Gold ll escudos

Morning old man,
I was not upset with you about anything my friend.
I am just trying to get some information on the Gold coins that were minted in Spain.
I AM a little upset with the people that are saying that THEIR coins are the rarest gold coins to be found in the New World. They are advertising this as a FACT but your coins shows me that is NOT TRUE.
Just because something was recovered from the ATOCHA does not make it PRICELESS.
I am now a member of the Granada Mint Restortation Society and expect to get more information on Gold coins minted in Spain.
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

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TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
First I want to give everyone the folloing website.
www.newworldtreasures.com/goldcoins.html
Please take special notice of the information provided on Item#: 6039
Pay close attention to their asking price--$22,800.00.
As you can see this Gold II Escudo was minted in SEVILLE SPAIN.
I have been asked many times about my talking about the value in $$$. The reason that I do this is simply because I have over 29 of these so called trinkets with 14 in almost mint condition.
Everything has a value. I have enough HISTORICAL items sitting in my workshop as it is. My wife is the collector of JUNK-(I am not). Don't ge me wrong. I do not put anyone down for what they want to hold and collect. That is their choice but for me if is has NO value that I can pass on when I am gone then I see no reason to keep it.
Of course that is ME.
Trez, As soon as I have information from Granada I will see that you get a copy.
Old man, I sure would like to see a photo of your gold coins.
Peg Leg
 

Peg, if you look, that is not from Mel Fishers museum, that is another coin seller. Do some research and you will find that the coins that were minted in South America had a S for Seville, as they said that all coins minted should be the same. For a while anyway. For a couple years they had an S for Seville, but were minted in Nuevo Reino SA. Later they were marked NR and RN. The same assayer had 4 different assay marks. I am sure the museum would know about this as its common knowledge. Dont go by some coin re-saler that says they are worth a fortune because they are S and found on the Atocha. They just trying to make money. Steve.
 

Stevemc,
I understand this (BELIEVE ME I DO).
I also think that I posted SOMWEHERE the website where this Gold coins was being sold. Both coins are close to looking the same but they are NOT the same design. This is why I have asked the OLD MAN to send me a copy of some of his GOLD coins.
tHANKS
Peg Leg
 

oh goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
is my treasure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
it.s mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it.s mine and only mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ç+
goooold
 

raul said:
oh goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
is my treasure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
it.s mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it.s mine and only mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ç+
goooold
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Hey Raul,

With all due respect.....I am not sure I understand your reply to this thread or your other thread, where you posted
I am already in catch me if you can.
Could you please explain these to us......

Thanks,

Chagy.......
Click to expand...
 

stevemc,
I said that the gold coin was being offered by a website that CLAIMS that the coin came from the ATOCHA.
Correct me if I am wrong but do the Fisher Group have the exclusive rights to recover treasure from the ATOCHA especially when it was 150 Gold Coins SAID to have been minted in Seville Spain.
If I am correct this would mean that the Fisher people MUST be aware that these coins are being offered as from the ATOCHA. If THEY are aware and this is NOT TRUE and this is a scam of somekind then to me this is AIDDING and ABETTING a scam. How about YOU doing a little more research before you start pointing a finger.
This may upset a few members of this forum-SO WHAT. The TRUTH shall come out regardless of who likes it and who does not.
Peg Leg
 

I feel he has looked at a coin reseller website and believes that since they say that the gold coins found on the Atocha were minted in Spain, and worth $22,500.00, he believes that bunk, and that they are the same as his and worth that. I am just trying to let him know about where they(Atocha gold cobs) were made, and how they were marked. I also just want a good picture of his. It is hard to say what he has without even a picture. There are gold cobs of all sizes, 2 reales too, selling on Ebay in XF condition every day for $1000 + or -, that are perfect XF coins. Some new world, some old world stampings, earlier and newer than the Atocha. Most gold 2 reales sort of look the same to an untrained eye, discounting wear and stamping offset etc. Steve.
 

