been a suicide mission to try and sail the Atlantic ocean. Set asside weather, just hauling enough water would be seem impossible and that is assuming that they could catch enough fish to eat for the long journey. How could ancient people have pulled off such an incredible journey, not to just one continent, but to several continents. It seems to me that there an original origin of knowledge is more plausible than the maritime theory. It also seems to stand to reason that people that scattered from this orgin (for whatever reason) would have had to land somewhere and then find a new homeland which could have varied in time. Once each parties new homeland was determined, then it would make sense that knowledge passed down would be relearned or put into practice once food and water was stabalized to support a new civilization.

I my path of thought is somewhere near plausible then it would make sense that most if not all pyramid building societies would have come from one area with a base knowledge. My question is: If all of these cultures built pyramids in some form or fashion, what other common threads do they have that could link them to one "mega-culture"? Religion, gods, writing, cummonication, customs, potery, tools, transportation, farming, hunting....etc.

Thanks in advance for your answers and input. I am asking these questions simply out of curiousity. My personal theory is that each of tribes of larger civiliztion disbanded due to extreme times, taking with them core beliefs and living patterns. I wonder if each of these tribes took their own evidence of the past "mega-culture" with them and if in some way it is possible to piece the puzzle back together. Call it reverse engineering.

JC

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

good evening:

first CJ: the Guasapares are to the East of the Chinapas, some 60 air miles east of the Guaijiros.
**************************************************************************************
You -->
"Are the people with the map above or below Presa Mocuzari?"
~~~~~~~~~~~
Presently to the west and north; west side of the rio Mayo.
*************************************************************************************
You -->
"The Apache arrived in that country much later than the Guarijio"
~~~~~~~~~
Yes, prob in the latter 1600's. Most tribes did not consider them as excellent fighters, mostly ambush types.
*************************************************************************************
You -->
You are in a bird watchers paradise in that country.
~~~~~~~~
You have to see the Cuu a, a smaller tailed version of the Quetzal Beautiful solitary birds, beautiful.
pink feet, rose breasts white outlined, green backs, white rimmed eyes, and many with rose coored heads. Similar to a humming bird with iridescent colors. They are very solitary birds, and will not live in captivity.

Theyare very curious of everything. I have had them follow me for miles while riding a mule, I enjoyed their company very much.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Thriil you posted a question about the Earth's wobble-->
~~~~~~~~
Regarding the earth's wobble, yes, this is what causes winter and summer. No wobble, no sea +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




Oro -->??

Pyramids, what about the Shensi Pyramids in China? I flew over them in 1946. I admit that they are dirt filled ones, but huge.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



