florida group trying to get permit to remove Doc Noss Gold

[victorio1]

sfloto, sorry about the confusion. What I meant was of the 7 sites that Doc claimed to his family this may be a site. The previously attached photo was found in their personal photo archives. I of course can not be certain but I did find it curious that the photos you posted matched photos that Doc Noss took 70 years ago. You can decide for yourself.



cheers

-alex

 

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[gollum]

Gollum,

All of your question boil down to ……why would people lie

I have done some small amount of research about VP but I cannot claim to be an expert

How did you hear Fiege and Berlette passed a polygraph (I don’t want an answer) was it first hand, Documented or as I suspect a carefully conceived urban legend.

I don’t know any of the people in this story, But I feel I know human nature
1 Given the chance people will enhance a story if it means Money, fame or their 5 minutes in the spotlight
2 People rarely check facts, they hear something that sounds true and the next moment it is

Ask yourself this question … If you found a treasure of this magnitude and it was in an area that you could not control access How many people would you involve?

Correct me if I am wrong but Doc and Ova were divorced a few years after the find?

I am going to wrap up (need to actually work) and ask a question that nobody answered

Why in the middle of the depression, when gasoline is difficult to come by, would a man drive 140 mile RT to go deer hunting. From what I can determine 3 to 4 hours each way

SFloto

SFloto,

No, it does not boil down to "Why would people lie?" What it boils down to is ..... "Why would people lie until their dying day and fight tooth and nail for something, when they could have moved on and made more money elsewhere?"

Doc kept trying to get back into the cave system until he was killed in 1949. Ova kept trying to get back in until her death in 1980. Terry Delonas and his brother are still trying to get back in. Not the actions of people who know that the story is BS. Very simple. If you can't grasp that, then ..... I can't say it any clearer.

As far as the polygraph tests, read the book "Treasure of Victoria Peak" by Phil Khoury (one of Ova Noss' Attorneys). He exhaustively investigated the claims of Fiege and Berlette because they were rival claimants to the Noss Treasure Trove. If he could have proven the that the tests never happened, or that they had been found to be liars, it would have greatly helped the Noss' Case. He found that the tests had happened and both men were truthful. Before making statements like:

How did you hear Fiege and Berlette passed a polygraph (I don’t want an answer) was it first hand, Documented or as I suspect a carefully conceived urban legend.

..... you might want to read up on a subject. Tough titty if you don't want an answer. There it was.

You seem to think that you have all the answers, but all you are doing is ignoring what doesn't fit your little theory. Its' okay. I see it all the time. Just go over to the Lost Dutchman Area. HAHAHA

I don’t know any of the people in this story, But I feel I know human nature
1 Given the chance people will enhance a story if it means Money, fame or their 5 minutes in the spotlight
2 People rarely check facts, they hear something that sounds true and the next moment it is

1. ABSOLUTELY TRUE!

2. In many cases that is true as well, but not me. After reading the story, I made it a point to talk to Tom Whittle, and I already knew Dr Lambert Dolphin. But I guess you know better than them. Please remind me of how much time you have spent with the Noss Family? Is it less than a second? I thought so. Interesting that you can make such sweeping assessments of peoples' characters without having spent a single minute in their presence. See, I have never personally met any of the Noss Family, but I know people who did know them quite well. People whose opinions I respect greatly and trust.

You still haven't answered the part about all the family and friends that assisted in bringing out gold bars and other objects from VP? I guess you have it right, and they were all lying? HAHAHA

What it all boils down to is that you should do a little more in depth research on the stories you intend to hunt down.

Best-Mike

 

[uthunter]

All I know is what my father and uncle would say, when I was a child and up to my early teens, at family get togethers. I never bothered to keep up to date with the whole deal, because I was always told it was all a bunch of mis-information cover stories to confuse people, mostly our allies and the Russians. It was an originally a screw up that worked quite well for the military. My father said that the project name was different than the ones they used for human trials and has not been released, he never said what the project name was either.

