Dutchman's Caches

[Matthew Roberts]

Everyone has their own favorite information source and set of clues. No one can say a clue is bad or good, some are better than others because of their source. Even then, the clue could have been altered by the normal passing along of that clue by many individuals. Personally I am drawn to the Holmes account because of the closeness of the source to the actual happenings. But also, I am drawn to what some have called the German clues because of the closeness to Waltz and the things that actually transpired.

I first knew these clues as part of Rhinehart Petrasch's notes. About 40 years or so ago they began to be referred to as the German clues because they were an attempt by Rhinehart and Julia Thomas to remember what Waltz had told them in German. Both Rhinehart and Julia spoke some German but it was neither ones first language. Both having been born in America. Herman understood German more well and acted as interpreter. Joseph Gilmore, a German partner of Herman and Gottfreid Petrasch also helped to interpret the remembrances.

People who don't understand the context of the German clues criticize them because they aren't perfect German grammar, punctuation, sentence structure and text. But the fact is, why would they have been ? They were the best remembering of what Waltz may have said in German and neither Rhiney nor Julia understanding fluent German. They gave their best recollection and Herman tried to piece together the words as best he could.

What they came up with was the best attempt at what they believed Waltz said and was trying to say. It is not and never was intended as a grammatically correct document of Waltz exact words. I believe it to be in my opinion the closest to the real things Waltz tried to tell Rhinehart and Julia about his mine and caches.

 

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[Doc4261]

Thanks rk,
That helps. I have not read that book, so not able to give informed response.
There are others here that may be in better position to speak to that.

Three red spots on left side of the hill/canyon looking north from his mine.
There are two mines in there that Waltz worked.

The 2 mines are not that far apart, more difference in elevation, which could impact the views.
You might have to go in and check it out

Thanks again for posting the response.
Idahodutch

What I like is my spot has 3 red dacite outcrops. One where I camped. The farthest north one. Then one below my cave I found and one in-between. I took samples of all 3. But now I'll have to go back by the one in the middle and snoop around some. Have pics of 2 of the 3 outcrops from my videos. Swear I had pics of the one at my camp, but can't seem to find it.

This as below my cave. Also can see the carem knocked over in the middle of the water crevasse. The set of rocks on the left that don't fit there.


This is the one in the middle from my camp.

 

[Idahodutch]

A question came up concerning the Dutchman?s caches.

Of the 3 that I have read about, the 2 smaller ones were retrieved by Waltz prior to him getting sick and later dying.
The 3rd cache, which was the bigger of the 3, was $75,000 of gold.
75,000 / $20 = 3,750 ounces, then times by (31.1 grams / 1000) = 116.625 kilos, then x 2.2 = 256 pounds gold.

I think Waltz also said it was about 2 bushels, so sounds like it is higrade ore.
Pure gold of 2 bushels would be considerably more.
I think I did the math correctly?

This big cache, Waltz said he put on top of the filled in outcrop mine. Then he said he covered it all so that no trace was left of the workings.

P. S. This post was for Ponteach.
If anybody else cans add information, we would all probably like it

 

[coazon de oro]

A question came up concerning the Dutchman?s caches.

Of the 3 that I have read about, the 2 smaller ones were retrieved by Waltz prior to him getting sick and later dying.
The 3rd cache, which was the bigger of the 3, was $75,000 of gold.
75,000 / $20 = 3,750 ounces, then times by (31.1 grams / 1000) = 116.625 kilos, then x 2.2 = 256 pounds gold.

I think Waltz also said it was about 2 bushels, so sounds like it is higrade ore.
Pure gold of 2 bushels would be considerably more.
I think I did the math correctly?

This big cache, Waltz said he put on top of the filled in outcrop mine. Then he said he covered it all so that no trace was left of the workings.

P. S. This post was for Ponteach.
If anybody else cans add information, we would all probably like it

Howdy Russ,

I took a different route, since I am not that good with math, but it will give you an idea of how many mules are needed.

According to the assay report done on what Waltz left behind, his ore assayed at $110,000/ton @ $20.67/oz. That comes out to 5321 troy oz, or 365 pounds of gold, leaving 1,635 pounds of quartz dust.

The ore cache of $75,000 @ $20.67/oz, would have 3,628 troy oz, or 249 pounds of gold.

Bear with me, if 365 pounds of gold multiplied by 5.479 comes out to one ton, then 249 pounds of gold, multiplied by 5.479 would show the cache to be somewhere around 1,364 pounds of gold ore, or six jack loads.

Homar

 

[Idahodutch]

Homar,
Your math skills are plenty good, but as you said, we took different routes.
According to Waltz, the ore under his bed was one of the smaller caches, and those caches were from the inclined shaft mine or old Peralta mine (white quartz gold ore).
The ore from the outcrop mine, according to Waltz was more gold than quartz.
If I am not mistaken, to be more gold than quartz, it would assay out at over 1/2 ton, per ton.

I was only going by type of ore Waltz said.