There seems to be a thing called collective conscience, since many advances in science occur simultaneously with no known contact. Telepathy??

~~~~~~~~~

Start of man? if one reads the bible the first pages tell of the world being destroyed prior to we present inhabitants ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Jose,

"first CJ: the Guasapares are to the East of the Chinapas, some 60 air miles east of the Guaijiros."

My comment was:

"When the Guarijio's and their Guazapare allies rebelled, killing two Jesuits in the processs, the Spanish killed 800 members of the two tribes in retaliation."

The revolt took place in 1632, and the two tribes fought as one. They were neighbors at the time, but each had their own distinct language.

Thanks for your reply.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lamar]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Dear group;

"I also regret that our amigo Blindbowman has quit treasure hunting and gone on to greener pastures, and agree with you that despite how far-out some of his theories struck me, he did get us (or me anyway) to take another look at many things and do a lot of fact-checking."

Blindbowman caused me consider that research in the area of mental health still has a long way to go. I have no doubt that the poor man was a raving lunatic, but on the other hand, I am sure that he provided hours of entertainment at social gatherings. His *theories* were an atrocious blend of popular mysticism combined with psuedo-history. Eventually his posts became so disjointed that I had to stop reading his posts, much to my dismay, for I feel that everybody has a positive contribution to add to a topic, no matter how hidden it may seem to be.

To continue with the topic. It has often been surmised that pyramid building on various continents provides positive proof of intercontinental inter-action between races of humans, or at the very least, adds weight to the theory. This is not necessarily true, however. Many tribes have built pyramids at one point or other during their existence on Earth and the best reason for this is also the simplest reason to understand.

It is simply because a pyramid is the easiest structure one can build. It requires practically no math or feats or engineering, my friends. Because the pyramid is the only simple geometric shape which is self-supporting, it requires no foundation preparation and no supprts, such as beams, vaults or groins. Pyramid construction is quite simple in respect to other architectural forms, my friends. Ons simply decides the dimensions of the individual blocks, lays out a square in accordance to the multiples of the block, lays the first foundation blocks, then builds upwards from there. Because the structure remains self-supporting at all phases of construction, a pyramid can be built over a periods of years or even centuries without having to re-construct any previous portion of the prior construction.

Because the pyramid shape is so perfectly suited to to withstand long term effects of errosion and deteroration, practically all pryamids which were constructed thousands of years ago remain standing today. In order to further understand that the construction of pyramids by many different ancient socitities are totally unrelated to each other, one must first grasp the concept that man is man. We are NOT truly unigue individuals, we are a very highly evolved species, yet as men, we all share certain common genetic markers with one another and with our common ancestors.

Look at dogs. They are all dogs, yet they come in many shapes, sizes and colors. They also have individual traits common to their particular breed, such as the ability to retrieve or track a scent and they also have unique traits that are attributed only to one certain dog. This causes us to consider many dogs to be almost human-like in many regards. Yet, as a species, they are all dogs. They all bark and they all wag their tails. And what is more important, they all come with instincts. And so do humans.

The argument that because pyramids exist in Asia, the Americas and in Africa leads many to believe that there was some sort of inter-action between the tribes of these continents, but this simply is not so. We can use the mythical dragon as a prime example of similiarities between human traits. The dragon myth has existed for almost along as man started drawing on the walls of caves. In fact, a Christian saint was reputed to have a slain one, that being St. George, of course.

Now, we all know that dragons do not exist, and they never did exist. Dragons were a way for early humans to attempt understanding that which they could not understand, and so, all socities of humans incorporated dragons into their tribal legends. The Chinese, Europeans, the Egyptians, all of the Asians, and even the Australian aborigines had tales of dragons. This does not mean that dragons were flying about in those days, what it means is that our common ancestors had a need to apply a focus to their unrealized fears and so, in making the dragon a reality, they were able to place all of the unforeseen bad and evil parts of their existence into one flying creature.

That so many ancient socitities had their own version of a dragon shows that mankind thought, and still thinks, along certain pre-determined channels. That every ancient socitiety had different unique visions of what their dragon should have looked like shows that we all possess a certain amount of individuality.

This same individual uniqueness is further evidenced in the design and construction of pyramids. All ancient pyramid building socitities had pyramids, yet each socititys' pyramids are markedly different from all other ancient socitities. The pyramids of Eygpt had outer shells stuccoed to them, to make them appear as smooth, brillant white structures, while the ones in lower Mexico and Central America were adorned with carvings and outer stairways leading to the top, etc.

And now, on to the crystal skulls.

The crystal skulls have been recently proven as fakes, however one does not need a electron microscope or other such fancy hardware to ascertain that the skulls are fake. All one has to do is to study the culture that the skulls supposedly came from for a bit. Knowing what we do of the artistic renderings of the pre-Columbian tribes, we can conclude that the natives could only have carved the skulls one of two ways. Either as exact duplicates of a real human skull or as a unique rendering common only to the particular tribe which supposedly carved the skull.

The skulls are not exact duplicates of a real skulls, nor do they have any of the unique artistic licensing found on other pre-Columbian artworks, rather, they are decidedly middle European based, this judging from the artistic licensing which was utilized. The pecular grotesque forms of the skulls in question closely follows the same style of art seen throughout Europe from the late 1700s throughout the early 1900s.

Oddly enough, the art form that the crystal skulls were modelled after originated in North Africa in the form of local carvings, which were then sold to the Europeans as souvenirs. The art style quickly faded from North Africa but remained strong in Europe, to such a point that European craftsmen began carving the wooden figurines and then marketing them as African souvenirs.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Good morning CJ very good as usual. As for being neighbors, you had the Guaijiros to the west, a group near the present Macuzari damn, the Alamos group (I don't remember tjheir designation either ), the Chinapas, then, the Guazapares.

Half of the time they were at war with each other since food and females were a scarce item. A war of survival.

Native American life was not a bed of roses. The noble American living an idyllic life in harmony with nature, is a myth given by authors that simply do not know what they are talking about and the movies for following them..

When you consider that each mesquite tree had an owner, it might give you an idea just how hard things were.

Don Jose de La Mancha