As I said, the panda's heart is most similar a human heart in size, more so than a monkey or dog heart. When they ejected the test subjects, most test were done before they did any human trials, they pushed/ejected them out of an airplane with varying degrees of protection at 100,000+ plus feet, the speed of the airplane plus that of re-entry into the lower atmosphere is going to heat you up real quick. Look at the protective gear that was used when the first human test jump was made from that altitude, how did they know what was needed to protect him from the altitude, the speed and the re-entry into the lower atmosphere.

Also, in the 1940s, there was no such thing as PETA. If you use animals as test subjects, which the military did on a regular basis, you are going to keep it as quiet as possible. The military still uses animals as test subjects until the project is deemed safe for human tests. The items found at the Roswell crash site in 1947 were the remains of the test subjects, the parachute, and other items related to the safety system, which failed miserably. He said that the ejection system caught a wind that blew it over twenty miles off course from the intended landing site. Other tests that day also blew off course as well. There was one test where they recovered the parachute system only, the rest was never found. There were three test subjects and the safety gear they were fitted with. So somewhere North and East of Roswell is the remains of that particular test. They did use Mylar as a type of protection (hence the report of a shiny metallic material that was very flexible), since they knew that it helped protect a subject from some types of radiation, especially at higher altitude. Only three of all the tests did any test subject live through the ejection process to landing, only five animals lived.

I am sorry my posts about Roswell took this topic of the original subject.

 

[gollum]

UTHUNTER,

This is TNet. If things didn't go off topic here once in a while we would all go nuts! HAHAHA

Actually, the closest thing to a human heart is a Pig's Heart. That is why Pig Heart Valves are used in human heart valve transplants.

Best-Mike

 

[victorio1]

Gollum I thought this may help your "discussion", with floto. Below is an excerpt from The Gold House book II page 50.


More information concerning the existence of gold bars inside Victorio Peak appears in a document generated by the government. According to the official “Lie Detector Examination Report” submitted by James H. McNevin on September 13, 1961. Major General W.M. Canterbury Commander at Holloman AFB had personally requested Fiege’s test. The test was authorized by the “District Commander, OSI District 17” and was “conducted from 1320 to 1435 on September 5, 1961, at Holloman AFB, New Mexico.” The 17th OSI District is situated at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the second largest base in the United States. McNevin was a “Lie Detector Examiner” from the 17th Office of Special Investigations (OSI) at Kirtland AFB. Whether or not the FBI and the Treasury Department were also involved is not known; however, it is not unlikely they were somehow involved in the planning, sanctioning and implementation of the examination.
Fiege “was informed of the nature of the offense and advised of his rights under Article 31 and acknowledged that he understood his rights.” The polygraph examination undergone by Leonard Vernon Fiege and Thomas Berlett produced the following results:
Did you find bricks in a cave in the San Andres Mountains in November? Yes.
Is your statement concerning the finding of the bricks completely true? Yes.
Did you or any of your companions bring any of the bricks out of the cave? No.
Did Berlett also see these bricks in the cave? Yes.
After an analysis of the charts pertaining to this examination, it is the opinion of the examiner that the Examinee was truthful in his answers to the above questions. —James H. McNevin
~
One question remains concerning the polygraph testing; what was the meaning of “nature of the offense” and why was it necessary to advise Fiege “of his rights under Article 31” prior to the examination? If Fiege, Berlett, and their two other friends were guilty of a crime, what was the nature of the offence? The group claimed they were hunting the day they found the cave entrance at Victorio Peak, and according to Shinkle, it was a designated hunting area. Was it a crime for them to enter the cave, or could it be they were charged with a violation of the Gold Reserve Act for possessing the gold simply by picking up some of the bars? Apparently there were charges made, but what they were is unknown. And there was yet another incident that centered on Fiege’s credibility, an event that took place at the home of Thayer Snipes in El Paso, Texas.