 

[markmar]

This is the ledge where the LDM outcrop is located. The juniper is in the middle, can you guess where the mine is?

 

[skyhawk1251]

This is the ledge where the LDM outcrop is located. The juniper is in the middle, can you guess where the mine is?

I see the juniper. I also see what looks like the rectangular opening to a shaft that has been "capped." An interesting image.

 

[Idahodutch]

I see the juniper. I also see what looks like the rectangular opening to a shaft that has been "capped." An interesting image.

Good morning Skyhawk,
I also can see what appears to be, as you say.

Not trying to crush anyone’s dreams, but the fact that it can be seen, should tell us enough.
Waltz said when he covered up the outcrop mine, that he left no trace of the workings.
There are other clues that seem to rule out the region.

In my opinion, There could be a gold mine in there, but according to clues, just not LDM.

 

[Idahodutch]

Good morning Skyhawk,
I also can see what appears to be, as you say.

Not trying to crush anyone’s dreams, but the fact that it can be seen, should tell us enough.
Waltz said when he covered up the outcrop mine, that he left no trace of the workings.
There are other clues that seem to rule out the region.

In my opinion, There could be a gold mine in there, but according to clues, just not LDM.

Waltz gave a clue for confirming the region of the LDM. If it is the correct region, a special view of four peaks needs to be available, but it is not available. The claimant said the four peaks clue is BS, and somehow I was able to fabricate it.

The actual LDM region will match up with clues, including the special view of 4-Peaks.
Sincerely,
Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

Good morning Skyhawk,
I also can see what appears to be, as you say.

Not trying to crush anyone’s dreams, but the fact that it can be seen, should tell us enough.
Waltz said when he covered up the outcrop mine, that he left no trace of the workings.
There are other clues that seem to rule out the region.

In my opinion, There could be a gold mine in there, but according to clues, just not LDM.

Waltz's statement would been valid at the time he covered the mine and not now after 130 years of exposion to elements. How many dust you believe would be remained on a rocky shelf, where almost all the water from the cliff's face is running upon? There is a miracle the rocks are still in place, maybe because are big and are fixed there by the edge of the shaft.

 

[Idahodutch]

Waltz's statement would been valid at the time he covered the mine and not now after 130 years of exposion to elements. How many dust you believe would be remained on a rocky shelf, where almost all the water from the cliff's face is running upon? There is a miracle the rocks are still in place, maybe because are big and are fixed there by the edge of the shaft.

So are you saying Waltz covered up his outcrop mine with stuff that has weathered away now?
You claim your spot is the LDM ..... then show your search. Show which of Waltz? clues fit.
Not cropped images. In other words, it is a big claim to make, so back it up with what you have, and let?s see

 

[markmar]

So are you saying Waltz covered up his outcrop mine with stuff that has weathered away now?
You claim your spot is the LDM ..... then show your search. Show which of Waltz? clues fit.
Not cropped images. In other words, it is a big claim to make, so back it up with what you have, and let?s see

Follow the clues and see it for yourself. The pictures are to see what you should looking for. Take it as a tip in your research. Not many would help you in this manner.

 

[Idahodutch]

Follow the clues and see it for yourself. The pictures are to see what you should looking for. Take it as a tip in your research. Not many would help you in this manner.

Nice try Markmar
Empty words do not back up your search claim.
You want the fame as the finder of the LDM, you have to show it .... not me

The game changed long ago, but our mindset has not kept up. Before, one could file a claim, work it, and then reveal if so choose.
Now, no filing claims, no mining .... nobody to take your fame from you, if you tell.

Without showing back up, this is just another unfounded found it claim. In my opinion

 

[markmar]

Nice try Markmar
Empty words do not back up your search claim.
You want the fame as the finder of the LDM, you have to show it .... not me

The game changed long ago, but our mindset has not kept up. Before, one could file a claim, work it, and then reveal if so choose.
Now, no filing claims, no mining .... nobody to take your fame from you, if you tell.

Without showing back up, this is just another unfounded found it claim. In my opinion

You are right. Keep searching.

 

[Idahodutch]

You are right. Keep searching.

Thanks Markmar, you too.

 

[markmar]

Thanks Markmar, you too.

Always, for another lost mines and treasures.

 

[Idahodutch]

It's Ok Somehiker. I can live without this. Most of my posts are not addressed to someone so nobody is obligated to answer to me. Everyone is free to waste its time in the way like it . But don't forget, if you ever find a rich mine in the Superstitions, please post your spot in large pictures to can find out where it is, and a detailed explanation of your research, in regards to remain all the treasure hunters happy and grateful.

Markmar,
I hope you find what you seek.

Sincerely,
Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

Markmar,
I hope you find what you seek.

Sincerely,
Idahodutch

Thanks

 

[markmar]

 

[somehiker]

This one, by a young Canadian couple, shows what the effort will allow you to see along the way to the top.



But I don't think anyone believes the Dutchman's caches are anywhere up on the Flatiron.