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Good morning my very good friend Lamar: You post excellent data, I enjoy them. As for the pyramid, like the dragons, it is quite curious that their belief and construction apparently arose in the same periods when supposedly there was no intercommunication..

On the pyramids, you are quite correct, it, and a mound, are are basically the only structures which are self sustaining. the angles of the sides are self policing. The qualitative difference is that a pyramid is never found in nature, hence it sets itself off as a work of man " I built this in honor of myself"

Regarding dragons, I can agree with you on the psychological aspects, however I tend to disagree with you on the physiological factor. How did they arrive at a common dragon shape, with again, no intercommunication?

Also evidence is "slowly" surfacing since the discovery of the Komodo dragons in the 1700's, that the possibility also exists that they evolved in various other parts of the world also. Is it also possible that in our still very limited knowledge, that perhaps Pterodactyls,or a form of Pterosaurs existed in man's memory??

On the crystal skulls, I haven't gone into that so I am not in a position to say other than one was supposedly examined by experts who declared that whoever had made it, understood the unique manner of high lighting the various features by an internal type of construction similar to prisms.

They say that it would be extremely difficult to to create a similar type of of figure today, and they cannot understand how it could have been done with primitive instruments.

Sigh, it is apparent that what we know, is infinitesimal compared to what we do not know.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[lamar]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Dear Real de Tayopa;
You have asked an excellent question:

"Regarding dragons, I can agree with you on the psychological aspects, however I tend to disagree with you on the physiological factor. How did they arrive at a common dragon shape, with again, no intercommunication? "

And the answer lies in our common ancestoral kin. It's a very difficult concept for most people to wrap their brains around, however it seems to hold true, my friend. The oddity that many civilizations each had their own form of dragons can not be answered by ESP or telecommunication, or even physical inter-actions, my friend.

The answer is that all of us, as members of the human species, share common thought threads. In other words, we all think alike, inside of the parameters of our society. For example, man discovered the benefits of fire throughout his world, at roughly the same time. This is not to state that one super-human travelled the world over, bringing the knowledge of fire with him, rather, the genetic markers inside of all humans responded at roughly the same time period.

This can be rationalized as like having a sort of intellectual alarm clock housed inside of us. At a certain point in our ancestors existence, the need to cook the flesh of animals and have an outide source of warmth became such that the discovery of fire became a necessity, first in the clodest climes then eventually filtering downwards to encompass mankind as a whole. And so, as tribes or early humans discovered the benefits of fire, they either survived as a race or theu perished, depending on their ability to keep pace with the ebb and flow of the Earth and all of It's creatures.

For lack of a better word, we call this genetic trait *instinct*. At the dawn of mans' existence, instinct played a key role in his survival as a species, however as time wore on, man began to gain intellect, thereby gradually losing some instinct as it became less important with the increase in knowledge.

To sum up, man naturally built pyramids as monuments, just as man naturally concieved the existence of dragons, just as man naturally discovered the bow and arrow, just as man naturally developed the wheel, so on and so forth. The comparisons between socities distanced by thousands of miles are endless my friend. In fact,t here are so many comparisons that they cannot be overlooked or explained as mere coincidence.

As far as I am aware, I am the person who first proposed this unusual theory, and while it remains to be proven using scientific methods, the evidence which I have found linking various ancient socities together is overwhelming.

Think of it this way, my friend. When each of us is born, we each have a *sphere* which surrounds us. Naturally, there is no sphere, but think of your existence as a sphere, with yourself in the center of this sphere. When we are born, we are limited to the things which we can or can not do, therefore our intellectual sphere is very small, however as we grow, our spheres also grow, exponentially, until we attain adulthood, when each new action, or lack of, brings about a new variable. The edges of our intellectual spheres are the limits of our variables, therefore they are not infinite, however we are free to move about, as intellectuals, within our spheres.

As humans progress as a race with each new generation, each successive generations' sphere becomes larger, due to the expansion of thought processes from the preceeding generation, therefore the generation of humans in the future will have larger spheres, and thus have more intellectual options at their disposal than we do, in exactly the same way as we have more intellectual decisions at our disposal than our fathers had.

In other words, as modern humans, we think more cohesively and we have better problem solving abilities than did our ancestors, and these traits are genetically passed along to our children, to become part of the future generation. And so, why are we, as humans, compelled to do this? Because we are pre-destined to do this, that's why. Call it instinct or whatever you wish, the fact remains is that it does happen, just as it has been happening since the dawn of Creation. As a species, we have a deep seated instinctual desire to procreate and pass our knowledge on to our children. If this was not such a deep part of our existence, our lineage as a species would have been snuffed out before man left the caves.

Now to continue, towards the beginning of mans' existence, there were only so many intellectual variables that he could choose, therefore early man made decisions based on a very small realm of possibilities. Based on this, there were only so many decisions that early man could make, based on his crude intellect and prior experiences.

One creature which man has always feared has been reptiles. This is not from the old Testament, rather the writers of the Old Testament are prime examples of typical thought process. Man has always had a very real fear of reptiles, most likely because so many members of the reptile family are dangerous and some are even deadly. We percieve them as cold, slimy, creatures, most unnatural and as such, they must be the incarnation of evil. Call this what you will, but the truth is that man has always been instinctly afraid of reptiles, yet another fine example of my theory.

And so, what would man use to personify his worst fears? A mythical animal based upon a reptile of course! Mythical creatures of old are not unlike scary movies of today, my friend, in fact our love of scary movies is not a new concept, it's one which goes back to our very beginnings.

In order to make a dragon semi-lifelike, it had to have some basic features found in nature outside of our doors. Reptiles exist practically everywhere and because man is instinctively fearful of reptiles, that was the perfect choice for a dragon. The dragon was instinctively the personification of all of early mans' most grave fears, the snake-like body, the ability to travel on wings without a sound like an eagle, the deadly claws, the fiery breath, the instincts of a lion or tiger, the venom dripping from it's fangs, etc.

We know that dragons did not exist, yet in the deep dark abyss of our minds, they are very real and dragons aid us in de-mystifying evil and they help to illuminate the halls of our fears. And beyond this point:

HIC SUNT DRACONES!
Your friend;
LAMAR