" The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about"

cheers,

-alex

 

[gollum]

Thanks Alex,

Yes, those are very cleverly forged documents you have presented there! A fine example of a "carefully conceived urban legend."

I believe that when the higher authorities learned about Fiege and Berlette's entry into the caves, they didn't believe their story about not taking out any gold bars and filed charges against them pursuaqnt to FDR's 1933 Gold confiscation Order. Notice how the polygrapher was careful not to use words like "gold bars" "bars" "ingots" or anything else that might connote something valuable. Do you think the person administering the polygraph test came up with that verbiage on his own? HIGHLY UNLIKELY! Why, also, didn't the polygrapher ask what those "BRICKS" were made of? Maybe because they already knew and didn't want to leave any official trail! Just like in Khoury's Book, when he spoke with Fiege personally. Fiege was very careful not to say what he believed the bars were composed of. The Government/Military has NEVER admitted that what was under VP had any intrinsic value.

Best-Mike

 

[extractor]

 

[King4x4]

If I read this right the test took 1 hour and 15 min. and they only asked 4 questions?

 

[gollum]

If I read this right the test took 1 hour and 15 min. and they only asked 4 questions?

Hey King,

You did read it wrong. Read Section# 3 in its' entirety. Before the four questions, it clearly states that the "RELEVANT QUESTIONS WERE...."

Best-Mike

 

[King4x4]

My bad, I see why the test took so long. But they don't say how many bricks (bars) they saw. this may have been on of the stashes that Doc left around the place. Plus Jolly should have picked them up after the shooting.

 

[King4x4]

sfloto, sorry about the confusion. What I meant was of the 7 sites that Doc claimed to his family this may be a site. The previously attached photo was found in their personal photo archives. I of course can not be certain but I did find it curious that the photos you posted matched photos that Doc Noss took 70 years ago. You can decide for yourself.



cheers

-alex

I guess this is Willy's site that they talk about. do you have any more pic's of caves from doc?

 

[King4x4]

CPTBIL or Alex, how many sites are there? how many had gold bars? is there any chance that Doc's or willies Sites have already been found and looted? more cave pictures please.

sfloto, sorry about the confusion. What I meant was of the 7 sites that Doc claimed to his family this may be a site. The previously attached photo was found in their personal photo archives. I of course can not be certain but I did find it curious that the photos you posted matched photos that Doc Noss took 70 years ago. You can decide for yourself.



cheers

-alex

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I believe that Doc Noss found treasure, and later the Army with heavy equipment took all the treasures. The wood that the Army used, is still there.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

This is one of my sons, George:

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I agre ewith #97.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I agree with #97. I live in Bridgeport Connecticut and have no plans to visit the site, I want to know what did the Army did with the treasure.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I agree with #97, I live in Bridgeport Connecticut and have no plans to visit the site. What did the Army do with the treasures?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Maybe the question would be better put if we asked:

What did the Army personnel do with the treasure??

I'm convinced that the treasure was stolen from the Noss' - but I tend to think that the "Army" per se, as a unit, may not have been as much involved as the personnel on that base - were involved - and Uncle Sam may not have benefitted from it at the time. My thoughts being that the base personnel took the loot, and then, by the time the Noss family complained to the Army, those folks on the base had already made their
fortunes. (base commander, maybe - though some think that the money was used for bribes in Southeast Asia - Laos, Cambodia, etc.).

I also firmly believe that - if any group is NOT representing the Noss family - they have no right to anything - including being allowed to look.

Beth

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I agree with Beth. Army staff station at White Sand took the treasure. Who did they gave it to?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Personally - and this is just an opinion - nothing that has facts to back it up - but - I think whoever was involved, divided it up, hid it until they
all left the Army, and then went and retrieved it.

Split up into however many people were involved - it would make it much easier to get rid of. They could have even gone off-base and buried it, just like Noss did. And, of course, there is always the black market - I'm sure someone would have paid to get their hands on the loot.

Beth