This is news to me about Gold 2 reales coins. As far as what I have been able to find is that there were NO gold reales period.
I am not trying to say that my coins are worth anywhere near what the PEOPLE on the website are asking which I think is a JOKE.
These people ARE saying that the Gold II Escudos ARE from Seville Spain and were recovered from the ATOCHA-all 150 of them.
Now IF there were 150 of these coins recovered from the ATOCHA. Then I see no reason WHY my 29 coins could not have been recovered from a 1715 wreck off the East Coast of Florida by the Indians. In fact I will venture to say that these coins were not from the 1715 wrecks but were lost from a ship GOING TO CUBA and not coming from CUBA. It seems that EVERYONE assumes that all the ship wrecks happened while coming from CUBA. How many Researchers have spent time trying to figure the number of ships that never made it to CUBA-not many if any at all. WHY is this? The answer is simple. There was NO TREASURE ($$$$) involved. So it DOES boil down to Dollars and Cents no matter what is said or what some people may think. Even the State of Florida could care less if it was just a regular ship and not a Treasue Ship. It could have been a Pirate ship that was carrying these coins.
BUT we will never know the reason these coins were thereor how there got to where I recovered them. The FACT is that these coins WERE minted in Granada Spain and were Hammered. However there is another MYSTERY. The shield is the shield of Philip III. Philip II shield has 2 lines at the bottom of the shield on the left hand side and my coins have 3 lines.
I expect to have more information from Granada Spain soon and I will post what they say. To be honest I started out trying to find who the assayer was and things got deeper and deeper.
This has been a TRIP for me to try and run everything down and I do wish to thank everyone for their help in this VENTURE.
As far as the value of my coins let me say this. THERE ARE ONLY VALUED ACCORDING TO WHAT A BUYER IS WILLING TO PAY AND NOT A PENNY MORE.
Peg Leg
 

Have a little news to report.
I have found the assayer "oD".
But he was in Lima Peru. BUT his father was also known as "oD" and he was in Granada Spain.
There were also NO GOLD II ESCUDOS COINS minted in Spain from 1598 to 1700. The ONLY gold Escudo II coins that were minted between 1556 and 1578 DURING the reign of Philip II.
This tidbit of information I received from the Granada Mint Restoration Society in Granada Spain jut late last night.
More information to come.
Peg Leg
 

No Sir, I didn't.
I would sure like to see a photo of your other gold coins.
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

PegLeg, I didnt read all of your post, I got to the part about coming from Europe. They went in a circle when they came here. The ships could not go to weather or against the current. They left Europe, and went South till they got off Equatorial Africa, and then they crossed over to the Caribean or even South America. Then they returned home up from Cuba, through the Straights of Florida and at Cape Canaverel, they angled NE, and when they passed Bermuda, they angled straight into Spain. Of course they minted Gold coins in Spain in the time period that you spoke of!
 

That I can understand BUT what about the ships that traveled UP and DOWN the East Coast. There were ships that went from St. Augustine to Cuba and other places. A NOREASTER can be at times like a Hurricane but last much much longer.
Peg Leg
 

Yep! You are right. Ships did go up and down the coasts. Now let see some pics of those coins in question.
 

Morning Stevemc,
As you already know my gold coins are with my son in Texas in a safe deposit box.
However my son being a DAV is at the present time is in the VA hospital in Amerillo and will not be able to go and get a few of the coins for me. BUT he is expected to be back home in about 2 weeks and at that time he will send me 2 of the coins.
I will photograph these 2 coins and send you a photo of them.
This is the best I can do right now.
The Historical Society in Granada Spain has said that the coins in question COULD have been minted in 2 different locations. 1 in Spain and the other in Peru. As far as the assayer is concerned there were 2 who used the "oD". The first was used by the father of the assayer in Peru. The father trained his son in the art of assaying.
The coins that I have appear to have been assayed by the father during the reign of Philip II no later than 1568. From this time till the 1700's there were NO Gold coins minted anywhere in Spain including Seville.
During this time all gold coins were minted in the New World. However the dies/stamps WERE made in Spain and shipped to all the different Spanish mints in the New World.
check this out.
www.segoviamint.org/english/coins/b-coins/catagory_b_coins.htm
This shows all the coins minted at the "Old Segovia Mint" and what was minted and when.
There was a lot of things going on during this time as you will read.
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

