DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[sdcfia]

Real, Amigo, very good point, but do you think different time, could have different effects,back then there were no modern ways of reaching area's, I don't really know, it might be an important
clue or not for someone, np

I think the implication is simply that there might have been a road good enough to move the drill rig somewhere close to the cave.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Are you referring to the cave in Hackberry Draw?

 

[sdcfia]

Are you referring to the cave in Hackberry Draw?

or wherever Willie's cave is. I guess Hackberry Draw is on the table.

 

[UncleMatt]

In Book 1 they show the location of the Hackberry Cave, and even photos from inside and out of it...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Np They used animals , which could access places that a modern rig could't

 

[UncleMatt]

I can't help but wonder if Doc was reacting to the news that Buster Ward was leading a group of ten trucks to Willie's cave to remove all the gold. Supposedly the convoy of trucks was halted in Hackberry Draw when Ward proclaimed he couldn't go through with it, and then cancelled completely when a scope reflection was seen from the top of Granite Peak. I wonder if that was Doc up there behind the scope! It wasn't Willie, as he could not ride very well, and deputies chased the gunman for miles. They said he was an expert rider and knew the country very well. I wonder if Doc was planning to scare them all off, but was seen from below and then chased...

 

[UncleMatt]

I asked earlier if anyone had samples of Doc's handwriting, but got no response. Trying one more time.

Also, I'm curious if anyone has any photos of Granite Spring when it was full of water. Has anyone been out there recently?

 

[BIGSCOTT]

The first ''Patened'' truck mounted rig was built by George E Failing around 1930, the rig' they moved with animals could access very rough places but they took time to set up and tear down.

 

[markmar]

I think Doc was trying to find all the locations on the map he had. He told Ova he wanted to find all 7 of them. And that is why he wasn't satisfied with anything he might have already found, to him success meant finding it all.

I believe Noss would been satisfied finding one of the seven . The Willie's lure at VP was just an aperitif .

 

[UncleMatt]

No, he wasn't satisfied with only one. Read the book...

 

[UncleMatt]

After I started reading I realized just how uninformed I had become from people who were guessing most of the time when it comes to VP and the Caballos. I'm a little bogged down in book two in all the detail they list for the military heist though.

 

[johnmark29020]

johnmark29020, I am sure theres some kind of a record some were, I do not know the name of the company, but it was a big company, and the story for what ever reason was important info, or I
would not have made a note of it. np

When a company drills a hole. Isnt it required to file a permit, and. Location. I was wondering if it could be found in county records. Then again that regulation my not have existed then. I didnt mean no offense if I caused any. I read what everyone write with a great deal of reverence.
After all im not the experienced hunter here. Only been at it a short time. Puzzles is my talent.

 

[UncleMatt]

I need to clarify that the Ward-Douthit ground level cave in the Hackberry Draw was supposedly a "stache cave" where they would move small amounts of gold to have nearby for convenience. Their main finds were not at that location evidently.

added later: But it occurred to me that you wouldn't need ten trucks to haul away a "small amount of gold", so why would Ward have been intending to do so if there was nothing there to move that required ten trucks? Why drive up a draw with heavy trucks when you have a road right there to drive on! Maybe there was initially more in that cave than is thought there was...

 

[BIGSCOTT]

yes one account i remember reading said he really did find it stashed in a crevice and moved it to a cave.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

johnmark29020 I sometimes look up oil leases for people and it allways turns into a history lesson, ive found that as far back as the 20's and 30's if field wasnt very productive there arent many records, there are places in texas that i know hundreds of wells were drilled on three or four sections of land and the records only show a few, fields that were very productive there were definitely permits and the land was measured down to the square foot, I think Fred Drolte was drilling only a hundred or so feet, under the guise of looking for water, in cummins book ''lure of the caballos'' a really good read, he says that Drolte hadnt paid the guy that was drilling for him and one day when Drolte wasnt there the bit quit drilling so he pulled it out of the hole, (p.o.o.h. as we say in the patch),and no wonder it woudnt dig it was cloged with gold, the guy covered the hole and moved the rig and held its location ransom for his pay and probably a bonus.

 

[UncleMatt]

That gold covered bit comes from "Drolte's Hole" which is east of Hackberry Draw.

 

[johnmark29020]

johnmark29020 I sometimes look up oil leases for people and it allways turns into a history lesson, ive found that as far back as the 20's and 30's if field wasnt very productive there arent many records, there are places in texas that i know hundreds of wells were drilled on three or four sections of land and the records only show a few, fields that were very productive there were definitely permits and the land was measured down to the square foot, I think Fred Drolte was drilling only a hundred or so feet, under the guise of looking for water, in cummins book ''lure of the caballos'' a really good read, he says that Drolte hadnt paid the guy that was drilling for him and one day when Drolte wasnt there the bit quit drilling so he pulled it out of the hole, (p.o.o.h. as we say in the patch),and no wonder it woudnt dig it was cloged with gold, the guy covered the hole and moved the rig and held its location ransom for his pay and probably a bonus.

He sounds like a smart man.

 

[Not Peralta]

Np They used animals , which could access places that a modern rig could't

Real, Amigo, that makes more than perfect sense to me know, I was not that familiar with drilling rigs, thank you.np

 

[Not Peralta]

One of the things I want to mention, is if you are camping in or around the caballo's, at night, you could here very strange things going on, for instance, there are sites that have been found containing
pentagrams painted on the rocks, with animal heads and lots of different symbols. people doing religious ceremonies , so do be cautious , I ran into a few of these sites, but not the people, but you never know. this type of stuff is never discussed, but it does occur, just watch for these type of things,be safe first. np

 

[UncleMatt]

The second book talks about "a theft" that was investigated by Congress from the Bloody Hands/Cottonwoods area, where supposedly a tunnel was accessed that led to the caverns below VP. There is also talk of tunnels that lead from VP to Geronimo Peak. Problem is, the Bloody Hands/Cottonwoods location as indicated in the book is about a mile from VP as the crow flies. So a tunnel extended for a mile to VP? REALLY?

Unless there is some kind of freak tunnel/cavern system in the general area of VP that is naturally occurring, I find these claims to be highly questionable that tunnels would have been dug and used by the Spanish of that kind of length. And even if they were closed with explosives, they would still exist to be re-opened...