🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Gold cross with emeralds

[oc plumber]

Trying this in another forum hopefully is better suited here
Hi everyone ,first post here.
Trying to help out my father in law, he has a gold cross with emeralds in it he believes came from a Spanish shipwreck or possibly a sunk nazi u boat , I did some research and read about the atocha that Mel fisher discovered and the piece seems to very similar. It does not seem to have any id marks and comes with no paper work but my fil swears he has seen it before in a show talking about treasure linked to some sunken nazi uboat in Florida keys. Any ways was hoping somebody could shed some light/info or at least point us in the right direction. Thank you

 

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[ARC]

Your the expert here .....Have you ever seen a "Pin" ( used as a fastener) in such a elaborate 1700s Spanish piece like this before ?

I have seen this yes.
And seen things ...much... much older with it as well.

 

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[RTR]

I have seen this yes.
And seen things ...much... much older with it as well.

WELL...lets see some PIX. ! of same

 

[ARC]

I can post things that are 500 years old that still aren't able to be copied exact today... sheesh the craftsmanship... most are not aware of techniques that existed and many even scoff at some of the ideas used in early manipulation of metals... especially precious ones... which they were obsessed with...
Sheesh what am i talking about... WE still are

 

[oc plumber]

Thanks for the additional pix. But I'm still confused."The Fasteners of the day" in FINE 1700s Spanish jewelry was not a screw or Pin that I'm aware of . Their fastener was of Gold ,and solid Gold in a piece such as yours..
The people at Mel Fishers museums could tell you w/in a few seconds whats, what(send them some Pix.).Hope it is the "real deal"

It appears it’s a “pin” of gold punched through the swivel with a hole for a rope to hang from necklace , I will try to make a video and upload

 

[ARC]

WELL...lets see some PIX. ! of same

RTR... you are thinking this is "Spanish shipwreck treasure from the 16-1700's...

This will not and will never be confirmed.

This MAY be an antique is the point... IT can be from that period as well.. but this does not mean it ever was on a ship...
VERY FEW crosses of gold and emeralds have been found in the sea... but this only represents a VERY SMALL portion of craftsmanship from a very narrow chink in time and an even narrower type of maker(s)

 

[ARC]

WELL...lets see some PIX. ! of same

ok... i will post a picture of verified Spanish crosses with emeralds from various G results.

Note the bail shape... indicative of Spanish... this piece... is like i said... 100% Spanish.

These are not antique.
Which leads to the possibility of the OP's piece being more modern... but again... there is a chance.

 

[RTR]

RTR... you are thinking this is "Spanish treasure from the 16-1700's...

This will not and will never be confirmed.

This MAY be an antique is the point... IT can be from that period as well.. but this does not mean it ever was on a ship...
VERY FEW crosses of gold and emeralds have been found in the sea... but this only represents a VERY SMALL portion of craftsmanship from a very narrow chink in time and an even narrower type of maker(s)

Read his OP in the other thread https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/spanish-gold-cross-with-emeralds.679442/

 

[ARC]

We are looking for 20-22+ karat... then... the content of copper silver and trace metals.

 

[RTR]

ok... i will post a picture of verified Spanish crosses with emeralds from various G results.

Note the bail shape... indicative of Spanish... this piece... is like i said... 100% Spanish.

View attachment 2067041
View attachment 2067042

These are not antique.
Which leads to the possibility of the OP's piece being more modern... but again... there is a chance.

Thats cool but where is ...."THE PIN" ?

 

[ARC]

Thats cool but where is ...."THE PIN" ?

Did you not see what i was referring to... i am not looking for pin... you search ! ! !
I mean sheesh man do something ! !

 

[ARC]

As for me... my 20 cents is out here...

Now.... back to my date with my movie ... My Stella Artois... And that woman i live with.

:P

 

[oc plumber]

Well... if not here... make sure it is someone with above average to expert antique jewelry knowledge AND someone with no stake in the game.
IOW's... don't count your money while still sitting at the poker table... more than one opinion to the piece as a whole is a must if a true antique.

There are those out there like myself who also know where i am going with this.

I find this / your piece and things of its possible age group and style... very interesting to say the least...
And have since i was a kid.

I get what you are saying, there are a lot of scammers/crooks/dishonest people in the world that would try to take advantage of a situation, as a plumber I deal with a lot of folks in desperate situations who get taken advantage of by scandalous plumbers, I will definitely be getting 2nd 3rd and 4th opinions just to make sure everybody is on the same page, and all of the facts are on the table

 

[ARC]

As for me... my 20 cents is out here...

Now.... back to my date with my movie ... My Stella Artois... And that woman i live with.

:P

Damnit... she just read this.... ok so back to my date with my movie and beer,

:P

 

[ARC]

I get what you are saying, there are a lot of scammers/crooks/dishonest people in the world that would try to take advantage of a situation, as a plumber I deal with a lot of folks in desperate situations who get taken advantage of by scandalous plumbers, I will definitely be getting 2nd 3rd and 4th opinions just to make sure everybody is on the same page, and all of the facts are on the table

Not just that... but people who really don't have a clue what they are REALLY looking at..... REALLY.

There is a BIG line sometimes between actually knowing... and thinking they know.

 

[smokeythecat]

ARC is correct. And coin dealers sometimes have the machines that will give out the correct metals content. I'd call ahead to see if the place you will take it to has the machine to test instead of wasting a trip. And like he said, NO scratch test. Walk away from that store.

And it better be over 20 karat to be very old , but even that is not definitive. A more modern one will be like 14 karat or so. Come to think of it, in my limited experience I never saw a screw/pin on the pictures of the ancient Spanish ones either.

It is THEORETICALLY possible the pin and bail was a later repair to an older piece, butnothing to hold your breath about. It is a nice piece (as long as real gold).

Let us know what you find out.

 

[oc plumber]

Not just that... but people who really don't have a clue what they are REALLY looking at..... REALLY.

There is a BIG line sometimes between actually knowing... and thinking they know.

There’s quite a few plumbers like that as well

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

There’s quite a few plumbers like that as well

Sorry oc, but I couldn't resist!

 

[cannonball]

Trying this in another forum hopefully is better suited here
Hi everyone ,first post here.
Trying to help out my father in law, he has a gold cross with emeralds in it he believes came from a Spanish shipwreck or possibly a sunk nazi u boat , I did some research and read about the atocha that Mel fisher discovered and the piece seems to very similar. It does not seem to have any id marks and comes with no paper work but my fil swears he has seen it before in a show talking about treasure linked to some sunken nazi uboat in Florida keys. Any ways was hoping somebody could shed some light/info or at least point us in the right direction. Thank you

Follow arc suggestions

 

[unclemac]

what is involved with testing the emeralds for source of origin?

 

[ARC]

what is involved with testing the emeralds for source of origin?

There are two main methods used to determine the origin of an emerald, the same as with most other gems. One is Raman spectroscopy, which any professional lab uses.