ole.Grubstake said:
Ok Peg Leg-------I have notice what Cornelius has said is right. You do seem to mention worth in your posts which is cool. We all have our reasons for liking our coins. I never mention worth cause it doesn't mean crud to me. I like the History and what a coin could say to me if it could talk. What hands did it pass through and what did it see? Here is a pile of coppers that I have pulled up past the guardians of the reef. Now that I have a digital camera courtesy of Diving Doc with an underwater case, I can post pics other than scans. I am finding out that some people like them uncleaned. Gads! I am a novice at this. I myself prefer the gleam of clean metal. Anyway take a gander at the assortment of these beauties from my two wrecks. When I get a chance I'll do the silver also for you guys. The majority of them are from the shallow wreck. I have been pestering Whites to get me a Pulse Induction system that will null iron like the minelab. This next year Whites is going to surprise the industry with a new analog detector that will rock minelab. I have been after them for two years now and finally have squeaked enough to get my way. Now I am after them for a VLF that will go deep. When your on the bottom you only have so much time before decompression becomes a factor. I hate spending time digging everything at 100 feet. So ya'all keep your eyes open for the Whites new baby.
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Wow Grub--very impressive. Your posts and pics always amaze me. Thanks.
 

Pegleg wrote:The coins that I have appear to have been assayed by the father during the reign of Philip II no later than 1568. From this time till the 1700's there were NO Gold coins minted anywhere in Spain including Seville


From http://www.segoviamint.org/english/history.htm (these were both silver and gold coins, were they not?)


On June 1, 1585, the new machinery arrived in Segovia in what is now considered to have been the largest expedition for the transfer of industrial technology ever undertaken up until then. The first trial coins rolled off the machines within four weeks of their arrival and by March of 1586 the Mint began regular production of coins.

During the next 100 years, Segovia had two completely different mints which functioned simultaneously but totally independent from each other. The Old Segovia Mint, governed by the Royal Treasury, only issued hammer-struck pieces; while Philip II's new Mill Mint, governed by his own private Royal House, always issued mechanically produced coins.

The novel German coining technology was capable of producing large, nearly flawless, coins due to the enormous pressure applied to the metallic strips as they passed between the rollers. Compared with the crude hammer-struck coins issued by all the other Spanish Mints, these pieces stood out in commerce and were readily accepted for their facial value, unlike the hammer-struck pieces which were always being clipped and filed, forcing merchants to weigh coins in order to calculate their value. This is particularly important when one considers that the Spanish real-8 was the standard of the day for world commerce, circulating freely even in the United States up until 1857 when finally prohibited.

The Royal Mill Mint in Segovia was the most technologically advanced Spanish mint until 1700 when modern screw presses were installed at the mints in Seville, because of its proximity to the port where metals arrived, and Madrid, because King Philip V was beginning a centralization plan. This plan eventually culminated in the closure of the mints in Toledo, Granada, Valladolid, Burgos, Cuenca, La Coruña and the Old Segovia Mint in 1730, though many of these had already ceased production.

Also, looky here: http://www.usagold-jewelry.com/pendants/coin-pendants.html
 

PICKY, PICKY,PICKY,
What I ment to say was that NO gold coins were minted other than those minted from 1568 until the 1700's anywhere except in Granada. Yes there were 2 mints.
I stand corrected.
Anything else you have on your mind?
Peg leg
 

Peg, Leg, I just want to know where you keep getting your mis-information, as you have changed your story several times in this thread. You might try a good book on the subject such as Sedgwicks. If you can read several good books, by real people that are knowledgable, you will get clearer on this subject. There were several if not many mints in Europe, Spain mainly, and the New world, Mexico, Peru, and Columbia for some, minting those coins. Remember the Internet does not have everything ever written on it-far from it. It has to be put on there. Plus anybody can put an article on the internet and some people think its the truth. Far from it usually.
 

Stevemc,
I sent you a scan of 2 of the Gold II escudos yesterday. Did you get them?
Here is something else to consider.
I believe that these coins were some of the very first gold coins minted in Granada Spain.
Here is my reasoning.
How much would a Gold II escudo weigh?
As we all know a II escudo would be 1/4 of 28 grams = 7.0 grams.
But how many actually were 7.0 grams. Most have been found to weigh less at about 6.6 to 6.8 grams. There are 2 reasons for this, 1 reason is that they were not that accurate with their weghing, which is not true and 2 there was a little shaved off.
One of my coins weighs 6.9 grams and the other is 7.1 grams. Both are a little on the heavy side. This tells me that they had to be amoung the very first Gold II escudos minted similar to proto-types.
After production was started then they were UNDERWEIGHT.
Of course there will be those that will find fault in my thinking and reasoning so lets here what you have to say-I will not be offended with what anyone has to say-good or bad.
I invite your comments.
STEVEMC
If you can will you post the scans for me so everyone can see the 2 coins.
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

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